Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#61 Jun 28, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Everybody has agenda. The Christian agenda can be threatening also.
Oh, no, Pearl - why aren't there any websites on the Christian's hidden agenda? I think the Christians are censoring the internet! JK

Is it: to control the masses? Christianity REALLY likes to tell other people what to do. I like to tell people what to do as well, but I don't really care if you do it or not. Christians follow up to see if you are still doing what they told you. A big group of people who will control themselves is a great asset to a country's government, right? Don't go around undermining Christianity, it's doing it's job.

I take responsibility for controlling myself - religion is not useful to me.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#62 Jun 28, 2013
William wrote:
"The words queer and gay once had completely different definitions than today and by all means be careful not to use the horrible word homosexual. Political and ethnic cleansing is well under way."
It is very strange that homosexuals do not want to be called "homosexuals."
Maybe it's because the word did not exist until 1869. Like the 30,000 plus protestant denominations with made up names, the word was totally made up by a man. And a lot of those denominations were also made up in the 19th Century.
Dave P

United States

#63 Jun 28, 2013
Thought. How did the civil rights battle play out? Court decided years of discrimination had to end. States would not voluntarily obey, so in comes the Feds with water hoses and guns.

Gay marriage will be legal in 20-25 states, west coast, upper Midwest and northeast. South of Mason-Dixon, rural Midwest no chance. We then have "3/5" citizens again, less than full. Eventually someone either caves or bring in the troops.

As for churches, most marriages are traditionally performed in a church building. That 5% want acceptance do they not? Does anyone truly think some of them will not attempt to be married in a church? Think no one who is using gay marriage to further their agenda will put up a gay couple to attempt it?

Think a gay couple won't try the RCC on this?

Why is this such a big deal? It is an attempt to force people of faith to accept, recognize, and perform something that has been deemed an abomination from ancient times. It is a behavior that keeps one from eternal life. Christians are told to abstain from and reject such behavior. We aren't to tolerate sin in the church, and speak against sin in the world.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#64 Jun 28, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Thought. How did the civil rights battle play out? Court decided years of discrimination had to end. States would not voluntarily obey, so in comes the Feds with water hoses and guns.
Gay marriage will be legal in 20-25 states, west coast, upper Midwest and northeast. South of Mason-Dixon, rural Midwest no chance. We then have "3/5" citizens again, less than full. Eventually someone either caves or bring in the troops.
As for churches, most marriages are traditionally performed in a church building. That 5% want acceptance do they not? Does anyone truly think some of them will not attempt to be married in a church? Think no one who is using gay marriage to further their agenda will put up a gay couple to attempt it?
Think a gay couple won't try the RCC on this?
Why is this such a big deal? It is an attempt to force people of faith to accept, recognize, and perform something that has been deemed an abomination from ancient times. It is a behavior that keeps one from eternal life. Christians are told to abstain from and reject such behavior. We aren't to tolerate sin in the church, and speak against sin in the world.
Does having or procuring an abortion keep one from eternal life? Abortion is pretty much a heterosexual activity with over 50 million having been performed in just the United States. Does divorce and remarriage keep one from eternal life? Divorce and remarriage are pretty much heterosexual activities with a rate of about 50%.
johnny

United States

#65 Jun 29, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, you should go underground, or even maybe the closet, we will let you know when it's okay to come out.
How will that make any differce

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#66 Jun 29, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe it's because the word did not exist until 1869. Like the 30,000 plus protestant denominations with made up names, the word was totally made up by a man. And a lot of those denominations were also made up in the 19th Century.
OK - are you saying that homosexuals didn't exist before 1869? I'd say "English" was a little late designating a word to describe them if what you say is true.

I would suggest that ALL words were created by man - even those found in the Bible. You seem bothered by words less than a few hundred years old - I'm pretty sure folks are steady making up words as we speak. Words are nothing more than descriptions. They describe people, ideas, emotions, philosophies, etc.- they don't CREATE things, they just describe what exists.

I suggest that gay rights has especially struggled because of words and language.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#67 Jun 29, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
OK - are you saying that homosexuals didn't exist before 1869? I'd say "English" was a little late designating a word to describe them if what you say is true.
I would suggest that ALL words were created by man - even those found in the Bible. You seem bothered by words less than a few hundred years old - I'm pretty sure folks are steady making up words as we speak. Words are nothing more than descriptions. They describe people, ideas, emotions, philosophies, etc.- they don't CREATE things, they just describe what exists.
I suggest that gay rights has especially struggled because of words and language.
This clinical word did not exist. And the rest of your post is silly as most of yours are.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#68 Jun 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
How did the civil rights battle play out? Court decided years of discrimination had to end. States would not voluntarily obey, so in comes the Feds with water hoses and guns.
Who did they turn their water hoses on? People sitting inside their homes, minding their business? Nope.

You are confusing "private" with "public". Christianity is PRIVATE and not governed by the government. That is why there are 30,000 versions of it - our government does not dictate religious beliefs - otherwise, they would be consistent. You are jumping to conclusions when you suggest that the government is finally going to step in and START bullying Christians. There is nothing backing up this idea except your imagination.

A ban of gay marriage has not ever been protecting you from the wrath of law enforcement. When it is gone, you will be forced to realize that you have been worked up over nothing all along.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#69 Jun 29, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
This clinical word did not exist. And the rest of your post is silly as most of yours are.
HEY! Don't try to hurt my silly feelings - you'll never succeed!

My kids took karate lessons and they taught a philosophy that they called "KISS". It means "Keep It Simple, Stupid". True, calling the students "stupid" was unconventional, but they also punched them, kicked them, threw them on the ground, over-powered them and I PAID them to do it! My kids loved it and were not offended by the word "stupid" because it is a light-hearted way to say: don't act like you know everything, buddy, you don't.

My grandmother considered "silly" and "stupid" to be curse words and no one was allowed to use them around her.

My point is: regardless of the terminology, I do my best to "keep it simple". All complicated things can be reduced to simple ideas while flowery language and long words HIDE simple ideas from people unable to understand the terminology. If you support an idea, you should support it in it's most simple form - otherwise, your idea is hypocritical.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#70 Jun 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Gay marriage will be legal in 20-25 states, west coast, upper Midwest and northeast. South of Mason-Dixon, rural Midwest no chance. We then have "3/5" citizens again, less than full. Eventually someone either caves or bring in the troops.
Southern society will never allow or accept gay marriage? Yes they will. The gays will pursue their goal until they DO. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for them not to. Politicians WILL cave because the federal government has already deemed gay marriage as legitimate - not allowing it in your town is discriminatory and gays will come to YOUR state and annoy the crap out of everyone until you change your laws to allow gay marriage. It is the only way to protect the rights of ALL the gays. Since they've come this far, shouldn't they go ahead and finish the job?

It's political - you know: clowns who jump through hoops for votes, money, fame, and power. The gays didn't especially WANT to be political, but the alternative is for them to be forever ignored and disadvantaged just because there are so few of them. Only one of every 20 people are "born gay" - so stop stomping them because they are small and few. Give them your vote and have it over with - you even admit that it is inevitable.

If the feds start pointing their water-hose guns at you - I will admit that I was foolish to have believed that gays just wanted the be allowed to fill out paper work. Calm down, Dave - that's not going to happen.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#71 Jun 29, 2013
Religious percussion is what put Jesus on the cross at the hands of the roman government.

Borrowed from wikipedia:
There is also a history of individual Christian denominations suffering persecution at the hands of other Christians under the charge of heresy, particularly during the 16th century Protestant Reformation.

In the 20th century, Christians have been persecuted by various groups, and by atheistic states such as the USSR and North Korea. The Christian missionary organization Open Doors (UK) estimates 100 million Christians face persecution, particularly in Muslim-dominated countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. A survey reported in 2010 that at least 75% of religious persecution, reported from 2008-2010, around the world was directed at people of the Christian faith.

Don't forget the 6 million Jews killed by hitler.

With the direction this country is going-it is possible.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#73 Jun 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
As for churches, most marriages are traditionally performed in a church building. That 5% want acceptance do they not? Does anyone truly think some of them will not attempt to be married in a church? Think no one who is using gay marriage to further their agenda will put up a gay couple to attempt it?
Think a gay couple won't try the RCC on this?
Marriages are traditionally not gay. Gay marriages are traditionally performed within gay communities or privately in homes and parks. Gay marriages have been around for eons - it is the gay marriage certificate that will be new. It will bring with it the ability for gay people to be HONEST about their lifestyle without worry that the information will be used to discriminate against them. AH, now that's freedom. You might recognize it, since you have never had to hide your sexuality.

Gay marriage does not give gays the right to come around and change up what you are doing. Will a gay couple come to your church? Maybe. It doesn't have to be the way you describe it. I would imagine it this way:

Welcome, gays, come in our church and listen to our message and participate in our service. Our sermon today is about what the Bible says about homosexuality. Do you know that God honors marriage between one man and one woman and has chosen homosexual people to remain celibate? Come inside, we'll tell you all about it.

Gays: But..what about..not fair..intolerant..equal rights

I'm sorry you feel that way, but the Bible is clear that God does not honor a homosexual marriage even if the government does. In our church, we encourage people to follow the teachings of the Bible. All followers fall short of God's perfection and so, to participate with our group, we only ask that followers try very hard to follow the rules and repent by asking forgiveness when they do not live up to God's standards.

Isn't that the deal for everyone? Replace "gay" with alcoholic, child abuser, thief - they are all lifestyles that God does not approve of. Still, you invite those sinners into your church. However, if they want to be a "member" they have to make promises to follow the Bible rules. Can gay married people make those promises - only if they promise to be celibate, like God says - if they don't intend to make that commitment, they don't get to join. What if they hang around anyway, without joining the church? Well, you just let them like you let the criminals and addicts hang around - in hopes that your influence will draw those sinners into Christianity that will, in turn, change their lifestyles.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#74 Jun 29, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Does having or procuring an abortion keep one from eternal life? Abortion is pretty much a heterosexual activity with over 50 million having been performed in just the United States. Does divorce and remarriage keep one from eternal life? Divorce and remarriage are pretty much heterosexual activities with a rate of about 50%.
Both can keep one from eternal life. Too many times we think about point action sins-the actual sin itself; ie abortion or homosexuality. The problem actually is that sin often is more than one action.

Does abortion keep one from eternal life? Is abortion sin-yes. But what else goes into the process? Unprotected sexual activity, sex outside of marriage, promiscuous, these are all issues. WHY do people do these things? Then the process where a person decides to have an abortion-firstly it means they have little regard for human life, taking the life of someone also made in the likeness and image of God. Abortion is considered a way to correct a "mistake", not to be burdened with another anchor weighing one down.

Would not selfishness, greed, lack of regard for human life not also be possibly part of abortions? The desire to make life easier? Simply put, that is carnal minds at work. Another thing that often gets overlooked is the racial aspect. The vast majority of abortions in this country are by African-Americans. One of our political parties caters to this voting bloc, while simultaneously supporting the cycle of racial genocide and sinful behavior that leads to the cycle. They perpetuate the problem.

*How about divorce? Divorce in itself isn't sin; if it is, our God is a sinner and we should just be quiet. But the actions that lead to divorce are sin, and often we see no completely innocent party.

Adultery is sin. What lead to it? Lust, not being satisfied with the partner of our youth. Inattention and no affection from one spouse to another; abuse; selfishness; you name it. Divorce is the end result of sin.

FACT-all these, all sin, ultimately are heart issues. If we have heart problems, we are in spiritual danger.
Homosexuality- rejecting God's plan and purpose for marriage and sex; rejecting God's righteous standard; going against nature's law and nature's God. Actually it is an issue of pride, selfishness, and willful rebellion. Is that not a heart issue?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#75 Jun 29, 2013
ASM, totally agree with "KISS". Simple is the most effective way to communicate.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#76 Jun 29, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Southern society will never allow or accept gay marriage? Yes they will. The gays will pursue their goal until they DO. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for them not to. Politicians WILL cave because the federal government has already deemed gay marriage as legitimate - not allowing it in your town is discriminatory and gays will come to YOUR state and annoy the crap out of everyone until you change your laws to allow gay marriage. It is the only way to protect the rights of ALL the gays. Since they've come this far, shouldn't they go ahead and finish the job?
It's political - you know: clowns who jump through hoops for votes, money, fame, and power. The gays didn't especially WANT to be political, but the alternative is for them to be forever ignored and disadvantaged just because there are so few of them. Only one of every 20 people are "born gay" - so stop stomping them because they are small and few. Give them your vote and have it over with - you even admit that it is inevitable.
If the feds start pointing their water-hose guns at you - I will admit that I was foolish to have believed that gays just wanted the be allowed to fill out paper work. Calm down, Dave - that's not going to happen.
You made the correct point- The feds consider gay marriage as legitimate. Christians CANNOT DO THE SAME. We would have to accept as legitimate something that God considers abominable. Equal rights and protection for blacks is a different story. God doesn't consider anyone abominable for being a different skin color. But a willful activity is considered an abomination.

Will gays be happy being recognized by the feds, but not by half the states or most professing Christians? No. Will voters in half the states recognize same sex marriage? No. Feds will eventually have to step in to force those states to recognize- Oklahoma, Mississippi, KY, other places the VOTERS won't cave in.

How will gays get Christians to accept them and their lifestyle?
Simple question Steve- do you believe gay couples will or will not enter into church buildings and demand to be married in the church and accepted as legitimate?

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#77 Jun 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Why is this such a big deal? It is an attempt to force people of faith to accept, recognize, and perform something that has been deemed an abomination from ancient times. It is a behavior that keeps one from eternal life. Christians are told to abstain from and reject such behavior. We aren't to tolerate sin in the church, and speak against sin in the world.
It is a big deal because gay people want the legal benefits of co-existing that heterosexual people have. They want everyone to consider their "spouse" to be their family member - legally, especially. They do not want their lifestyle to be considered "taboo", even though homosexual lifestyles have long been simply ignored. Why is it scandalous to find out that someone you thought was heterosexual was actually a homosexual person in disguise? This is the exact lifestyle that society EXPECTS homosexuals to lead - it is unpleasant for homosexuals.

Every bit of that has to do with SOCIETY and none of it has to do with CHRISTIANITY. It would be equally unconstitutional to amend your religious teachings - freedom of religion has protected YOUR rights. It is your role to speak against ideas that society accepts - greed, adultery, commercialism, AND homosexuality. No one is forcing you to accept it and love it - you are being forced to sit there, be still, and allow it. Your religion has every right to exist exactly the way it is - you do not have the right to enforce your teachings on everybody: society.

If you do not allow sinful behavior in your church - you should not allow homosexual behavior in your church. You SHOULD allow homosexual people into your church, as you would allow anyone from society into your church - but, if they want to join, they will have to handle their homosexuality the way God has decided. You would never be forced to allow a member who openly sins without remorse.

You are now and will remain able to disapprove of homosexuality. You simply cannot continue to prevent homosexual people from receiving legal benefits that heterosexual Americans are allowed. Laws will have to change - your religion does not have to change.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#78 Jun 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Both can keep one from eternal life. Too many times we think about point action sins-the actual sin itself; ie abortion or homosexuality. The problem actually is that sin often is more than one action.
Does abortion keep one from eternal life? Is abortion sin-yes. But what else goes into the process? Unprotected sexual activity, sex outside of marriage, promiscuous, these are all issues. WHY do people do these things? Then the process where a person decides to have an abortion-firstly it means they have little regard for human life, taking the life of someone also made in the likeness and image of God. Abortion is considered a way to correct a "mistake", not to be burdened with another anchor weighing one down.
Would not selfishness, greed, lack of regard for human life not also be possibly part of abortions? The desire to make life easier? Simply put, that is carnal minds at work. Another thing that often gets overlooked is the racial aspect. The vast majority of abortions in this country are by African-Americans. One of our political parties caters to this voting bloc, while simultaneously supporting the cycle of racial genocide and sinful behavior that leads to the cycle. They perpetuate the problem.
*How about divorce? Divorce in itself isn't sin; if it is, our God is a sinner and we should just be quiet. But the actions that lead to divorce are sin, and often we see no completely innocent party.
Adultery is sin. What lead to it? Lust, not being satisfied with the partner of our youth. Inattention and no affection from one spouse to another; abuse; selfishness; you name it. Divorce is the end result of sin.
FACT-all these, all sin, ultimately are heart issues. If we have heart problems, we are in spiritual danger.
Homosexuality- rejecting God's plan and purpose for marriage and sex; rejecting God's righteous standard; going against nature's law and nature's God. Actually it is an issue of pride, selfishness, and willful rebellion. Is that not a heart issue?
Messages like this one are getting to the root of our human condition revealing our need for help-a new heart. David was a man after God's own heart and I am feeling more spiritual kinship with you every day.

This is one of my favorite songs:
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#79 Jun 29, 2013
ASM, please address some of the rest of my posts. For many in the homosexual community, this is about more than a piece of paper or a law. This isn't about tolerance-which many Christians actually do a very good job of, although you wouldn't think so from the media.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#80 Jun 29, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Religious percussion is what put Jesus on the cross at the hands of the roman government.
Borrowed from wikipedia:
There is also a history of individual Christian denominations suffering persecution at the hands of other Christians under the charge of heresy, particularly during the 16th century Protestant Reformation.
In the 20th century, Christians have been persecuted by various groups, and by atheistic states such as the USSR and North Korea. The Christian missionary organization Open Doors (UK) estimates 100 million Christians face persecution, particularly in Muslim-dominated countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. A survey reported in 2010 that at least 75% of religious persecution, reported from 2008-2010, around the world was directed at people of the Christian faith.
Don't forget the 6 million Jews killed by hitler.
With the direction this country is going-it is possible.
The government is not persecuting Christians in any way. By allowing gay marriage, the government will STILL not be persecuting Christians in any way.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#81 Jun 29, 2013
Speaking of media, anyone see any of the Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin trial? I saw both local and national media coverage back to back the other day, and let me tell you- the national media didn't sound anything like the local coverage.

The Zimmerman defense shot holes in the testimony of the woman who was talking to Martin during the confrontation, she got all upset and contentious. She said she wasn't shocked that Trayvon was in a confrontation with someone. Said she really didn't know for sure who was on top, who was doing what, etc. NO MENTION OF ANY OF THIS on the national news broadcast immediately after the local news coverage on the scene of the trial.

Our media is worthless as a news reporting entity. They are now a news MAKING and spinning entity.

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