Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#161 May 20, 2013
Jesus' unity with the Father - Jesus said what?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#162 May 20, 2013
Who loves Jesus as He said to? If you really want to love Him as He desires, this is what He said, isn't it?

John 15:9-15; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you."

Revelation 22:14; "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words, and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me."

Where in all of this did He said 'Just trust that I did it all for you'?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#163 May 20, 2013
Barnsweb, how many times can you disobey and still be saved? My point all along is that we all sin and no one absolutely no one will be in heaven because of his obedience. If obedience is required it must be perfect obedience and I am sure no one other than Jesus can claim that.

The beauty of God's saving grace is that while obedience is not required to gain or keep salvation, yet that same grace is what powerfully motivates those who have received it to love and work toward an obedient lifestyle. Motivated by love more than fear. I fear death but my love for my family motivates me to put their safety above my own.

Measuring ourselves against each other is counter productive.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#164 May 20, 2013
Are we called to be holy as our Father in heaven is Holy?

An OT matter that somewhat applies: The Nazarite vow. All that striving to be holy and set apart - yet look at the examples in Scripture of those under such a vow from birth - both Sampson and John the Baptist. It was a vow to God, yet God said at the end of the vow there was a sacrifice to be made for sin. Even at our 'holiest', we are sinners. But what is the value of the vow? One evident thing was to realize our sinfulness, even when doing our dead level best! But where did Jesus say we are not to be hearers and doers of His teachings? No where.

Your argument is false and cheap.

Where did you get it? Paul?;-)

I rest my case.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#165 May 20, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Are we called to be holy as our Father in heaven is Holy?
An OT matter that somewhat applies: The Nazarite vow. All that striving to be holy and set apart - yet look at the examples in Scripture of those under such a vow from birth - both Sampson and John the Baptist. It was a vow to God, yet God said at the end of the vow there was a sacrifice to be made for sin. Even at our 'holiest', we are sinners. But what is the value of the vow? One evident thing was to realize our sinfulness, even when doing our dead level best! But where did Jesus say we are not to be hearers and doers of His teachings? No where.
Your argument is false and cheap.
Where did you get it? Paul?;-)
I rest my case.
You argument is false and cheap because you are still a man who has yet to completely obey all the commands of the law you may hear and claim to be a doer but you fail to obey-I rest my case. We are both in the same boat together-we desperately need grace...
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#166 May 21, 2013
Sounds like you're calling the teachings of God cheap?

Rather, it would be best to show me from Scripture, and in particular the teachings of Jesus Christ from Matthew through Revelation, where He taught faith alone, grace alone, and that we only need to trust in what He did because nothing we do has anything to do with the gospel.

No, I don't consider my viewpoint of the matter to be cheap at all, but rather weighed in the balance of God. Am I deficient? Of course I am. If I said I wasn't, that would be calling God a liar! That was the point of the nazarite vow comment on the offering for sin at the end of the vow... just a similarity that still exists today for the Christian - to which you just toss under your feet. Sorry, no more pearls for you.

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

#167 May 21, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>Only if you name 1 COC member from 100 AD to 1800 AD. Just one that I can research.
"Seed"

No need

Luke 8:11

www.roysecitycoc.org
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#168 May 21, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Sounds like you're calling the teachings of God cheap?
Rather, it would be best to show me from Scripture, and in particular the teachings of Jesus Christ from Matthew through Revelation, where He taught faith alone, grace alone, and that we only need to trust in what He did because nothing we do has anything to do with the gospel.
No, I don't consider my viewpoint of the matter to be cheap at all, but rather weighed in the balance of God. Am I deficient? Of course I am. If I said I wasn't, that would be calling God a liar! That was the point of the nazarite vow comment on the offering for sin at the end of the vow... just a similarity that still exists today for the Christian - to which you just toss under your feet. Sorry, no more pearls for you.
Not calling obedience cheap, but I am every saying one of us disobey and if we break even one tiny part of the law we are guilty of breaking all of it. We both are completely indebted to the grace of God. We cannot stand before God dressed in our own righteousness.

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#169 May 21, 2013
Dave P wrote:
BW: Second, I think that those who hold to the idea of "eternal security" are often mis-labeled as those who say we can live however we want, act as we want, and still be saved. I see very few people believe we have a license to sin-and the ones that do are the ones who desire to have such license!
Bobby does not advocate disobedience-he does not believe one can "work" or "earn" his salvation by keeping commandments. I don't believe that either.
I have yet to find anyone who claims works salvation.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#170 May 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Not calling obedience cheap, but I am every saying one of us disobey and if we break even one tiny part of the law we are guilty of breaking all of it. We both are completely indebted to the grace of God. We cannot stand before God dressed in our own righteousness.
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Bobby what law are you talking about you breaking?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#171 May 21, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby what law are you talking about you breaking?
That is a legitimate question.

If we bind the old covenant to others that is breaking the law of the Spirit.

This new covenant passage has condemned me me more than once.

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Now, may I ask, what law do you struggle with?
Dave P

Versailles, KY

#172 May 21, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I have yet to find anyone who claims works salvation.
No one is going to come out and claim works salvation. Yet many people still try to do so.

Just listen to that old Alan Jackson song "Where I Come From" sometime. Here's the line:
"Workin' hard trying to get to heaven, where I come from".
No one claims it but many still try to do it.
what

Chicago, IL

#173 May 21, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I have yet to find anyone who claims works salvation.
Matthew, Chapter 10, 33: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Is Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, you're redeemer?

Yes or No?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#174 May 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Not calling obedience cheap, but I am every saying one of us disobey and if we break even one tiny part of the law we are guilty of breaking all of it. We both are completely indebted to the grace of God. We cannot stand before God dressed in our own righteousness.
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
I've never spoken against the grace of God, but do recall, God gives the Spirit to those who obey Him. So we can't walk by the Spirit except in obedience to Him - which of necessity includes the ten commandments and all the teachings of Jesus...whatever He said is true.

John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."

On one hand you agree with me, so long as I leave out the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ from the Father Himself. How can that be? But it is, and shouldn't be so.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#175 May 21, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never spoken against the grace of God, but do recall, God gives the Spirit to those who obey Him. So we can't walk by the Spirit except in obedience to Him - which of necessity includes the ten commandments and all the teachings of Jesus...whatever He said is true.
John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."
On one hand you agree with me, so long as I leave out the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ from the Father Himself. How can that be? But it is, and shouldn't be so.
I'm sorry but I cannot agree that the old covenant is still in force because if it was we would still be condemned by it. The Law does not impart life. I agree that the law is good and the standards set by the law have benefit for us today, but the law cannot make anyone righteous.

Read this bible gateway link, then maybe you can see where I am coming from.

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/comment...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#176 May 21, 2013
I was also thinking abut the work of angels. I may lose some of you here, but I think this passage is revealing:

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

In the same sense that the law is our school master to bring us to Christ, I think angels play a similar role for those who are in Christ but not yet translated into the presence of God.

At this point here on earth we are the very sons of God-his family. Angels do not have that distinction. So we are actually a higher species than they are. But while here on earth they minister to us.

Speaking of Jesus as a man this verse says: Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

And this one: Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

I see this as angels becoming our trainer/protector until we leave this earth.

It's Ok if you disagree:-)

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

#177 May 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
I was also thinking abut the work of angels. I may lose some of you here, but I think this passage is revealing:

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

In the same sense that the law is our school master to bring us to Christ, I think angels play a similar role for those who are in Christ but not yet translated into the presence of God.

At this point here on earth we are the very sons of God-his family. Angels do not have that distinction. So we are actually a higher species than they are. But while here on earth they minister to us.

Speaking of Jesus as a man this verse says: Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

And this one: Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

I see this as angels becoming our trainer/protector until we leave this earth.

It's Ok if you disagree:-)
Did your wife get her miraculous healing at your new church yet?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#178 May 21, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Seed"
No need
Luke 8:11
www.roysecitycoc.org
Jesus is better gardener than that. The world would have starved to death in those 1800 years. So did Iglesia ni Cristo germinate from the seed too. I have heard them debate. They sound more convincing than the locals. They have proof that Jesus would start his Church of Christ in the Phillipines,
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#179 May 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but I cannot agree that the old covenant is still in force because if it was we would still be condemned by it. The Law does not impart life. I agree that the law is good and the standards set by the law have benefit for us today, but the law cannot make anyone righteous.
Read this bible gateway link, then maybe you can see where I am coming from.
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/comment...
Jesus equated His words with light, life, bread and spirit.

A major point is that they expose us as we are and He helps us to arise and go on with Him from that point. Maybe they do condemn those who refuse to get up and walk in them?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#180 May 21, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus equated His words with light, life, bread and spirit.
A major point is that they expose us as we are and He helps us to arise and go on with Him from that point. Maybe they do condemn those who refuse to get up and walk in them?
Ok, that makes sense, what did you think of the link?

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