Early Believers and Scripture
William

Atlanta, GA

#142 Oct 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
How about showing how Isaiah was not fulfilled yet? Or reading Romans 9-11 and see who Paul says Israel really is. Or Romans 12:1, which is "priestly" language no matter how one cuts it. Who is the "Israel of God" in Galatians? Salvation going to the gentiles was foreseen in the OT. William, on this issue I see a lot of dancing, but how does the progressive dispensational idea stand up to scrutiny? I don't see it at all.
There is no such thing as "Spiritual Israel". That sounds like a term invented by a John Hagee or a Barnsweb. More warmed-over Judaism is all it is.
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#143 Oct 12, 2013
William wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no such thing as "Spiritual Israel". That sounds like a term invented by a John Hagee or a Barnsweb. More warmed-over Judaism is all it is.
John Hagee would stroke out over the idea of "spiritual" Israel. But the truth is, in Romans 9-11 Paul points out that true Israel has NEVER been about nationality, but instead, TRUE Israel has always been the people of FAITH. And in chapter 12, he points out that all Israel- all of the faithful, no matter the nation or race- will be saved in the same way, through faith in Jesus Christ.

There has been no such thing as Jew or Gentile for 2000 years. The dividing line is gone. Truthfully, dispensationalism IS Judaism. Jewish rabbis and dispensational teachers come to all of the same conclusions except for one important thing. The dispensationalist thinks one day Jesus will set up an earthly kingdom. The Jews believe the Messiah will set up an earthly kingdom, but if Jesus hasn't done it already, then He cannot be the Messiah. They interpret all of the OT prophecies the same way. Which is correct?
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#144 Oct 12, 2013
http://www.fisheaters.com/dispensationalism.h...

Think this is a pro-catholic site. Much good info there on this.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#145 Oct 13, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
John Hagee would stroke out over the idea of "spiritual" Israel. But the truth is, in Romans 9-11 Paul points out that true Israel has NEVER been about nationality, but instead, TRUE Israel has always been the people of FAITH. And in chapter 12, he points out that all Israel- all of the faithful, no matter the nation or race- will be saved in the same way, through faith in Jesus Christ.
There has been no such thing as Jew or Gentile for 2000 years. The dividing line is gone. Truthfully, dispensationalism IS Judaism. Jewish rabbis and dispensational teachers come to all of the same conclusions except for one important thing. The dispensationalist thinks one day Jesus will set up an earthly kingdom. The Jews believe the Messiah will set up an earthly kingdom, but if Jesus hasn't done it already, then He cannot be the Messiah. They interpret all of the OT prophecies the same way. Which is correct?
I just hate to admit this, but there is some good information from Paul, but what is from Paul can also be found elsewhere - so it isn't needful to quote him. That said, the matter comes back to what God said in His promises and directions - starting with the first man and wife and the matter as progressively revealed throughout the Scriptures.

Abraham was selected by God for reason and cause, and the covenant was make due to Genesis 26, which had to do with Abrahams faithfulness. When the Law was given, it was given to Israel and the 70* nationalities with them (I don't know the number, but this is what I heard from a reputable source). The commandments of God have always been for all nations and nationalities to observe - the sojourners with Israel.

Jesus said the Scriptures were in full effect till all things be fulfilled - even till heaven and earth pass away. He fulfilled all spoken of Him regarding the good hope of the kingdom of heaven being at hand and the need to repent to do the will of God. But that leaves many prophecies yet unfulfilled about His ruling from the throne of David from Jerusalem and subduing the kingdoms of the earth upon His return as Ruler and King/High Priest.

To deny the kingdom of God as presented in Scripture is error if the word of God, the Son, the Holy Angels, Prophets and Apostles is true.

'Behold, I make all things new.' We need to believe Him and those He said to believe.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#146 Oct 13, 2013
Dispensationalism was created to put a dividing line between the OT and NT, between following what Jesus taught VS what Paul taught, to pretend to bring harmony between the gospel of Paul and the gospel of Jesus Christ....

Dispensationalism is not true if God cannot lie.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#147 Oct 13, 2013
The CCC says that the Church is the new Israel. Even the first protesters Luther and Calvin agreed with this.

"Dispensationalism is a philosophy created by Freemasons in the middle 19th century and sold mainly to Protestants in the United Kingdom and the United States. Today it is primarily embraced by many Evangelicals, Pentecostals and some Baptists almost exclusively in the United States. Some US Catholics have even bought into this.

The idea behind it is that the Church is not really the new Israel (as it says in the New Testament), but rather the land of Palestine is the "true Israel" only when it is occupied by people who call themselves Jews whether they practice Judaism or not. The political activity that promotes the return of Jews to the Palestinian area, and sponsors the policies of the Israeli government, is called Zionism. This was also a political ideology spawned by Freemasons in the middle 19th century. Since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 a convergence has developed between Zionism and Dispensationalism.

It has now reached the point where the majority of the world's Zionists are American Christians operating under the Dispensational mindset. Yes, there are now more Christian Zionists in America than Jewish Zionists in the whole world."
William

Atlanta, GA

#148 Oct 13, 2013
"The CCC says that the church is the new Israel."

Just not the Bible.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#149 Oct 13, 2013
William wrote:
"The CCC says that the church is the new Israel."
Just not the Bible.
Sure it does. But the Bible is a blank canvas for you and the other protesters. It says whatever YOU want it to say.

f you read Israel and the Church as being two separate entities than you've missed the boat, and one of the most fundamental teachings of the New Testament just went right over your head. In the eleventh chapter of St. Paul's epistle to the Romans he uses the illustration of an olive tree to make his point.

He compares the Church to a tree that has its roots in the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), and its trunk representing the Law and Prophets in the Old Testament. No tree trunk grows upward into infinity. At some point it must sprout branches, and so St. Paul's "olive tree" does the same.

These branches make up the modern Church in Jesus Christ. Some branches are Jewish Christians. Many branches are Gentile Christians. Both are precious in the eyes of God. This is the "Israel of God."
William

Atlanta, GA

#150 Oct 13, 2013
Not buying it. Romans 11:25-27 and Acts 3:19-21 both talk about a time when believing Israel's sins would be taken away.

Acts 3:1-21 also destroys this notion that someone's sins today are "washed away when they come up out of the water."

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#151 Oct 13, 2013
Raise your hand if you want the state of Israel to be destroyed and the land fall under muslim control once again. Would that make you happy?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/terror-tunnel-di...
William

Dacula, GA

#152 Oct 13, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
Raise your hand if you want the state of Israel to be destroyed and the land fall under muslim control once again. Would that make you happy?
http://www.timesofisrael.com/terror-tunnel-di...
Send us more cash and weapons, ye Christian soldiers!

I've heard that before. And it always works.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#153 Oct 13, 2013
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Send us more cash and weapons, ye Christian soldiers!
I've heard that before. And it always works.
So you are on the let the muslims have it side. Any other countries you are willing to hand over to muslims? How about France?

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/no...
William

Dacula, GA

#154 Oct 13, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are on the let the muslims have it side. Any other countries you are willing to hand over to muslims? How about France?
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/no...
Well now that is quite a stretch. Shall I tell you what I was doing in January - February 1991? I helped kick Muslims out of a Muslim country so that the free flow of oil at market prices could continue to occur.

This is not widely known. Most people think that we did it because of our benevolent love for the Kuwaiti people.

As for Israel today, they are bought and paid for and are not going anywhere. I would be concerned if I were a resident of Tel Aviv, however, since I know for a fact that it is the target of a nuke strike. Not so Jerusalem.

Tunnels ain't the worry.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#155 Oct 13, 2013
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Well now that is quite a stretch. Shall I tell you what I was doing in January - February 1991? I helped kick Muslims out of a Muslim country so that the free flow of oil at market prices could continue to occur.
This is not widely known. Most people think that we did it because of our benevolent love for the Kuwaiti people.
As for Israel today, they are bought and paid for and are not going anywhere. I would be concerned if I were a resident of Tel Aviv, however, since I know for a fact that it is the target of a nuke strike. Not so Jerusalem.
Tunnels ain't the worry.
I know you guys killed a lot of muslims but it wasn't nearly enough to stop their advance once again into the West.
William

Dacula, GA

#156 Oct 13, 2013
Mark, the IDF and the MOSSAD know about every trick that could ever be tried to get weapons or insurgents into Israel. Anything printed about it is merely propaganda that is used to convey a message to their enemies. It is also used as a propaganda tool to scare pro-Israeli governments and wealthy people into forking over more cash.

Israelis are masters at both intelligence and begging for money. They also are pretty good at ground and air combat when they have to be. Thanks to us.
William

Dacula, GA

#157 Oct 13, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you guys killed a lot of muslims but it wasn't nearly enough to stop their advance once again into the West.
What western countries have they attacked and invaded? Or are you referring to the ever-popular Sharia law scares made popular by Tea Bagger pols?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#158 Oct 13, 2013
Throughout history, Israel has been Gods elect but not so much today. Only those who put their faith in the God of Israel will be called "the elect" or chosen people. Faith will take precedence over nationality. The righteous come in all races, creeds and colors and there is coming a one world government.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#159 Oct 13, 2013
William wrote:
<quoted text>
What western countries have they attacked and invaded? Or are you referring to the ever-popular Sharia law scares made popular by Tea Bagger pols?
I suggest you check British and French newspapers on line everyday as I do. Both countries now have serious muslim no-go areas. Closer to home check Dearborn Michigan. Of course muslims have never attacked the United States LOL

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#160 Oct 13, 2013
William wrote:
Mark, the IDF and the MOSSAD know about every trick that could ever be tried to get weapons or insurgents into Israel. Anything printed about it is merely propaganda that is used to convey a message to their enemies. It is also used as a propaganda tool to scare pro-Israeli governments and wealthy people into forking over more cash.
Israelis are masters at both intelligence and begging for money. They also are pretty good at ground and air combat when they have to be. Thanks to us.
So bottom line with you is that it's OK for the state of Israel to be erased and the entire Middle East to be muslim once again.
William

Dacula, GA

#161 Oct 13, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
So bottom line with you is that it's OK for the state of Israel to be erased and the entire Middle East to be muslim once again.
You really missed your calling as a Fox News anchor. Israel will never be "erased" although it may very well get nuked one day. Just not Jerusalem.

An airliner or a cargo plane, or an Israeli military transport aircraft, or an allied aircraft, could be used to deliver a nuke. What happened on 9-11 with airliners was a very successful trial run. Tel Aviv is the primary target, and Haifa is the secondary.

But if that happens, then all bets are off.

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