Early Believers and Scripture

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#225 Oct 16, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, since I know more Mormons, I've met some that are quite unlikeable and perhaps dangerous with what they believe - such as a fellow who told me: "If God doesn't make me a God too, there's going to be a lot of people die!" Creepy guy. Another is a California politician who actually has an active 'Mormon Battalion' that most LDS don't know exists to this day. Nice guy though - but secretive things cause me to back off - especially stuff like that.
There are a couple of 'tell all' books on LDS that are excellent. One is "One Nation Under Gods", and another is "Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon." In actuality the similarities between Joseph Smith Jr. and the apostle Paul are quite remarkable - although the doctrines taught by them are on opposite ends of the line of doctrines of the Christian faith. Neither one of them told the same story of their miraculous encounter with Jesus Christ in any consistent account - as if told in a court of law, they would be found to be liars because of the inconsistencies. Did they both think they had some special revelation from God and Christ? I think so, but because they believed differently than what God said through His Son, I'll have to default to say both were liars, in spite of all their claims to be great revelators of God.
Did they see something? If they had, they failed to tell us what it really was, as evidenced by their changing story and then those who follow them also testify of themselves because they have not searched the matter out and no matter which version they uphold as true, they also have to testify in a round about way that they don't believe other things of the claimer to the authority to be an Apostle or Seer or Prophet of God.
Comparing Paul to Joe Smith !!! Wow. You are in the fringe.

Your posts have no relevancy. Too far out there. Imagination running wild

The Church approved of Paul's work. Even sent him to the Dioceses to announce the decision of the Council of Jerusalem.
William

Birmingham, AL

#226 Oct 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>They are personally against abortion but don't want to force what they believe on somebody else.
So they vote for the thing that their constituents want to hear, so that they can remain in office, despite their own personal convictions regarding murder, etc.

Par for the course for most any politician. Catholic, protestant, atheist, Democrat, or Republican. The luckiest ones get to align their personal beliefs with those of their like-minded constituents. Alabama Baptist Republicans get the most boxes checked in that regard.

No having to hide from their priests in their synagogues on Sunday when the topic turns to abortion.
Annoying Proxy

Manassas, VA

#227 Oct 16, 2013
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#228 Oct 16, 2013
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Comparing Paul to Joe Smith !!! Wow. You are in the fringe.
Your posts have no relevancy. Too far out there. Imagination running wild
The Church approved of Paul's work. Even sent him to the Dioceses to announce the decision of the Council of Jerusalem.
On the surface it does appear fringe, for such as the reason you state. However, note that Jesus compared the one of which He was speaking to Balaam. Balaam was a true prophet who later was found false - because he lead people to think it was OK to do what God said not to do. Paul also did just this. Note also that although those at Jerusalem held Paul as a brother in the faith, that later on in the matter we no longer see the support when it could well have been noted in the matter later on. Why did all in Asia forsake him? Why wasn't the defense of Paul that he taught no such thing at Ephesus as he was accused of? It's the missing pieces that implicate him when it is investigated further. The Homiliy (sp?) of Clement (?)(drawing a blank on the exact person who wrote down the 'testimony' of Peter about Paul that was found near 1900) gives some information that sheds an entirely different light on the matter of what was going on between the 'lead' apostles at Jerusalem that Acts doesn't note, but which fits exactly with the facts of what Luke, Peter, James and John said in what we have in Scripture, as well as fits perfectly with some curious statements from Paul in some of his epistles and letters.

Paul, by the scriptural evidences defected away from the faith as taught by Jesus Christ, the apostles and the foretelling of the Holy Scripture on which the once for all delivered faith is based.

Did Paul ever teach eating meat sacrificed to idols was acceptable?

Just look at that singular issue - can you show me that the text was mistranslated in what he wrote on the topic that said it was just a matter of conscience, and OK?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#229 Oct 16, 2013
Annoying Proxy wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =SkzV5AIK8iMXX&feature=you tu.be
That was great!!!!:-) Thanks for sharing!:-) Some things never change..........
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#230 Oct 16, 2013
Comparing Paul to Joe Smith !!! Wow. You are in the fringe.

Your posts have no relevancy. Too far out there. Imagination running wild

The Church approved of Paul's work. Even sent him to the Dioceses to announce the decision of the Council of Jerusalem.

Good enough to reuse.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#231 Oct 16, 2013
On the surface it does appear fringe, for such as the reason you state. However, note that Jesus compared the one of which He was speaking to Balaam. Balaam was a true prophet who later was found false - because he lead people to think it was OK to do what God said not to do. Paul also did just this. Note also that although those at Jerusalem held Paul as a brother in the faith, that later on in the matter we no longer see the support when it could well have been noted in the matter later on. Why did all in Asia forsake him? Why wasn't the defense of Paul that he taught no such thing at Ephesus as he was accused of? It's the missing pieces that implicate him when it is investigated further. The Homiliy (sp?) of Clement (?)(drawing a blank on the exact person who wrote down the 'testimony' of Peter about Paul that was found near 1900) gives some information that sheds an entirely different light on the matter of what was going on between the 'lead' apostles at Jerusalem that Acts doesn't note, but which fits exactly with the facts of what Luke, Peter, James and John said in what we have in Scripture, as well as fits perfectly with some curious statements from Paul in some of his epistles and letters.

Paul, by the scriptural evidences defected away from the faith as taught by Jesus Christ, the apostles and the foretelling of the Holy Scripture on which the once for all delivered faith is based.

Did Paul ever teach eating meat sacrificed to idols was acceptable?

Just look at that singular issue - can you show me that the text was mistranslated in what he wrote on the topic that said it was just a matter of conscience, and OK?

So was mine:-) How about addressing the point?;-)
Denial is not a river in Egypt;-)
Annoying Proxy

Manassas, VA

#232 Oct 16, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Are the 'rules' the Constitution, or are the rules to seal documents that prove you're not qualified for the office? Are the 'rules' to uphold the Constitution and faithfulness to the office and the duties you've been entrusted to? That Hillary and Bill were unexpectedly side-swiped is just a statement of how corrupt politics are today. I highly suspect Romney deliberately threw the election because he saw 'the handwriting on the wall' that he was not going to survive and be faithful to the Constitution. What Mitt warned of has happened.
We are a nation of godless pagans and elected what we deserve.
Christians would well heed the advice of Jesus in Revelation about who those are that overcome the world and get busy at it and pray they are worthy to escape that which is coming upon the earth. Psalm 2. The leaders of the world have set themselves against God - will we repent to be a faithful kingdom of priests of Jesus Christ? Or will many think they are saved merely by saying a prayer to put their 'trust' in Jesus, as they ignore what He taught, as they run headlong along with Paul, thinking that Jesus nullified the Gods direction to mankind and particularly His people.
When the Law was given, it was given to all the sojourner nationalities with Israel - not only to Israel. Because Paul was a slothful student of the word of God and the Lord - do we have to do as Paul? Or can we do as Peter, James, John and all the faithful disciples of Jesus did?
A sidebar - this youtube link of a Jewish scholar well proves the Hebrew is correct, and that the Greek is a third hand translation, as it went from Hebrew to Aramaic and finally translated to Greek.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =tddCNY6U77YXX
I cannot believe the similarities between the Pharisees and the Catholics. It is a long study but I challenge anyone and everyone to listen to this You Tube and just parallel what is being taught about Pharisees with todays Catholic church and he is not teaching about Catholics at all. The resemblance is eerie.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#233 Oct 16, 2013
BW- So was mine:-) How about addressing the point?;-)
Denial is not a river in Egypt;-)

That buffoonery was already addressed before. Actually reading and understanding what Paul wrote would be helpful before depending on "Jesus' words only" guy and some book stuck in a cave until 1900. Talk about continuous revelation.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#234 Oct 16, 2013
Not in denial, but you may be delirious.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#235 Oct 17, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
On the surface it does appear fringe, for such as the reason you state. However, note that Jesus compared the one of which He was speaking to Balaam. Balaam was a true prophet who later was found false - because he lead people to think it was OK to do what God said not to do. Paul also did just this. Note also that although those at Jerusalem held Paul as a brother in the faith, that later on in the matter we no longer see the support when it could well have been noted in the matter later on. Why did all in Asia forsake him? Why wasn't the defense of Paul that he taught no such thing at Ephesus as he was accused of? It's the missing pieces that implicate him when it is investigated further. The Homiliy (sp?) of Clement (?)(drawing a blank on the exact person who wrote down the 'testimony' of Peter about Paul that was found near 1900) gives some information that sheds an entirely different light on the matter of what was going on between the 'lead' apostles at Jerusalem that Acts doesn't note, but which fits exactly with the facts of what Luke, Peter, James and John said in what we have in Scripture, as well as fits perfectly with some curious statements from Paul in some of his epistles and letters.
Paul, by the scriptural evidences defected away from the faith as taught by Jesus Christ, the apostles and the foretelling of the Holy Scripture on which the once for all delivered faith is based.
Did Paul ever teach eating meat sacrificed to idols was acceptable?
Just look at that singular issue - can you show me that the text was mistranslated in what he wrote on the topic that said it was just a matter of conscience, and OK?
So was mine:-) How about addressing the point?;-)
Denial is not a river in Egypt;-)
Peter said that Paul's writings are hard to understand.

You are perfect proof of that.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#236 Oct 17, 2013
I was brought up on Paul, but only came to understand him as an adult who had enough life experience to recognize a liar when I hear one. If you believe everything Paul says without question, it is you who are being deceived and lead away from what God said to do.

What are the parting directions of Jesus? What is the first thing He said not to think? Paul somehow allowed himself to violate both and teach others to think as he did - that Torah was nailed to the cross - in fact, rather than as God said,'Choose life that ye might live!', Paul says all those things are past within less than a single generation - even Jerusalem was still standing - let alone the whole earth not passing away.

Jesus taught belief in His name is to not take His name in vain - but to instead both hear and do what He said, what God said through Moses and the Prophets and Psalms. Jesus concludes with judgment by works - whereas Paul taught it was by profession of the mouth and doing what is in 'good conscience', in spite of the Torah or higher standards of righteousness Jesus taught. Acts 3:22,23 is the equivalent of a warning not to take the name of Jesus vainly, that we are to follow Him, be yoked to Him, and abide in whatsoever He taught as the Doctrine of God.

II Peter was not authorized scripture until much later - more than 200 years - and to think II Peter is on par with I Peter is highly questionable.

But addressing the charges of Jesus: Did Paul say it was OK to eat meat sacrificed to idols? Of course Paul did. Did Paul say the Torah is death, whereas God, the prophets, David and the Son said otherwise. Did only Paul tell the truth that doing as God said is righteousness is death?

I choose to believe what Jesus said is the truth.
You choose to believe that Jesus and God lied to prove that to you Paul be true.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#237 Oct 17, 2013
Paul was just a good Pharisee who made up his own commandments to supplant the doctrine of Jesus Christ because he wasn't able to be a hearer and doer. He loved to eat meat sacrificed to idols - evidently. They must have had some really good idolsauce with the barbque;-)
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#238 Oct 17, 2013
BW- I was brought up on Paul, but only came to understand him as an adult who had enough life experience to recognize a liar when I hear one. If you believe everything Paul says without question, it is you who are being deceived and lead away from what God said to do.

Dave- without question? How about after examining what the man said and coming to an understanding that he is correct? You didn't have enough "life experience to recognize a liar" until you got into HRM and Jesus words only guys- what, about one year ago? A year ago, your tune about Paul was completely different.

BW- Paul somehow allowed himself to violate both and teach others to think as he did - that Torah was nailed to the cross.

Dave- lie, and you know it. Just because the majority of the religious world thinks this, does not mean it is true. Twisting his words, this is.

BW- Paul says all those things are past within less than a single generation - even Jerusalem was still standing - let alone the whole earth not passing away.

Dave- Jesus Himself said that that single generation would suffer those things, and see the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and Judaism. The system was rendered obsolete, the law was fulfilled as was the Levitical priesthood. 70 AD is the fulfillment of much prophecy. Judaizers, orthodox Jews, and money grabbing evangelicals don't like to hear that though.

BW-
II Peter was not authorized scripture until much later - more than 200 years - and to think II Peter is on par with I Peter is highly questionable.

Dave- yet to place a letter hid in a cave until 1900 on the same level as even "doubtful scriptures" is beyond highly questionable. I stick with buffoonery.

BW- Did Paul say it was OK to eat meat sacrificed to idols? Of course Paul did.

Dave- did Paul tell them to flee from idolatry, and not to go to the idols temple? Of course he did, if you let him speak for himself.

BW- Did Paul say the Torah is death, whereas God, the prophets, David and the Son said otherwise.

Dave- Did Paul say the law was good, holy, and uselful? Of course he did.

BW- I choose to believe what Jesus said is the truth.
You choose to believe that Jesus and God lied to prove that to you Paul be true.

Dave- of course, I can reply with good consciousness that you believe God and Jesus both lied, since Jesus didn't get the job done when He came the first time; and since He nor the Father had plans in place for Israel's rejection. Don't worry- orthodox Jews agree with you. They just go the next logical step and deny Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. You think He is returning to establish a Jewish kingdom; they think SOMEONE is coming to do that, but it isn't Him because He was a fraud.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#239 Oct 17, 2013
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter said that Paul's writings are hard to understand.
You are perfect proof of that.
Amen. On a side note, have you noticed that most "sola scriptura" problems, false systems, etc all come from misunderstanding Paul's writings? Perhaps Paul was over most people's heads- he must still be.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#240 Oct 17, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen. On a side note, have you noticed that most "sola scriptura" problems, false systems, etc all come from misunderstanding Paul's writings? Perhaps Paul was over most people's heads- he must still be.
Only because of the volume. Protestants have issues with every book.

For example the biggest which is the the Gospels.

"Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you do not have life in you."
William

Warrior, AL

#241 Oct 17, 2013
Jesus as Count Dracula.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#242 Oct 17, 2013
So Paul was right to deny prohibition against eating meat offered to idols? Explain how so.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#243 Oct 17, 2013
William wrote:
Jesus as Count Dracula.
John 6:66.
William

Birmingham, AL

#244 Oct 17, 2013
Romans 2:16

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