The Question The COC Refuse To Answer

The Question The COC Refuse To Answer

Posted in the Martinsville Forum

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JustChristian

Axton, VA

#1 Nov 21, 2012
“If someone understands/knows that their sins were/are forgiven by God because of Jesus’ death on the cross and understands/knows that He is the Son of God and is fully immersed, is he properly baptized?”

Yes or No
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#2 Nov 21, 2012
JustChristian wrote:
“If someone understands/knows that their sins were/are forgiven by God because of Jesus’ death on the cross and understands/knows that He is the Son of God and is fully immersed, is he properly baptized?”
Yes or No
This has been answered numerous times. But I will try again. Colosians 2 says buried with him in baptism and faith in the operation of God. So if that person had faith in the operation of God and knows they are being added to the church, the one body, in the new testament, then I would say yes.

But if that think they are saved at the point of faith, faith only, then going in the water would be just getting them wet.
HeathEater

United States

#3 Nov 21, 2012
Mike Conner wrote:
<quoted text>
This has been answered numerous times. But I will try again. Colosians 2 says buried with him in baptism and faith in the operation of God. So if that person had faith in the operation of God and knows they are being added to the church, the one body, in the new testament, then I would say yes.
But if that think they are saved at the point of faith, faith only, then going in the water would be just getting them wet.
You did not provide a "yes" or "no" instead you modified the question in an attempt to make your position work. Go back and give a simple "yes" or no" to the question. Why are you afraid to do that. Instead you took the question and modified it to fit your position. Go back and give a "yes" or "no" .....
Dioscorus of Nyssa

Buffalo, NY

#5 Nov 22, 2012
So, it's not the saving work of Christ on the cross that saves a sinner, but the sinner's work in fully understanding the doctrine taught by the church of Christ?

Not sure if I agree with that.

No, wait, I am sure I don't agree with that.
HeathEater

United States

#6 Nov 22, 2012
Did you notice that they will not give a 'yes' or 'no' to this question. That is very telling. Mike above danced all around this and ran straight to coc tradition. Mike come back and make this simple. Is the answer yes or no? Ask Heath if you need some help :-)
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#7 Nov 22, 2012
HeathEater wrote:
Did you notice that they will not give a 'yes' or 'no' to this question. That is very telling. Mike above danced all around this and ran straight to coc tradition. Mike come back and make this simple. Is the answer yes or no? Ask Heath if you need some help :-)
Are you having a hard time reading? I answered your original question TWICE.

The second time was NO. Its very talking that you are not acknowledging my answer.

What's also telling and sad is scripture doesn't seem to work on you. So why don't you tell us how a person is saved?
HeathEater

Earlysville, VA

#8 Nov 22, 2012
“If someone understands/knows that their sins were/are forgiven by God because of Jesus’ death on the cross and understands/knows that He is the Son of God and is fully immersed, is he properly baptized?”

Yes or No

Mike Conner says the answer is....NO.

Acts chapter 3, chapter 10, and chapter 19 says differently.
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#9 Nov 22, 2012
HeathEater wrote:
“If someone understands/knows that their sins were/are forgiven by God because of Jesus’ death on the cross and understands/knows that He is the Son of God and is fully immersed, is he properly baptized?”
Yes or No
Mike Conner says the answer is....NO.
Acts chapter 3, chapter 10, and chapter 19 says differently.
Are everyone's sins forgiven? Is there anything one must do to have remission of sins and be saved?

Make an argument and then maybe we can discuss what you are trying to say. But I doubt you really want to discuss this.
HeathEater

Earlysville, VA

#10 Nov 22, 2012
Peter covers it all here: Acts chapter 3 verses 19 through 26. Beginning at verse 19 Peter concluding his sermon in Jerusalem says these words; "Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and He shall send Jesus Christ who was before preached unto you, whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the age began.
HeathEater

Earlysville, VA

#11 Nov 22, 2012
Mike, you are not answering this question:

“If someone understands/knows that their sins were/are forgiven by God because of Jesus’ death on the cross and understands/knows that He is the Son of God and is fully immersed, is he properly baptized?”

Yes or No

You continually dance around this. Is the baptism above PROPER?
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#12 Nov 22, 2012
HeathEater wrote:
Mike, you are not answering this question:
“If someone understands/knows that their sins were/are forgiven by God because of Jesus’ death on the cross and understands/knows that He is the Son of God and is fully immersed, is he properly baptized?”
Yes or No
You continually dance around this. Is the baptism above PROPER?
You can't be seriously asking that question again. If you would read back a few posts I answered it.

You really are showing your dishonesty.
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#13 Nov 22, 2012
HeathEater wrote:
Peter covers it all here: Acts chapter 3 verses 19 through 26. Beginning at verse 19 Peter concluding his sermon in Jerusalem says these words; "Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and He shall send Jesus Christ who was before preached unto you, whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the age began.
Where is faith mentioned in this passage? Where is confession? Are these not a part of salvation?
HeathEater

Earlysville, VA

#14 Nov 22, 2012
Mike Conner wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is faith mentioned in this passage? Where is confession? Are these not a part of salvation?
You are kidding right? Why repent if there is no faith? Be converted? Peter told this people what to do to be CONVERTED = REPENT.
HeathEater

Earlysville, VA

#15 Nov 22, 2012
Mike Conner wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't be seriously asking that question again. If you would read back a few posts I answered it.
You really are showing your dishonesty.
Is NO your answer? If so you just condemned every coc because they are saved this way to.
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#16 Nov 22, 2012
HeathEater wrote:
<quoted text>
You are kidding right? Why repent if there is no faith? Be converted? Peter told this people what to do to be CONVERTED = REPENT.
Being converted is obeying the gospel. Romans 6:17-18.

Your sins are not removed until you do that. So, believing your sins are already forgiven BEFORE you have obeyed that form of doctrine found in the new testament, would mean you are not a Christian. And if you were baptized then your baptism would NOT be scriptural baptism.
Mike Conner

Spanish Fort, AL

#17 Nov 22, 2012
HeathEater wrote:
<quoted text>
Is NO your answer? If so you just condemned every coc because they are saved this way to.
YES. NO is my answer. I covered your objection in my last post.
HeathEaster

Charlottesville, VA

#18 Nov 23, 2012
Mike Conner wrote:
<quoted text>
Being converted is obeying the gospel. Romans 6:17-18.
Your sins are not removed until you do that. So, believing your sins are already forgiven BEFORE you have obeyed that form of doctrine found in the new testament, would mean you are not a Christian. And if you were baptized then your baptism would NOT be scriptural baptism.
Acts 19 why were they rebaptized? It was not for the reason you list above.

Acts 3 Peter connected repentance with conversion.

Acts 10 Cornelius was saved BEFORE baptism.

Even in Acts 2 they understood they were forgiven BEFORE the were baptized. This is why they repented.
Mike Conner

Pearl River, LA

#19 Nov 23, 2012
HeathEaster wrote:
<quoted text>
Acts 19 why were they rebaptized? It was not for the reason you list above.
Acts 3 Peter connected repentance with conversion.
Acts 10 Cornelius was saved BEFORE baptism.
Even in Acts 2 they understood they were forgiven BEFORE the were baptized. This is why they repented.
In acts 19 they had been baptized only knowing johns baptism. After the death and resurection of Christ, they were under the new covenant.

In acts 3 repentance is connected with salvation. No argument there. But is that the ONLY requirement? Just like faith would not be the only requirement or baptism. But taking all of what God says about salvation.

In acts 2 if they were already forgiven then why ask what to do? And why would the answer be repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

Peter was telling them what to do, based on the fact that they had heard the gospel and believed.
Mike Conner

Pearl River, LA

#20 Nov 23, 2012
Cornelius was not saved before baptism. If he was then he was saved before faith. In ch. 11 Peter said as I BEGAN to speak the holy ghost fell on them. This happened before he even heard what Peter said.

This was a miracle showing that God be accepted the gentiles.
HeathEater

Earlysville, VA

#21 Nov 23, 2012
Mike Conner wrote:
Cornelius was not saved before baptism. If he was then he was saved before faith. In ch. 11 Peter said as I BEGAN to speak the holy ghost fell on them. This happened before he even heard what Peter said.
This was a miracle showing that God be accepted the gentiles.
Are tongues for believers or lost people?

1 Corinthians 14:22

"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers"

When Peter BEGAN he obviously had said enough as evidenced by the Holy Spirit confirming God accepted them as saved people with a sign gift of speaking in tongues. You have no idea what Peter said when he BEGAN speaking. You are merely playing the COC card, trying to act as though Peter had not preached the Gospel, when the truth is you have no idea what all Peter said when he BEGAN speaking. It seems by the Holy Spirit granting them a sign gift ( one for saved people ) that Peter said plenty enough when he BEGAN to speak.

You are merely parroting COC doctrine.

Try again

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