He that believes and is baptized will...
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#104 Jul 15, 2013
William wrote:
They all think that works either are a part of getting saved or have a role in "staying saved". Both of which make a mockery of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection.
But that is what religion does for ya. Have to die to really find out if you made it to heaven.
Faith working through love. Love is works.

Protestants think works is a dirty word. Some do works, which is good, but it is something that they do independent of God.

1 Corithians 13:13
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Works is one of the biggest factors in determining salvation. Remember, love is a work, and love is greater than faith (1 Corinthians 13:13). How do we know love is a work? Because to love is a commandment. What are the commandments? Love other as yourself. How are we to love others as ourselves? By feeding the hungry. Clothing the bare. Aiding the sick. Visiting the imprisoned. These are all works of love.

We see in Romans 2:5-8 that God will repay each man according to his works. It doesnít mention faith once. 2 Corinthians 5:10 reads,ďFor we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.Ē

This emphasizes that a person with faith, although the faith is left unmentioned, is judged according to their works, because their works are either good or evil. Remember, not everyone with faith who cries Lord, Lord will make it into heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21). Doing the Fatherís will isnít faith, itís a work.

Again, faith is most precious. But the vitality of faith is contingent on works. But works are not contingent on faith. It says faith without works is dead, never the other way around (James 2:20).
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#105 Jul 15, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow talk about works salvation.
For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

That's what Bobby and I are saying.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#106 Jul 15, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith working through love. Love is works.
Protestants think works is a dirty word. Some do works, which is good, but it is something that they do independent of God.
1 Corithians 13:13
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Works is one of the biggest factors in determining salvation. Remember, love is a work, and love is greater than faith (1 Corinthians 13:13). How do we know love is a work? Because to love is a commandment. What are the commandments? Love other as yourself. How are we to love others as ourselves? By feeding the hungry. Clothing the bare. Aiding the sick. Visiting the imprisoned. These are all works of love.
We see in Romans 2:5-8 that God will repay each man according to his works. It doesnít mention faith once. 2 Corinthians 5:10 reads,ďFor we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.Ē
This emphasizes that a person with faith, although the faith is left unmentioned, is judged according to their works, because their works are either good or evil. Remember, not everyone with faith who cries Lord, Lord will make it into heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21). Doing the Fatherís will isnít faith, itís a work.
Again, faith is most precious. But the vitality of faith is contingent on works. But works are not contingent on faith. It says faith without works is dead, never the other way around (James 2:20).
When applied to catholics works is a dirty word not because the works are good but because our own righteousness is like filthy rags. We don't gain favor with God by trying to purchase our salvation which is a gift. Purgatory is a lie...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#107 Jul 15, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, that was the point I was making. But I do believe that we should be doing those things not because we are required to, rather because we see the need to and our heart is moved to do something. Doing those things does not save us, it is because we are saved that we respond.
Im sure you were :)

Now tell us how baptism is works salvation again.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#108 Jul 15, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
That's what Bobby and I are saying.
I posted what bobby typed. He wanted to get off here go do some works and then get together and talk about those. Now that is works salvation at its finest.
William

Birmingham, AL

#109 Jul 15, 2013
"Works is one of the biggest factors in determining salvation."

And right here folks, is religion in a nutshell. Religion ALWAYS puts the onus back on you do "do something" to get saved or "remain saved."

And it makes a absolute mockery of what Christ did. If you could do ANYTHING to obtain salvation, then you are performing works and God would owe you something. You'd be able to brag one day that something you did, or didn't do, merited you being in heaven. You would boast about it, and God is never going to permit that.

You know what God thinks about our flesh, right? So what makes any of you think that you, in your flesh, can do anything to please God? Or add to the finished work of Christ?

You need HIS righteousness to please God. The righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to you is the only thing that will get you to heaven.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#110 Jul 15, 2013
He also mentioned our place in the kingdom being secure. As in being Christians, not working to stay saved or become Christians.
William

Birmingham, AL

#111 Jul 15, 2013
And you don't get Christ's righteousness imputed to you by getting in some bathtub or river either. You get is by TRUSTING what Christ has already done for you, some 2,000 years ago.

Your sins were paid for. Completely. Whether or not you have come to grips with God's reconciliation through the death of his son for you is something that you will have to determine.

When you are ready to give up "trying to please" God through what you do, and rely on what Christ did FOR YOU, then God will save you. But not until then.

THAT is repentance.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#112 Jul 15, 2013
William wrote:
And you don't get Christ's righteousness imputed to you by getting in some bathtub or river either. You get is by TRUSTING what Christ has already done for you, some 2,000 years ago.
Your sins were paid for. Completely. Whether or not you have come to grips with God's reconciliation through the death of his son for you is something that you will have to determine.
When you are ready to give up "trying to please" God through what you do, and rely on what Christ did FOR YOU, then God will save you. But not until then.
THAT is repentance.
Tell us How Abrahams trust was shown?
William

Fruithurst, AL

#113 Jul 15, 2013
Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness. He trusted God, not some organization that claimed to speak for God.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#114 Jul 15, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
When applied to catholics works is a dirty word not because the works are good but because our own righteousness is like filthy rags. We don't gain favor with God by trying to purchase our salvation which is a gift. Purgatory is a lie...
The Bible is not "This Not That"

You are saved by Faith working through love.

Paul was talking to believers, Catholics. He was not talking to any Protestants. No apostle did. They did not exist for 1400 years later.

Paul made very clear in Romans 2:6-8 that good works are necessary for attaining eternal life, at least for those capable of performing them: "For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury."

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#115 Jul 15, 2013
William wrote:
And you don't get Christ's righteousness imputed to you by getting in some bathtub or river either. You get is by TRUSTING what Christ has already done for you, some 2,000 years ago.
Your sins were paid for. Completely. Whether or not you have come to grips with God's reconciliation through the death of his son for you is something that you will have to determine.
When you are ready to give up "trying to please" God through what you do, and rely on what Christ did FOR YOU, then God will save you. But not until then.
THAT is repentance.
Repentance is what?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#116 Jul 15, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is not "This Not That"
You are saved by Faith working through love.
Paul was talking to believers, Catholics. He was not talking to any Protestants. No apostle did. They did not exist for 1400 years later.
Paul made very clear in Romans 2:6-8 that good works are necessary for attaining eternal life, at least for those capable of performing them: "For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury."
Holy taking the scriptures out of context Batman! Paul's whole point in the early part of Romans is that all sin and fall short of the glory of God, and that all men need the gospel. That wrath and fury is on every man who doeth evil. Guess who that is- every one of us.

Catholics didn't exist for about what, 275 years after Paul wrote this? Where do we read that anyone wrote a letter in the Bible saying, "To the catholics at Rome, Corinth, etc"?

Ain't there junior. I'll ignore a lot of your junk but you aren't slipping that one past anybody.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#117 Jul 15, 2013
William wrote:
Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness. He trusted God, not some organization that claimed to speak for God.
What was counted to him for righteousness?
William

Birmingham, AL

#118 Jul 15, 2013
"Repentance is what?"

"What was counted to him for righteousness?"

I'll pass on the predictable Church of Christ circular reasoning arguments. All of them inevitably lead back to having to get into a bathtub.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#119 Jul 15, 2013
William wrote:
"Repentance is what?"
"What was counted to him for righteousness?"
I'll pass on the predictable Church of Christ circular reasoning arguments. All of them inevitably lead back to having to get into a bathtub.
No this one is simple. Abraham's faith is accounted to him for righteousness. Paul said that OUR faith is accounted for righteousness. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus' own personal righteousness is credited to our account.
William

Birmingham, AL

#120 Jul 15, 2013
"Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus' own personal righteousness is credited to our account."

Galatians 2:16 (KJV)

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Our faith is in what Christ did for us. We are justified by his faith. He was made righteous for us and his righteousness is imputed to us when we trust the gospel.
William

Birmingham, AL

#121 Jul 15, 2013
"Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus' own personal righteousness is credited to our account."

Romans 4:22-25 (KJV)

22 And therefore it was imputed to him (Abraham) for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 BUT FOR US ALSO, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
William

Birmingham, AL

#122 Jul 15, 2013
Why won't y'all TRUST what was done FOR YOU?

It is THE FREE GIFT.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#123 Jul 15, 2013
William wrote:
Why won't y'all TRUST what was done FOR YOU?
It is THE FREE GIFT.
Would Abraham trusted God if he had not attempted to Sacrifice Issac? Was it necessary that he proceed to raise the knife?

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