Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

#84 Jul 13, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Our take on this doesn't allow for faith only. But it allows for anyone who believes and is baptized. Bobby still sees this as works and may reject our take on this.
The example of Nicodemus in John 3 should be enough to put faith only to rest. Jesus didn't commit to those who had faith only; He committed Himself to those that became disciples. Jesus is trying to convince Nicodemus to become a disciple. Nicodemus and the Pharisees rejected the very thing many do today-baptism. Jesus made a simple statement- "If I tell you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things"?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#85 Jul 13, 2013
Bobby needs to get out his concordance and look up and study what is said about works by everyone but Paul, and then only what is said by Paul - then see who he believes. There is only one gospel - to the Jews first, then the Gentiles - same gospel though.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#86 Jul 13, 2013
Bobby wrote:
We have the same promise as Abraham.
1 cor 3:11 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Why did God choose Abraham? That Genesis 26:5 must be mistranslated?

I an employer gave an employee orientation training and a duties to perform, should the employee to everything in their scope of work, or can the employee say because he was there 40 hours, regardless of the work he did, that he deserves to be paid for not working? Jesus taught enough about faithful servants that the same basic principle applies.

Even Paul went to Synagogue on the Sabbath and kept the appointed days of God....not to mention that he worked uncommonly hard to reach the crown of life and the end of the race.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#87 Jul 14, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Our take on this doesn't allow for faith only. But it allows for anyone who believes and is baptized. Bobby still sees this as works and may reject our take on this.
This thread reveals how much we are still tied to our works. Everyone here believes he is saved even though everyone one us us breaks his commands. Some, more than others believe that our obedience has everything to do with our salvation. Then comes the question that we must completely understand everything to be saved. And, is the gospel more than the promise of a deliverer who will save us from our sin? Look around and you will see that the most difficult part of witnessing to the lost is getting them to believe that Jesus is the son of God. In fact we are now living in a society that rejects these facts: They reject the idea they are sinners and say there is no God. Faith is the much larger issue!

How can a sinner be saved if he believes he can save himself through his works? Does that kind of faith sound like what we hear from the catholics-yes it does. Obedience is what God desires from us but not in order to get saved-otherwise the gospel has no power and Jesus died for nothing-we would be saving ourselves without the necessity of Jesus shed blood.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#88 Jul 14, 2013
I was just thinking that we don't baptize babies nor baptize for the dead, Why? because faith is the issue. Faith is what cause us to obey.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#89 Jul 14, 2013
Bobby wrote:
I was just thinking that we don't baptize babies nor baptize for the dead, Why? because faith is the issue. Faith is what cause us to obey.
The only reason you don't baptize YOUR babies is you confused.

All Christians baptized their babies up until the 18th and 19th century when the protestant groups began to splinter rapidly due to personal interpretation of the scriptures. These days, you will find the mainstream protestants and the Orthodox still carrying on the infant baptism. Pax Christi

Baptism as the new circumcision. Genesis 17:12-13 says circumcision is to happen on the eighth day (the first day that the blood can coagulate, suggesting God knew a bit more about medicine than modern athiests give Him credit for). It's an "everlasting covenant."

In Christ, the Covenant is no longer performed physically, but spiritually, through Baptism (Colossians 2:11-12).

Parents deciding for kids. This one is pretty easy. Some folks feel weird about deciding that their kid will be a Christian, instead of letting the kid have a personal conversion experience or decide for him/herself.

That's modern nuttiness. As Joshua says in Joshua 24:15, "as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#90 Jul 14, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
This thread reveals how much we are still tied to our works. Everyone here believes he is saved even though everyone one us us breaks his commands. Some, more than others believe that our obedience has everything to do with our salvation. Then comes the question that we must completely understand everything to be saved. And, is the gospel more than the promise of a deliverer who will save us from our sin? Look around and you will see that the most difficult part of witnessing to the lost is getting them to believe that Jesus is the son of God. In fact we are now living in a society that rejects these facts: They reject the idea they are sinners and say there is no God. Faith is the much larger issue!
How can a sinner be saved if he believes he can save himself through his works? Does that kind of faith sound like what we hear from the catholics-yes it does. Obedience is what God desires from us but not in order to get saved-otherwise the gospel has no power and Jesus died for nothing-we would be saving ourselves without the necessity of Jesus shed blood.
James is a great book. Here we have the Lord's brother who converted after His resurrection from the dead - perhaps no one of record knew Jesus better than his brother, as well as what He taught - although for a long time James thought He was out of His mind. Does James speak about 'faith only'? Grace only? Works only? No. It's a package deal, and as James notes in the very first chapter, it's about being hearers and doers of His words that lead to eternal life. It's a grave mistake to divide what God has joined together - be it about Abraham and the promises God made to him, his descendants, or the Seed through whom all the nations would be blessed.

If you don't believe Jesus or James and choose to misinterpret what Paul said and just pick what you want from Paul's words, that is your right to disbelieve and yet claim yourself on the way to heaven - but I think it's rather the sure way to guarantee the Lord saying 'Depart from Me, I never knew you.'

I think you have a great love for the Lord - don't let men keep you from what should be rightfully yours. God has given you the power to become a son of God - don't just leave it on the shelf and say you don't need it! The Spirit was given that you might have the righteousness defined by God on your heart to do it from your heart!

No one here has ever said works save them, so stop making things up!
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#91 Jul 14, 2013
If someone says they don't believe in God, they are either a fool or you aren't giving them reason to believe.

Have you ever seen Ron Wyatt's 'Revealing God's Treasure'?

Many have been convinced the Bible is fairy-tales. The DVD shows actual proof the Bible is real, as God lead Ron to discover and document:
Noah's Ark
The Red Sea Crossing
Sodom and Gommorah
Mt. Sinai
The Ark of the Covenant

Reports are that when people see this video that shows real things that prove the Bible accounts true, that they are then very interested to read the Bible.

Pretty fantastic stuff.

arkdiscovery.com
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

#92 Jul 14, 2013
Bobby wrote:
because faith is the issue. Faith is what cause us to obey.
Yes faith is the issue. Faith is what causes us to obey. That's why the crowd responded on Pentecost. Bobby, we all are better off to stop worrying about what specific point God forgives us. He knows better than we do. We have faith and respond, he takes care of the rest. You've done that. Arguing over what point it happens is pointless- I know very well.

We believe God and His promises, we should respond. God saves us through the blood of His Son. Ultimately, at what specific point no longer matters to me, as long as God keeps His words.

Age old argument- chicken or egg. Either way, without the other you don't have either one. Faith comes first after hearing the word, we believe, we act. God saves us.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#93 Jul 14, 2013
If we are going to do good works lets get busy and do the things he has called us to- to preach the gospel, help the weak, to feed the poor, clothe the naked.

What good does it do for us to argue about whether or not works save us if we are doing nothing with the gospel. Are we going to talk it to death or do something? Lets go to a nursing home or work in a soup kitchen, help our neighbors. There are plenty of works for us to busy ourselves with.

Maybe we should take some time off from here and do some productive work and then have a conference about what we learned about working as an anointed child of the King, knowing that our place in the kingdom is already secure in Christ.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

#94 Jul 14, 2013
Bobby wrote:
If we are going to do good works lets get busy and do the things he has called us to- to preach the gospel, help the weak, to feed the poor, clothe the naked.
What good does it do for us to argue about whether or not works save us if we are doing nothing with the gospel. Are we going to talk it to death or do something? Lets go to a nursing home or work in a soup kitchen, help our neighbors. There are plenty of works for us to busy ourselves with.
Maybe we should take some time off from here and do some productive work and then have a conference about what we learned about working as an anointed child of the King, knowing that our place in the kingdom is already secure in Christ.
I agree. I don't want to quit talking to you or anyone else. I like it. We discuss things to death that honestly, only usually apply to one day a week or the time we become Christians. While it's important, we have 6 other days a week and a lifetime (God willing) to get the rest in order.

I don't want to go back to the old "what point are we saved-what is the gospel-baptism-perfect knowledge" stuff. In Christ our position in the kingdom is secure.

One verse that has hit me hard is this one- "And the Master said to the slave, Go out into highways and along the ledges, and compel them to come in, that My house may be filled." If I was in Texas I'd be honored to go along side you and help to do that sir.

Let's do "go to work" and help show the world how great our Master is. Let's not do it to earn His favor; let's do it because He already showed us His favor, and want to glorify Him in it. That was today's lesson- one element of being born again is to live our lives for Him that died for us.

*That doesn't mean we should leave Topix Bobby. You have no idea how much you, BW, Randy and others have helped me the last few months. Made me study, learn, grow, and show a little more grace to others. Not to mention accepting others I wouldn't have accepted earlier.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#95 Jul 14, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did God choose Abraham? That Genesis 26:5 must be mistranslated?
I an employer gave an employee orientation training and a duties to perform, should the employee to everything in their scope of work, or can the employee say because he was there 40 hours, regardless of the work he did, that he deserves to be paid for not working? Jesus taught enough about faithful servants that the same basic principle applies.
Even Paul went to Synagogue on the Sabbath and kept the appointed days of God....not to mention that he worked uncommonly hard to reach the crown of life and the end of the race.
Abraham was justified by faith in gen 15 before the events of gen 26:5

Gen 15:6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Abraham was indeed a faithful obedient follower but it was his faith that was credited to him as righteousness.

If Jesus had sinned like Abraham did on several occasions would God have allowed him to be the perfect sacrifice-no! Jesus earned the right to be our redeemer.

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

I am pretty sure salvation is offered as a gift not something we earn.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#96 Jul 14, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes faith is the issue. Faith is what causes us to obey. That's why the crowd responded on Pentecost. Bobby, we all are better off to stop worrying about what specific point God forgives us. He knows better than we do. We have faith and respond, he takes care of the rest. You've done that. Arguing over what point it happens is pointless- I know very well.
We believe God and His promises, we should respond. God saves us through the blood of His Son. Ultimately, at what specific point no longer matters to me, as long as God keeps His words.
Age old argument- chicken or egg. Either way, without the other you don't have either one. Faith comes first after hearing the word, we believe, we act. God saves us.
Yes, I can see you are in about the same place i was before I left the coc. Not saying you have to be where I am in my faith to be my brother and I don't think I have to be where you are, that is the beauty of grace, we can be wrong about some things and not have it be a fellowship issue. Heck, it could even be me that is wrong, but I am not ready to concede the issue:-)
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#97 Jul 14, 2013
Isn't every disciple wrong about something once in a while? Tell you what- whenever we find out who is right on a lot of things, how about we just enjoy where we are and not gloat about who's right-don't think we'll be worried about it anyway.

The gospel is simple. I think sometimes we professional and amateur theologians make it harder than God intended.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#98 Jul 14, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Isn't every disciple wrong about something once in a while? Tell you what- whenever we find out who is right on a lot of things, how about we just enjoy where we are and not gloat about who's right-don't think we'll be worried about it anyway.
The gospel is simple. I think sometimes we professional and amateur theologians make it harder than God intended.
I guess that is why I keep talking about grace. Legalism is bondage and when we are under that bondage we usually do not even realize it. The flip side is when people begin to think there is no standard for righteous living and begin to live any way they like. I think that is one reason the church is beginning to decline. Some are beginning to call evil good and good evil.

I bet everyone of us has a friend or family member who has turned from faith in God.

Thanks for your encouragement!
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#99 Jul 14, 2013
The homosexual thread is a good example of evil being good and good being evil today.

We are to encourage one another, stir each other to good works. That's the real point of our weekly assemblies-and it can be part of what we do here. We all need encouragement.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#100 Jul 15, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Water baptism is an obedience issue not a salvation issue.
22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a [t]sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from [u]the heart, 23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

What did obedience to the truth here do to the soul???

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#101 Jul 15, 2013
Bobby wrote:

Maybe we should take some time off from here and do some productive work and then have a conference about what we learned about working as an anointed child of the King, knowing that our place in the kingdom is already secure in Christ.
Wow talk about works salvation.
William

Fruithurst, AL

#102 Jul 15, 2013
They all think that works either are a part of getting saved or have a role in "staying saved". Both of which make a mockery of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection.

But that is what religion does for ya. Have to die to really find out if you made it to heaven.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#103 Jul 15, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow talk about works salvation.
Thank you, that was the point I was making. But I do believe that we should be doing those things not because we are required to, rather because we see the need to and our heart is moved to do something. Doing those things does not save us, it is because we are saved that we respond.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Martinsville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
How does the Spirit teach? 2 hr Mike_Peterson 164
water baptism debate 3 hr HEATH - 72 1
What Does Johnny Robertson Say 3 hr johnny 39
Have Johnny Robertson and his COC been defeated? (Jan '13) Feb 23 Mike_Peterson 343
What shows up in a background check? (Dec '13) Feb 20 Ben 3
How can i get a copy of my background check? (Nov '13) Feb 20 Diamond 4
Does Johnny Robertson have terminal Cancer? (Oct '09) Feb 12 mek 8
Martinsville Dating
Find my Match
More from around the web

Martinsville People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 7:54 am PST