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Army of God

Stafford, VA

#1 Sep 26, 2009
Baptism does not beget life; it does not impart the principle of spiritual life.

Unless one has been already begotten of the Spirit, there can be no spiritual birth in baptism; but when one has been begotten of the Spirit, there can be no true development of spiritual life without a birth--without baptism. The birth in baptism introduces the principle of life formerly imparted into the church or body of Christ, that in that body it may find the spiritual food and training needed to develop spiritual life.

We are to be baptized into Christ, or into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We are "to fulfill all righteousness."

The Church of Christ denomination are not the only denomination that will be in heaven. Your baptism is just as valid as theirs!

Here are three distinct motives placed by God before man to lead him to consecrate himself to God in baptism:(1) That which moved Christ--the desire of fulfilling all righteousness, or doing the whole will of God; (2) the general, leading design that includes all special ends, motives, and promises--the desire of entering into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; (3) the seeking of the remission of sins, relying on the name of Jesus Christ. These are all scriptural and divine motives. A person led through faith to baptism by any one of these is led by God. They are divine leadings; and when a person comes to baptism by a divine leading, that baptism is acceptable service. Unless one is brought to it by a divine leading, it is not acceptable. There are still other divine motives, other special ones, presented to lead man to baptism. These are really different forms of expressing the same leading motive. All the forms lead in the same path.

To be baptized "to fulfill all righteousness" is to be led by God into baptism, to be baptized from the same reason that Jesus was, and is acceptable service. To be baptized into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is to follow the divine leading, and is acceptable baptism. To be baptized relying upon Jesus Christ, in order that he may forgive our sins, is to be led by God into baptism. Whenever man is led by God into baptism, the baptism is acceptable to God.
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#2 Sep 26, 2009
Mr Shawn"Heath" Paden, Johnny's number one supporter, has already confessed that part of Acts 2:38 isn't a fellowship issue. The reason being is because he and JR do not teach both promises( the remission of sins AND the gift of the Holy Spirit) and the Greek word 'eis' is tied to remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

He wishes to exclude other denominations because of their supposed misunderstanding of part Acts 2:38, while allowing others to lack understanding of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Shawn if you accept men who disagree on the indwelling of the Spirit, you should follow your logic throughout Acts 2:38, not just the part you have been taught.
Mr T

Fredericksburg, VA

#3 Sep 26, 2009
If I understand Johnny, just having instrumental music in a church is enough to condemn you, so what way you were baptized wouldn't matter to him if instruments were used in the church service. Of course it is OK to enable degenerates and felons to operate a tv station. Did everybody see Bob Sharp's friend tell all about him last week? That was wholesome family programming. Thanks Johnny for sponsoring filth.
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#4 Sep 26, 2009
Lets don't forget to thank Shawn too. Johnny has put around 1 million bucks into Channel 18 via the hands of Shawn and others within the radical hyper-conservative Church of Christ.

Because of their funding, they enabled Channel 18 to purchase tons of "R" rated movies.

Way to go Johnny!
Mr T

Fredericksburg, VA

#5 Sep 26, 2009
Army of God wrote:
Lets don't forget to thank Shawn too. Johnny has put around 1 million bucks into Channel 18 via the hands of Shawn and others within the radical hyper-conservative Church of Christ.
Because of their funding, they enabled Channel 18 to purchase tons of "R" rated movies.
Way to go Johnny!
Do these people who back Johnny financially not know what kind of trash programming they enable? Do they not know the so-called reporters are convicted felons and degenerates? They should visit the star news site and see Bob Sharp's own housemate describing him in terms best not printed here (that's how bad it is). Your church dollars back in Texas or wherever promote garbage and filth on tv here in this area. Hey Shawn care to address what you pay to enable? Let's hear from you on this.
Jason

Stafford, VA

#6 Sep 26, 2009
Interesting comments. I've preached in the church of Christ for 26 years. I've never heard anyone specifically say a person must be baptized by a minister within the church of Christ for it to be "effective," but I've known many who were suspicious if they were not! In our congregation we accept anyone who says they were baptized anywhere. I don't feel it is our right to decide for them about their baptism.

I came into this discussion late and don't know if it is still continuing, but I found many interesting comments.

You are also correct, we never ask a person to be baptized in order to receive the Holy Spirit. I am not certain why Heath would deny such. We also are divided over this as well as one cup communion vs. multiple cups and a list of other things.

I have your email.

Thanks,
Jason
Heath

Dallas, TX

#7 Sep 26, 2009
I've had fellowship with brethren who use one cup.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't support orphan homes from the collection.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't eat in church buildings.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't have Bible classes.

I've had fellowship with brethren differ with me on many optional matters.

Each congregation decides it's on method of doing things. That's why there's varity.

www.roysecitycoc.org
Heath

Dallas, TX

#8 Sep 26, 2009
John Calvin (on Mark 16:16, Presbyterian, The Institutes of the Christian Religion)- "He commanded all who believe to be baptized for the remission of sins. Therefore, those who have imagined that baptism is nothing more than a mark or a sign, by which we profess our religion before men, as soldiers wear the insignia of their sovereign as a mark of thier profession, have not considered what was the principle thing in baptism, which is, that he ought to recieve it with the promise,'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.' The word baptize means immerse, and it is certain...immersion was observed in the early church."

John Wesley (Methodist, Notes on the New Testament on Romans 6:3 and John 3:5)- "We are buried with Him, alluding to the ancient manner of baptizing by immersion...by water then as a means, the water of baptism, we are regenerated or born again; whence it is also called by the apostle,'The washing of regeneration.'"

Martin Luther (Lutheran, Works, Volume XI - "On this accusation I could wish that such as are baptized should be completely immersed in water according to the meaning of the word, and the significance of the ordinance...as also, without the doubt, it was instructed by Christ."

Timothy Dwight (Congrgationalist, the former president of Yale University on John 3:5 - "To be born of water here means baptism, and in my view, it is necessary to our admission into the visible church."

Adam Clarke (Methodist, commentary on Romans 6:4)- "It is probable that the apostle here alludes to the mode of administering baptism by immersion, the whole body being put under water."

Adam Clarke (Colossians 2:12)- "Alluding to the immersion practiced in the case of adults wherein the person appeared to be buried under the water, as Christ was buried in the heart of the earth. His rising again the third day, and their emerging from the water, was an emblem of the resurrection of the body and in them of a total change in life."

Lenski (Lutheran)- "This baptism...as appointment for all nations bestowed the remission of sins." "a refusal of baptism would be a repudiation of Christ and of all the gifts contained in His name." "Baptism is pure Gospel that conveys grace and salvation from God through Christ..."

Albert Barnes (Presbyterian)- "Baptism is a willingness to be pardoned in that way, and it is a soemn declaration of our conviction that there is no other way of remission. He who comes to be baptized, comes with a profound conviction that he is a sinner, that there is no other way of mercy but in the gospel, and with a professed willingess to comply with the terms of salvation, and to recieve it as it is offered through Jesus Christ."

Expositor's Greek New Testament (on Acts 2:38)- "As each individual was to be baptized, so each, if truly penitent would recieve the forgiveness of sins."

Pulpit Commentary - "Peter preaches the Word with power, the hearers are pricked in their heart, and by his direction they are baptized, and so put in possession of the promised salvation." "Paul teaches that we are baptized into the death of Christ, and are so freed from sin." "As our burial or total immersion, in baptismal water, was followed by an entire emergence, so our death with Christ to sin, which that immersion symbolized, is to be followed by our resurrection with him to a new life."

Baptist Scholars on Acts 2:38:
A. Dr. Hackett - "In order to the forgiveness of sins"
B. Harkness - "For the purpose of recieving forgiveness of sins."
C. Harman - "Repentence and baptism are necessary for the forgiveness of sins"
D. Harper - "Remission of sins is the end to be aimed at in the action expressed by the predicates,'repent and be baptized'"

www.roysecitycoc.org
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#9 Sep 26, 2009
Lets don't forget to thank Shawn too. Johnny has put around 1 million bucks into Channel 18 via the hands of Shawn and others within the radical hyper-conservative Church of Christ.

Because of their funding, they enabled Channel 18 to purchase tons of "R" rated movies.

Way to go Johnny!
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#10 Sep 26, 2009
We are to be baptized into Christ, or into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We are "to fulfill all righteousness."

The Church of Christ denomination are not the only denomination that will be in heaven. Your baptism is just as valid as theirs!
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#11 Sep 26, 2009
btw, Heath knows not every one cupper will fellowship with him. He is hiding the facts, so people think they do not split. Just Google this and see. The conservative Church split over this.

Lets don't forget to thank Shawn too. Johnny has put around 1 million bucks into Channel 18 via the hands of Shawn and others within the radical hyper-conservative Church of Christ.

Because of their funding, they enabled Channel 18 to purchase tons of "R" rated movies.

Way to go Johnny!
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#13 Sep 26, 2009
I couldn't help but laugh a bit when Shawn said:

"I've had fellowship with brethren who use one cup.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't support orphan homes from the collection.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't eat in church buildings.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't have Bible classes.

I've had fellowship with brethren differ with me on many optional matters.

Each congregation decides it's on method of doing things. That's why there's varity."

-- The reason he states the above is because he also knows that some assemblies will not assemble with each other. Notice too, that their disagreements are merely "optional matters" -- he wants to play the expedient card now. Also, notice he left out the issue where they don't agree about the Holy Spirit indwelling in the believer. He knows this is clearly doctrinal, not an expedient. He also left out marriage, divorce and remariage, because some split over this too, which is also clearly doctrinal.

Regardless, they split over many things and claim they "speak the same things"...
Heath

Dallas, TX

#14 Sep 26, 2009
"The Church of Christ denomination are not the only denomination that will be in heaven."

2 Opinions 5:9

lol

www.roysecitycoc.org
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#15 Sep 26, 2009
btw, Heath knows not every one cupper will NOT fellowship with him. He is hiding the facts, so people think they do not split. Just Google this and see. The conservative Church split over this.

Lets don't forget to thank Shawn too. Johnny has put around 1 million bucks into Channel 18 via the hands of Shawn and others within the radical hyper-conservative Church of Christ.

Because of their funding, they enabled Channel 18 to purchase tons of "R" rated movies.

Way to go Johnny!
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#16 Sep 26, 2009
Shawn Heath says: my Church is the only one headed to heaven even if we disagree, least we don't disagree much as others.

3 opinions 6.66

-- thanks for providing Chanel 18 with 1 million bucks over the past 10 years; that bought tons of R rated movies---all because of you and other radicals.
Army of God

Stafford, VA

#17 Sep 26, 2009
I couldn't help but laugh a bit when Shawn said:

"I've had fellowship with brethren who use one cup.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't support orphan homes from the collection.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't eat in church buildings.

I've had fellowship with brethren who don't have Bible classes.

I've had fellowship with brethren differ with me on many optional matters.

Each congregation decides it's on method of doing things. That's why there's varity."

-- The reason he states the above is because he also knows that some assemblies will not assemble with each other. Notice too, that their disagreements are merely "optional matters" -- he wants to play the expedient card now.

Also, notice he left out the issue where they don't agree about the Holy Spirit indwelling in the believer. He knows this is clearly doctrinal, not an expedient. He also left out marriage, divorce and remarriage, because some split over this too, which is also clearly doctrinal.

Regardless, they split over many things and claim they "speak the same things"
Mr T

Fredericksburg, VA

#18 Sep 26, 2009
Heath wrote:
I've had fellowship with brethren who use one cup.
I've had fellowship with brethren who don't support orphan homes from the collection.
I've had fellowship with brethren who don't eat in church buildings.
I've had fellowship with brethren who don't have Bible classes.
I've had fellowship with brethren differ with me on many optional matters.
Each congregation decides it's on method of doing things. That's why there's varity.
www.roysecitycoc.org
No comment on the trash tv station you associate with and financially enable? The type of people who run it and staff it? The kind of "reporting" they do? Come on, now.
Heath

Dallas, TX

#19 Sep 27, 2009
Mr T wrote:
<quoted text>
No comment on the trash tv station you associate with and financially enable? The type of people who run it and staff it? The kind of "reporting" they do? Come on, now.
Really? Is this the best you have?

Money is spent on air time.

If a pay someone to do a service (plummer) and they take the money I give them and go to R rated movie am I responsible?

www.roysecitycoc.org
Heath

Dallas, TX

#20 Sep 27, 2009
Army of God wrote:
Shawn Heath says: my Church is the only one headed to heaven even if we disagree, least we don't disagree much as others.
3 opinions 6.66
-- thanks for providing Chanel 18 with 1 million bucks over the past 10 years; that bought tons of R rated movies---all because of you and other radicals.
-- thanks for providing money to anyone you've paid who does evil with it--all because of you and others.

Notice how he dropped baptism to talk about R rated movies? lol!

www.roysecitycoc.org
Mr T

Fredericksburg, VA

#21 Sep 27, 2009
Heath wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Is this the best you have?
Money is spent on air time.
If a pay someone to do a service (plummer) and they take the money I give them and go to R rated movie am I responsible?
www.roysecitycoc.org
Now look at this argument coming from someone representing Rose City Church of Christ. It doesn't matter who you have dealings with as long as you get your service? My argument is bad? What about 1 Thessalonians 5:22 or 1 Corinthians 5:9? Is The Bible full of bad arguments too Shawn? Being probably the primary financial enabler of this bunch of degenerates is OK at Rose City? Next time they broadcast some Jerry Springer trash let's all remember this station would not be able to bring you this programming without the funds received from Rose City Church of Christ and their friends. This is who Rose City and friends choose to associate their church with.

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