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21 - 40 of 132 Comments Last updated Apr 26, 2013
William

Birmingham, AL

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#22
Apr 16, 2013
 
"Tell me your understanding of impossible. You said that's what it says .... so what does it mean?"

It means exactly what it says.

Since: Jul 11

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#23
Apr 16, 2013
 
William wrote:
"Tell me your understanding of impossible. You said that's what it says .... so what does it mean?"
It means exactly what it says.
Are you taking the R.C. Sproul approach on this verse, stating it actually supports eternal security? Some contend the writer to be using hyperbole or a fable of sorts to make a point that once you are in Christ, its impossible to be renewed again unto repentance Ö thus impossible to be unsaved then saved again because it would make the Blood of Christ none effect.
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#24
Apr 16, 2013
 
The writer of Hebrews (and it wasn't Paul) is telling the Hebrews that if they fell away it is impossible to renew them unto repentance.

That is what the verses say, do they not? Is there some form of "private interpretation" needed to decipher them?

Since: Jul 11

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#25
Apr 16, 2013
 
Then you agree- they fell away thus became unsaved?
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#26
Apr 16, 2013
 
Some of those Hebrews probably did. Good thing we are not Hebrews, huh.
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#27
Apr 16, 2013
 
And this should be a heads-up for the "we are spiritual Israel today" crowd.

You really want to take on what Hebrews 6 says?

Since: May 10

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#28
Apr 16, 2013
 
Hebrews 6

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance,[d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Since: Jul 11

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#29
Apr 16, 2013
 
Oh, I see. We are back to the TWO gospels- one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles.

So, Jews today, who are saved, can they become unsaved .... BUT us Gentiles canít fall away if we tried?? Or did that only mean those Jews that the writer of Hebrews was addressing?
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#30
Apr 16, 2013
 
No, there are not two gospels today. There is only the gospel of the grace of God, for Jew and gentile alike, for there is no difference.

But there clearly WAS a difference when the writer of Hebrews penned that epistle, with the holy spirit guiding his pen.

So what gives?

Since: May 10

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#31
Apr 16, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
Oh, I see. We are back to the TWO gospels- one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles.
So, Jews today, who are saved, can they become unsaved .... BUT us Gentiles canít fall away if we tried?? Or did that only mean those Jews that the writer of Hebrews was addressing?
If there are two gospels I would like to chose. Since there are not. I have only one choice to obey the gospel presented to all equally both Jew and Gentile, and if after accepting the gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit I turn back away I am in trouble.
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#32
Apr 16, 2013
 
There are NOT TWO GOSPELS TODAY.

But there were back when Peter and Paul were both around. Galatians 2 confirms it.

If you have a copy of a 1611 King James Bible, that is.

Since: May 10

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#33
Apr 16, 2013
 
William wrote:
There are NOT TWO GOSPELS TODAY.
But there were back when Peter and Paul were both around. Galatians 2 confirms it.
If you have a copy of a 1611 King James Bible, that is.
Dont have that one.:)
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#34
Apr 16, 2013
 
So I've noticed

I got my copy from Amazon.com for about $24.
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

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#35
Apr 16, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
We have butted heads on this before, but I still respect you a lot.
I value your comments even when I don't agree with them and would glad to call you brother, you have my respect as always!
Bobby wrote:
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One of the problems with this thinking is that it leads us to a place where we live in fear that our next sin will render us as forever lost.
But there is where I become an odd Duck again, because I first believe that mercy is a key element to God's plan and that he has more common sense then all the men for all time who will ever live. Thus if I slip up and die in the moment of the slip, if in my dieing thoughts I am repentant I am still in good standing with God, those elements that are not worthy of him will be burnt away but those that are of his will will be for his glory.

I don't live in fear of slipping, I slip to many times, frustration over an issue with family or nation or work. If it is all about my ability to hold to the rules then I am as dead as I was before I found God. Granted I can see how people could easily get so caught up in their actions to lose the ability to see themselves in relationship to the perfect lamb of God, usually this is when we start comparing ourselves to others, forgetting the standard like the gold standard of old is always Jesus and his perfection and thus we all fall short. This should keep us humble if we compare ourselves to Jesus instead of others. It is why God says to get rid of the log in our own eye before going after the smaller stick in our brothers eye, because we have the easily ability to allow our egos to overtake our minds.
Bobby wrote:
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Any sin is sin therefore any sin can destroy us even if we are believers.
But if Jesus asked us to forgive others seventy times seven to show us that forgiveness is a never ending process, then surely God will also forgive those who are repentant. I grew up and learned to cuss like a sailor, I could make a grown man blush. That old habit wants to rear it's head at moments of stress, and sometimes I have failed and in those times I am repentant for that failure.(Make a note of that Johnny for the day you finally meet me face to face ;=P ) if I remain in a sin and are unwilling to repent and basically say to heck with you God, then I am lost and will be lost because I have placed my will before God's and am doing so consistently without remorse. Why do you think God said to go get all those you can find both good and evil? Because he is willing to help us turn from our ways of the flesh and follow the ways of the Spirit! He is patient and like the Father in the prodigal he looks at the horizon longing for a return of his lost and dead son! Already planning the celebration when he returns!
Bobby wrote:
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That seems pretty drastic to me.
If someone falls into a total legalistic system with no grace or mercy or common sense like the pharisees of old it would be! The key is to balance grace and mercy with obedience. This allows us to want to do things that please God, not because we fear the Holy Fly Swatter suddenly appearing to crush us, but because of all that he has done for us we want to shine for him to give him glory!

Bobby wrote:
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On the flip side some evangelicals do indeed take their freedom in Christ for granted.
And that was happening in the early church, it is why Paul asked the rhetorical question should we sin so that grace could abound more, his answer was a firm NO! But if we do sin we have Jesus to mediate for us, the clothes we wear are of Christ, it is he who does the perfecting, it is he whom God sees us as instead of in our sins.

More...
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

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#36
Apr 16, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I would rather take my chances on God's grace than my own ability to not sin.
I think what we may be missing is that we still have a sinful nature as long as we live in this body the war will rage on.
Paul again speaks of the war between spirit and flesh, that sometimes the flesh may win but our goal and longing is that we please the spirit because we want to please the one who did it all for us.

Can you imagine how it must have been to have all the sins for all time resting on your soul, hanging on the cross and for the first time you are without contact with the Father? Jesus went to the grave to bury our sins with him, he did that last mile alone, on his own, enduring the wrath of God for all of us.

How could we not want to please him who carried so much for us! And how could a God who loved us so much he was willing to do the ONLY thing that could be done to regain us suddenly go completely rules lawyer on us and send us to hell because we slipped once. This is the same God that realized that eating on the sabbath by picking wheat was not work it was mercy!

And mercy will rule over judgement! THANK GOD!!
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

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#37
Apr 16, 2013
 
The real issue for many is that when you combine mercy into the letter of the law, things start to get gray, and gray to a black and white person is very very frightening!
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

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#38
Apr 16, 2013
 
William wrote:
There are NOT TWO GOSPELS TODAY.
But there were back when Peter and Paul were both around. Galatians 2 confirms it.
If you have a copy of a 1611 King James Bible, that is.
Actually in Galatians 2 there were people trying to add conditions to the New Covenant that did not belong, circumcision for one. God made it easy by using the ONE baptism for the more difficult circumcision thus the Gentiles could easily enter into the Yoke that Jesus spoke of as being easy. Unfortunately the Jewish believers thought that the old covenant was still to be followed. This struggle with those who wanted elements of the old law was to plague Paul as long as he lived and would finally get him arrested.
William

Opelika, AL

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#39
Apr 16, 2013
 
They were trying to add circumcision and law keeping to grace. They could not accept that Christ had died for people's sins, and was resurrected for them because of the faith OF Jesus Christ (verse 2:16).

They hated the very idea that all the work for salvation had been done by someone else. And that very sentiment exists to this day.
Mike Peterson

Madison, MS

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#40
Apr 16, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
Life through the Spirit changes the dynamics as we now have help to overcome our sin.
"But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you."
I believe it is primarily the life of Christ in us that gives us strength to not sin. And when we do (and we will)it is still the righteousness of Christ living in us that keeps us saved. Jesus did not save us so we could continue sinning however he knows we will and he is prepared to deal with it.
Initial salvation.
Sanctification- process where God continues his work in us, he polishes us or as scripture says he molds us into the vessel he chooses for us to be.
Glorification-where sin is no more.
OSAS is man made doctrine that is only 500 years old. Jesus died 2000 years ago. Read the writings of the early church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles.

"And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For 'cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.'" Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, 10 ( A.D. 110).

"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time." Didache, 16 (A.D. 90).

But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwilling. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?" Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 (A.D. 204).

"Once saved always saved." Father Martin Luther: 1530.

“Regina A Steele Marrs”

Since: Jun 11

Big Rock,Va

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#41
Apr 16, 2013
 
One subject sorely missing is this.

Matt. 12:31-32

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Whether rejecting salvation or blaspheming againist the Holy Ghost, neither is forgivable.

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