Identifing the Early Church

Identifing the Early Church

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Since: Aug 14

Nigeria, Africa

#1 Aug 9, 2014
This sermon by former Priest Richard Bennett lays to rest the lies from the Roman Catholic Church and Identifies the True Early Church

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#2 Aug 9, 2014
Jimmy-Crack-Corn wrote:
This sermon by former Priest Richard Bennett lays to rest the lies from the Roman Catholic Church and Identifies the True Early Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =cbC9I09Hb-sXX
What do you think was the first Church and where is it now? Don't watch anti catholic videos . Nothing new on those.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3 Aug 9, 2014
Jimmy-Crack-Corn wrote:
This sermon by former Priest Richard Bennett lays to rest the lies from the Roman Catholic Church and Identifies the True Early Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =cbC9I09Hb-sXX
I forgot to ask. Since you posted his video , then I guess you believe everything he teaches?

Since: Aug 14

Nigeria, Africa

#4 Aug 11, 2014
Early documents from the history of the Church make this even more plain. The 35th canon of the Apostolic Canons (dated from the 2nd to 5th centuries) says:

The bishops of every country ought to know who is the chief among them, and to esteem him as their head, and not to do any great thing without his consent; but everyone to manage only the affairs that belong to his own parish, and the places subject to it. But let him not do anything without the consent of all; for it is by this means there will be unanimity, and God will be glorified by Christ, in the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, the Council of Nica's 6th canon read:

Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis prevail, that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges.

And a full three and a half centuries after Clement's epistle, an ecumenical council at Chalcedon could clearly recognize why Rome had the prerogatives she did, as seen in the 28th canon of Chalcedon:

Following in all things the decisions of the holy Fathers, and acknowledging the canon, which has been just read...we also do enact and decree the same things concerning the privileges of the most holy Church of Constantinople, which is New Rome. For the Fathers rightly granted privileges to the throne of old Rome, because it was the royal city. And the One Hundred and Fifty most religious Bishops, actuated by the same consideration, gave equal privileges to the most holy throne of New Rome, justly judging that the city which is honored with the Sovereignty and the Senate, and enjoys equal privileges with the old imperial Rome, should in ecclesiastical matters also be magnified as she is, and rank next after her.

When Ignatius wrote to the Romans, he not only did not address any one bishop (for there was no single bishop in Rome at the time), but he spoke of the "presidency" of Rome being one of love and honor, not universal jurisdiction, prompting Lightfoot to comment,

...this then was the original primacy of Rome-a primacy not of the bishop but of the whole church, a primacy not of official authority but of practical goodness, backed however by the prestige and the advantages which were necessarily enjoyed by the church of the metropolis.

Throughout the Epistle of Clement, the first person plural "we" is used, never "I." Clement does not speak as a Pope, does not "remonstrate" as a Pope. Instead, the church at Rome writes as a fellow and equal body of believers. This is the verdict of any honest, unbiased reading of the epistle.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#5 Aug 11, 2014
Jimmy-Crack-Corn wrote:
Early documents from the history of the Church make this even more plain. The 35th canon of the Apostolic Canons (dated from the 2nd to 5th centuries) says:
The bishops of every country ought to know who is the chief among them, and to esteem him as their head, and not to do any great thing without his consent; but everyone to manage only the affairs that belong to his own parish, and the places subject to it. But let him not do anything without the consent of all; for it is by this means there will be unanimity, and God will be glorified by Christ, in the Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the Council of Nica's 6th canon read:
Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis prevail, that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges.
And a full three and a half centuries after Clement's epistle, an ecumenical council at Chalcedon could clearly recognize why Rome had the prerogatives she did, as seen in the 28th canon of Chalcedon:
Following in all things the decisions of the holy Fathers, and acknowledging the canon, which has been just read...we also do enact and decree the same things concerning the privileges of the most holy Church of Constantinople, which is New Rome. For the Fathers rightly granted privileges to the throne of old Rome, because it was the royal city. And the One Hundred and Fifty most religious Bishops, actuated by the same consideration, gave equal privileges to the most holy throne of New Rome, justly judging that the city which is honored with the Sovereignty and the Senate, and enjoys equal privileges with the old imperial Rome, should in ecclesiastical matters also be magnified as she is, and rank next after her.
When Ignatius wrote to the Romans, he not only did not address any one bishop (for there was no single bishop in Rome at the time), but he spoke of the "presidency" of Rome being one of love and honor, not universal jurisdiction, prompting Lightfoot to comment,
...this then was the original primacy of Rome-a primacy not of the bishop but of the whole church, a primacy not of official authority but of practical goodness, backed however by the prestige and the advantages which were necessarily enjoyed by the church of the metropolis.
Throughout the Epistle of Clement, the first person plural "we" is used, never "I." Clement does not speak as a Pope, does not "remonstrate" as a Pope. Instead, the church at Rome writes as a fellow and equal body of believers. This is the verdict of any honest, unbiased reading of the epistle.
1/2 of this stuff you copied is about canon law and the Orthodox .

St Clement almost made the Bible. There was horse trading on that scripture. Philemon and 3rd Peter narrowly got voted in.

Why don't you read it. Here is the opening. Were is the Church at?



THE FIRST EPISTLE OF CLEMENT TO THE CORINTHIANS
St. Clement of Rome

Chap. I. The salutation. Praise of the Corinthians before the breaking forth of schism among them.
THE Church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the Church of God sojourning at Corinth, to them that are called and sanctified by the will of God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.

Those Corinthians were a tough bunch . Paul's letters did not solve the problem.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#6 Sep 6, 2014
Funny funny funny. The East was there from the start. Rome turned away from apostolic teaching. Catch this now. If there were always a "Pope" there would not have been any fuss..........duh. There was not Popes but Bishops and Rome wanted to be over all and we held to the teachings of the apostles and 1054 gives prove of this as does our unbroken chain

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#7 Sep 6, 2014
testing the spirits wrote:
Funny funny funny. The East was there from the start. Rome turned away from apostolic teaching. Catch this now. If there were always a "Pope" there would not have been any fuss..........duh. There was not Popes but Bishops and Rome wanted to be over all and we held to the teachings of the apostles and 1054 gives prove of this as does our unbroken chain
St. Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (d. A.D. 638)

“Teaching us all orthodoxy and destroying all heresy and driving it away from the God-protected halls of our holy Catholic Church. And together with these inspired syllables and characters, I accept all his (the pope’s) letters and teachings as proceeding from the mouth of Peter the Coryphaeus, and I kiss them and salute them and embrace them with all my soul … I recognize the latter as definitions of Peter and the former as those of Mark, and besides, all the heaven-taught teachings of all the chosen mystagogues of our Catholic Church.”– Sophronius, Mansi, xi. 461

St. Theodore the Studite of Constantinople (d. 826)
Writing to Pope Leo III:

Since to great Peter Christ our Lord gave the office of Chief Shepherd after entrusting him with the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, to Peter or his successor must of necessity every novelty in the Catholic Church be referred.[Therefore], save us, oh most divine Head of Heads, Chief Shepherd of the Church of Heaven.(Theodore, Bk. I. Ep. 23)

Sergius, Metropolitain of Cyprus (649)
Writing to Pope Theodore:

O Holy Head, Christ our God hath destined thy Apostolic See to be an immovable foundation and a pillar of the Faith. For thou art, as the Divine Word truly saith, Peter, and on thee as a foundation-stone have the pillars of the Church been fixed.(Sergius Ep. ad Theod. lecta in Sess. ii. Concil. Lat. anno 649)

1. St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (d. 407)

Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying,‘Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty …even denying the Lord.”(Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)

Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe.(Chrysostom, T. iii Hom)

Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church.(Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)

(Peter), the foundation of the Church, the Coryphaeus of the choir of the Apostles, the vehement lover of Christ …he who ran throughout the whole world, who fished the whole world; this holy Coryphaeus of the blessed choir; the ardent disciple, who was entrusted with the keys of heaven, who received the spiritual revelation. Peter, the mouth of all Apostles, the head of that company, the ruler of the whole world.(De Eleemos, iii. 4; Hom. de decem mille tal. 3)
Eyeseaewe

Germany

#8 Sep 6, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>

St Clement almost made the Bible. There was horse trading on that scripture. Philemon and 3rd Peter narrowly got voted in.
If that was how the canon was determined (horse trading and poker playing) then no wonder there is so many problems. We need some godly non Catholics to pray to God for direction in determining the real canon.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#9 Sep 7, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
St. Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (d. A.D. 638)
“Teaching us all orthodoxy and destroying all heresy and driving it away from the God-protected halls of our holy Catholic Church. And together with these inspired syllables and characters, I accept all his (the pope’s) letters and teachings as proceeding from the mouth of Peter the Coryphaeus, and I kiss them and salute them and embrace them with all my soul … I recognize the latter as definitions of Peter and the former as those of Mark, and besides, all the heaven-taught teachings of all the chosen mystagogues of our Catholic Church.”– Sophronius, Mansi, xi. 461
St. Theodore the Studite of Constantinople (d. 826)
Writing to Pope Leo III:
Since to great Peter Christ our Lord gave the office of Chief Shepherd after entrusting him with the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, to Peter or his successor must of necessity every novelty in the Catholic Church be referred.[Therefore], save us, oh most divine Head of Heads, Chief Shepherd of the Church of Heaven.(Theodore, Bk. I. Ep. 23)
Sergius, Metropolitain of Cyprus (649)
Writing to Pope Theodore:
O Holy Head, Christ our God hath destined thy Apostolic See to be an immovable foundation and a pillar of the Faith. For thou art, as the Divine Word truly saith, Peter, and on thee as a foundation-stone have the pillars of the Church been fixed.(Sergius Ep. ad Theod. lecta in Sess. ii. Concil. Lat. anno 649)
1. St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (d. 407)
Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying,‘Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty …even denying the Lord.”(Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)
Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe.(Chrysostom, T. iii Hom)
Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church.(Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)
(Peter), the foundation of the Church, the Coryphaeus of the choir of the Apostles, the vehement lover of Christ …he who ran throughout the whole world, who fished the whole world; this holy Coryphaeus of the blessed choir; the ardent disciple, who was entrusted with the keys of heaven, who received the spiritual revelation. Peter, the mouth of all Apostles, the head of that company, the ruler of the whole world.(De Eleemos, iii. 4; Hom. de decem mille tal. 3)
There were bishops over each local Church never a pope. If popes were the norm there would not have been the schism of 1054. Everything you cite above proves nothing. Rome sought for total control with ONE pope running all of the Church. The East did not give in to her then nor do we now. After this Rome continued to develop new teachings and it appears they still do.
Mike_Peterson

Ridgeland, MS

#10 Sep 7, 2014
testing the spirits wrote:
<quoted text>There were bishops over each local Church never a pope. If popes were the norm there would not have been the schism of 1054. Everything you cite above proves nothing. Rome sought for total control with ONE pope running all of the Church. The East did not give in to her then nor do we now. After this Rome continued to develop new teachings and it appears they still do.
History doesn't agree with you. We still love ya'll.

Being a little brother who left home with their feeling hurt must be hard.

Since: Dec 12

Royse City, TX

#11 Sep 22, 2014
this is just too funny. u boys could man up and go to our tents and man to man
defend the stuff you put on here but we know u boys just aunt going to do that
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#12 Sep 22, 2014
_Randy_ wrote:
this is just too funny. u boys could man up and go to our tents and man to man
defend the stuff you put on here but we know u boys just aunt going to do that
There is not much difference between you and the cathoilcs.

Both believe:
Salvation by works
water baptism saves
they alone are the only true church
etc
William

Birmingham, AL

#13 Sep 22, 2014
Bobby wrote:
There is not much difference between you and the cathoilcs.
Both believe:
Salvation by works
water baptism saves
they alone are the only true church
etc.
Diet Coke Catholics. Only about half the sacraments, and no pesky Pope aftertaste.

Exact same end result though.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#14 Sep 22, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Diet Coke Catholics. Only about half the sacraments, and no pesky Pope aftertaste.
Exact same end result though.
You are all Catholic lite. You low enders are the lightest in more ways than one. Every one of you came from the Catholic Church.
William

Birmingham, AL

#15 Sep 22, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
You are all Catholic lite. You low enders are the lightest in more ways than one. Every one of you came from the Catholic Church.
Protestantism is the redneck stepchild of Catholicism, who's own parent is a marriage of orthodox Judaism and eastern paganism.

Everybody knows it. Some just don't want to fess up to it.
Brad

Midlothian, VA

#16 Dec 3, 2014
You can't go wrong with Orthodoxy. We have a trail tracing all the way to the Apostles. We have not developed new teachings as our sister from Rome.
Mike_Peterson

United States

#17 Dec 4, 2014
6
Simon Peter said in reply,“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17
Jesus said to him in reply,“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Orthodox believe he was talking to all the Apostles even though he only addressed St Peter
Mike_Peterson

United States

#18 Dec 4, 2014
In John 21:15–17, with only the other Aposltes present (cf. John 21:2), Jesus asks Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?"—in other words, is Peter more devoted to him than the other disciples? When Peter responds that he is, Jesus instructs him: "Feed my lambs" (22:15). Thus we see Jesus describing the other disciples, the only other people who are present, the ones whom Jesus refers to as "these," as part of the lambs that he instructs Peter to feed, giving him the role of pastor (shepherd) over them. Again, a reference to Peter having more than merely a primacy of honor with respect to the other apostles, but a primacy of pastoral discipline as well.

“Ancient Faith ”

Since: Dec 14

Chevy Chase, MD

#19 Dec 4, 2014
Papal Supremacy, Indulgences, Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, Papal Infallibility, Created Grace, and Original Sin, are what divides us. Papal Supremacy being the top of the list. Since the Apostles we have not swayed from their teaching and we shall not sway lest we be found guilty of sin. Jesus told the apostles that they would sit on twelve thrones (Matt. 19:28) thus showing they were equal. When Jesus says, “Upon this rock I will build my Church” the Greek term for rock is not Petros but “PETRA” which means “bedrock.” This bedrock which the Church is built upon was always understood by the Greek Fathers and many Western Fathers to mean either Christ Himself, or the profession of faith in Christ’s Divinity. Moreover the “keys” were given to all the apostles (Matt. 18:18). Jesus was addressing them as a group. It is most interesting to note that when the disciples disputed among themselves as to who would be the greatest, they seemed unaware that Christ had made Peter, Pope (Lk. 22:24-27).

“Ancient Faith ”

Since: Dec 14

Chevy Chase, MD

#20 Dec 4, 2014
“Never let me hear that word again, for I know who you are and who I am. In position you are my brother, in character my father. I gave therefore no commands but only endeavored to point out what I thought was desirable. I said you ought not to use a title such as “Universal Bishop” in writing either to me or to anyone else, yet now in your last letter notwithstanding my prohibition, you have addressed me by the proud title of “Universal Pope”, I beg Your Holiness, whom I love so well—not to do this again”–St. Gregory

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