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Since: May 10

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#1 Jun 20, 2013
I cant remember whom on here was all hyped up about the coc people not practicing the Holy Kiss thing and was calling it a command. I found a scripture that proves that the Holy Kiss was not a command nor practiced by the early Christians.

It is Galatians
Galatians 2:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#2 Jun 20, 2013
It was whitman and WIL I believe pointing out that coc doesn't practice the holy kiss.

How does that verse negate Romans 16:16 and 1 Corinthians 16:20? The word "greet" in both is aspasasthe, an aorist middle imperative- a command.

Since: May 10

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#3 Jun 20, 2013
I have no idea what your saying. I just know that the holy Kiss is not a command that was followed as they suggested.

Since: Jul 11

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#4 Jun 20, 2013
Dave is correct. The verse you posted does not negate Romans 16:16 and 1 Corinthians 16:20.

Since: May 10

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#5 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Dave is correct. The verse you posted does not negate Romans 16:16 and 1 Corinthians 16:20.
So if a command to Kiss then Paul was in error?

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#6 Jun 20, 2013
The holy kiss is mentioned in the same verse as "the churches of Christ salute you." If the Robertson-gang of Church of Christ keeps bringing up the names of churches (Baptist, Methodist etc) as not being mentioned in the Bible but "churches of Christ" is the only acceptable name because it's in the Bible, what is Johnny's and Mark's reason for ignoring the first part of the verse?

It looks like the Churches of Christ pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow as much as anyone they accuse of being false and wrong.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#8 Jun 20, 2013
Osculo Sancto

Romans 16:16
I Corinthians 16:20
II Corinthians 13:12
I Thessalonians 5:26
I Peter 5:14

How many times does something have to appear in the New Testament before you Sola Scriptura folks adopt the practice? Seems once is enough for some things and five isn't enough for others.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#9 Jun 20, 2013
Olethros wrote:
The holy kiss is mentioned in the same verse as "the churches of Christ salute you." If the Robertson-gang of Church of Christ keeps bringing up the names of churches (Baptist, Methodist etc) as not being mentioned in the Bible but "churches of Christ" is the only acceptable name because it's in the Bible, what is Johnny's and Mark's reason for ignoring the first part of the verse?
It looks like the Churches of Christ pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow as much as anyone they accuse of being false and wrong.
I was the one who hung the holy kiss thing around Heath's neck, comparing it to the holy handshake, just to stir things up:-)
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

#10 Jun 20, 2013
This is a weak attempt to justify something that the church of Christ hardnoses do - lambasting everyone else for not being like the church of the New Testament with regards to music in worship, the name on the sign out front, baptism, etc. Then, when it's pointed out to them that they, too, are not like that church because they refuse to obey the command found multiple times to greet one another with a holy kiss, they mutter and muffle and whine that it's just a tradition, not a command.

And Galatians 2:9? There's no command there. There's no negation of anything else going on. So someone extended a hand of fellowship, and suddenly the commands of holy kissing are no more?

A weak attempt. A very weak attempt.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#11 Jun 20, 2013
Just so you know some people never forgot.

Lord's Prayer:

Priest: Let us pray with confidence to the Father in the words our Savior gave us.

All: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.

Sign of Peace:

Priest: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: I leave you peace, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever.
All: Amen.

Priest: The Peace of the Lord be with you always.
All: And also with you.

Deacon or Priest: Let us offer each other a sign of peace.
[The ministers and all the people exchange an embrace, handshake, or other appropriate gesture of peace with those near them, according to local custom.]
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#12 Jun 20, 2013
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
This is a weak attempt to justify something that the church of Christ hardnoses do - lambasting everyone else for not being like the church of the New Testament with regards to music in worship, the name on the sign out front, baptism, etc. Then, when it's pointed out to them that they, too, are not like that church because they refuse to obey the command found multiple times to greet one another with a holy kiss, they mutter and muffle and whine that it's just a tradition, not a command.
And Galatians 2:9? There's no command there. There's no negation of anything else going on. So someone extended a hand of fellowship, and suddenly the commands of holy kissing are no more?
A weak attempt. A very weak attempt.
Go to a Catholic Church this Sunday morning and you can see how the NT Churches worshiped. Or if are afraid somebody might see you, and disown you, watch it on TV when nobody is home.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#13 Jun 20, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
Just so you know some people never forgot.
Lord's Prayer:
Priest: Let us pray with confidence to the Father in the words our Savior gave us.
All: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.
Sign of Peace:
Priest: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: I leave you peace, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever.
All: Amen.
Priest: The Peace of the Lord be with you always.
All: And also with you.
Deacon or Priest: Let us offer each other a sign of peace.
[The ministers and all the people exchange an embrace, handshake, or other appropriate gesture of peace with those near them, according to local custom.]
And also just so you know these words are repeated countless times each day all around the world and in virtually every language known to humankind.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#14 Jun 20, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
I have no idea what your saying. I just know that the holy Kiss is not a command that was followed as they suggested.
I gave you the Greek word for "greet". It is an aorist middle imperative. Aorist-point action- right now! Middle voice- the person told has to respond. Imperative mode-is the mode of command. Paul COMMANDED them to greet each other with a holy kiss- as soon as you read this! The same for both Romans and 1 Corinthians.

The events in Galatians are related to the Jerusalem council. The Romans and Corinthians passage is general letters, not the council meeting.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#15 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Dave is correct. The verse you posted does not negate Romans 16:16 and 1 Corinthians 16:20.
This is both a ridiculous discussion and a very enlightening one. We all know the holy kiss was a custom in that day and still is there today in that area. The problem as X-man pointed out is that the legalistic coc condemn everyone else for ignoring God's commands, then change the nature of this one to justify themselves.

This is a classic example of the failure of the CENI-S mode of interpretation. I prefer the common sense interpretation mode. By the letter of the CENI-S law and coc interpretation, they better do the holy kiss or be in condemnation from God. This in the very strictest and literal use is a COMMAND from an inspired apostle. No different from baptism, repentance, or any other command we hold to.

How many of us actually believe that we stand in condemnation for using handshakes today instead of kisses? None of us. But when you read the NT like you read Leviticus or Deuteronomy; call it our new "rule book", this is the kind of stuff you get.

Let me also go ahead and give the catholic cavalry rebuttal:

Oldest. Pillar and Foundation. You are Peter. Sola scriptura. Low end prots. Uneducated coc. Eat His flesh. We wrote it. The end.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#16 Jun 20, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I was the one who hung the holy kiss thing around Heath's neck, comparing it to the holy handshake, just to stir things up:-)
This issue is the gift that keeps on giving. Actually quite useful one too.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#17 Jun 21, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Dave is correct. The verse you posted does not negate Romans 16:16 and 1 Corinthians 16:20.
Hey Guys, no NT verse negates another . The Bible is That/AND.

If God says you are saved by faith you are saved by Faith. If another verse says you are saved by Bapstism. You are also saved by Bapsism. If another verse says faith without works is dead.

You are saved by Faith, Baptism and works.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#18 Jun 21, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Guys, no NT verse negates another . The Bible is That/AND.
If God says you are saved by faith you are saved by Faith. If another verse says you are saved by Bapstism. You are also saved by Bapsism. If another verse says faith without works is dead.
You are saved by Faith, Baptism and works.
Many in the church of Christ will agree with this-are they saved yet?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#19 Jun 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Many in the church of Christ will agree with this-are they saved yet?
Nobody is saved until their judgement day unless they they die right after Baptism or die without un-confessed mortal sin. Since they don't have the sacrament of confession, they could not have committed mortal sin.

I think blasphemy of God's Church might be a mortal sin.

Its not too late to covert and confess that.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#20 Jun 21, 2013
die with no mortal sin that needs to be confessed.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#21 Jun 21, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody is saved until their judgement day unless they they die right after Baptism or die without un-confessed mortal sin. Since they don't have the sacrament of confession, they could not have committed mortal sin.
I think blasphemy of God's Church might be a mortal sin.
Its not too late to covert and confess that.
Works are not the cause of salvation, but justification before God and regeneration in the new believer, will result in good works.

Those are my words these are God's words-not the pope's:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

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