The Origin of the Roman Catholic Church
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#63 Aug 24, 2014
Forgot the link.

Question: "Why was Moses not allowed to enter the Promised Land?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-promised-la...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#64 Aug 24, 2014
The unbelief of the Jews and modern day jews.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/john/passage.a...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#65 Aug 24, 2014
Barnsweb often speaks about the everlasting covenant. Does anyone here know what the everlasting covenant is-it might not be what you think...

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#66 Aug 24, 2014
The priest says it at every Mass during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

“Take this, all of you, and drink from it: for this is the chalice of my Blood, the Blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for all for the forgiveness of sins. Do this in memory of me.”

“Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb.”

“Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.”

Since: May 14

Location hidden

#67 Aug 24, 2014
Bobby wrote:
The unbelief of the Jews and modern day jews.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/john/passage.a...
How exactly was Jesus the Messiah?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#68 Aug 25, 2014
Bobby wrote:
The law was not given to make men righteous. Men being in a fallen state living in a world of unrighteousness needs to know what it means to be a sinner. God gave the law to show us the difference-so that we could see our own nakedness. What we need is to be clothed in a righteousness we were not born with and the never earned. We were all born into a sin filled world in need of a savior.
Those who depend on their own righteousness will never see the kingdom of God.
It is real easy for us to know who they are.
The Word Brings Salvation
…2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.…
It is not that they did not have the word it came from a mindset of self righteousness.
Denying the apostle Paul will not change this truth! It is in the OT as well as the new.
Come home to truth-let no man stand between you and Jesus.
That's a decent paraphrase of what Paul taught about the Law and Commandments of God, but is that what God said about why He gave them the Law?

Go back to Exodus and see why God said He gave it to them and if keeping the commandments, laws, and precepts of righteousness was their part of the Everlasting Covenant that God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Then go to Deuteronomy and see the retelling of the events by Moses before he died.

I think you'll find that God said they were to be His unique possession who kept His instructions so the world would know how true, wonderful and gracious He is - they were to be His proof to the world. They didn't say 'It's too hard for us to keep', nor did God ever say anything He instructed them in was to difficult to do or to understand. So the fault was not with the instructions or any stated standard God gave them.

God gave them the Words that they would show Him to the world and that in so doing He would also bless them - not curse them. The curse only came in when they didn't keep their part of the Covenant.

His standards of righteousness for all men is unchanging. He judged the world before the flood - how so if sin could not be known apart from the Law? Was God unjust?!!!!
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#69 Aug 25, 2014
Do you believe Acts 3 is true, that Jesus came to turn us away from our iniquity? And "workers of 'iniquity'", per Jesus in the sermon on the mount, are those who are "anomia" or "without the Torah". It's right there in the Greek as well. Don't you want to be outside that group that He will say "Depart from Me, I never knew you!"?
William

Birmingham, AL

#70 Aug 25, 2014
"I think you'll find that God said they were to be His unique possession who kept His instructions so the world would know how true, wonderful and gracious He is - they were to be His proof to the world. They didn't say 'It's too hard for us to keep', nor did God ever say anything He instructed them in was to difficult to do or to understand. So the fault was not with the instructions or any stated standard God gave them."

So why did they fail? And Israel failed miserably, starting with their time in the desert before they came into the promised land. Then they failed, and failed, and failed some more.

The Acts 2 church then came along and it splintered and came apart. Acts 6:1 records the moment when that happened. James took that church over and back under the law they went. They were all zealous of a law that not a single one of them could live up to, but they sure did take a lot of pride in "trying their best" to keep it.

Same thing then, same thing now. Lots and lots of trying, and no trusting.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#71 Aug 25, 2014
dilemma (a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives.)

The dilemma for us is that we are a fallen race- meaning that we have no way to correct our situation, we are unable to please God with our current status-we need a radical change. God gives us to avenue to find a new life- a life where our sin is no longer counted against us.

So the people who try to keep the OT laws as a means of being right with God, will always fail. We cannot clean ourselves up by more law keeping- there will always be that one thing we lack.

Joseph was sold into slavery by his own brothers and in a very real sense we are all slaves to sin through our first parents Adam and Eve.

We cannot escape to the promised land without help from someone who has never experienced the fall.

The OT law was never intended to be our savior, in fact it was quite the opposite. The law taught us that we were unable to help our selves. Barnsweb and Mike know this but continue to trust in themselves or another mere human. Why?????

Blind eyes?
Hardened heart?
Never heard the message of redemption? NO
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#72 Aug 25, 2014
William, your personal interpretation of history and Acts 6 is nowhere even remotely close to what the book says. Chapter 6 never mentions James by name only the 12. Chapter six says the whole multitude was pleased. Where is this so called split? Where is James? And where is anything stating they went back under the law at that point?

Its not there. Plain and simple. Revisionist history to fit our doctrinal beliefs. Progressive dispensationalism requires your statement to be correct but history refutes it.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#73 Aug 25, 2014
Dave P wrote:
William, your personal interpretation of history and Acts 6 is nowhere even remotely close to what the book says. Chapter 6 never mentions James by name only the 12. Chapter six says the whole multitude was pleased. Where is this so called split? Where is James? And where is anything stating they went back under the law at that point?
Its not there. Plain and simple. Revisionist history to fit our doctrinal beliefs. Progressive dispensationalism requires your statement to be correct but history refutes it.
Dispensationalism was popularized by Darby in the 19th Century along with his other ridiculous rapture beliefs.

You people continue to believe that Jesus had it wrong for 1500 years.

You may be tired of hearing it, but the truth hurts. Jesus created a Church. All authority in heaven was given to it.

Whoever hears the Church hears Jesus.

You can be living your life as Christians with the fullness of the Truth instead of quarreling over Jesus like the Jews did.

The world continues to see his Body divided. I wont live to see it but in 2-3 generations Protestantism will be in its last throes.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#74 Aug 25, 2014
"You may be tired of hearing it, but the truth hurts. Jesus created a Church. All authority in heaven was given to it."

That is catholic speak/ language -Jesus disagrees with you.

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#75 Aug 25, 2014
Each church has a language that identifies them.

Catholic language is identified by words like popes sacraments and purgatory.

church of Christ is identified with things like water baptism, non instruments preachers instead of pastors.

My church is identified with words like saved by grace, indwelled by the Spirit,

Did you know that God has a language also:

John 8:4

47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#76 Aug 25, 2014
1 Corinthians 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is the Spirit within us who helps understand the things of God.

What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Both catholics and coc are guilty of resisting the Holy Spirit, but it does not have to be that way-we can hear and understand the language of God.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#77 Aug 25, 2014
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might 20which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,…

This is simple stuff for those who will only believe the written word... The same power that raised christ fro the dead lives in us who will receive him.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#78 Aug 25, 2014
The spirit in us helps us to understand the language of God.

Since: May 14

Location hidden

#79 Aug 26, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You can be living your life as Christians with the fullness of the Truth instead of quarreling over Jesus like the Jews did.
The Jews did not quarrel over Jesus. The Christians quarreled with the Jews trying to convince them through forced conversion, death and banishment.

Christians think their Messiah has come. Jews are still waiting for theirs since Jesus did not fulfill the qualities and the obligations of a Jewish Messiah. Jews have their savior and Christians think Jesus is theirs.

Christians may not like the fact that Jews rejected Jesus since they have come to believe in their supersessionism theory. Jews can live their life with the fullness of the Torah and have been for over 3500 years.
William

Birmingham, AL

#80 Aug 26, 2014
Dave P wrote:
William, your personal interpretation of history and Acts 6 is nowhere even remotely close to what the book says. Chapter 6 never mentions James by name only the 12. Chapter six says the whole multitude was pleased. Where is this so called split? Where is James? And where is anything stating they went back under the law at that point?

Its not there. Plain and simple. Revisionist history to fit our doctrinal beliefs. Progressive dispensationalism requires your statement to be correct but history refutes it.
Acts 6:1

6 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

The Hebrews went back to their roots of believing that they were better than Gentiles, starting right here in Acts 6:1.

We see Peter deferring to James in several instances in both Acts and as recorded in Galatians. He is recorded as being afraid of the men of the circumcision that James had sent to Antioch.

I'm sorry that all of this conflicts with your Campbellite upbringing.
William

Birmingham, AL

#81 Aug 26, 2014
You may be tired of hearing it, but the truth hurts. Jesus created a Church. All authority in heaven was given to it."

He certainly did.

It just doesn't happen to be your church.
Dave P

Plummers Landing, KY

#82 Aug 26, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Acts 6:1
6 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
The Hebrews went back to their roots of believing that they were better than Gentiles, starting right here in Acts 6:1.
We see Peter deferring to James in several instances in both Acts and as recorded in Galatians. He is recorded as being afraid of the men of the circumcision that James had sent to Antioch.
I'm sorry that all of this conflicts with your Campbellite upbringing.
William why stop at verse 1? Rest if the chapter is important isn't it? BTW, this issue here has nothing to do with any campbellite upbringing. Gentiles had not been added to the church yet. There's one historical blunder of yours. No James, no split of the church in this chapter.

Your mention of James and Peter and Antioch and Galatians all happen further along in church history. There's also no split of the church mentioned by or in Acts 15 at the Jerusalem council. Your revisionist history is no better than BW's persecution of Paul.

This all has to do with progressive dispensationalism. Mainline evangelicals, protestants, catholics and most everyone will reject your version of history. Are you telling us that EVERYONE ELSE was wrong for 1900 years until Darby come along and set us on the right track? To believe progressive dispensationalism, you have to say YES.

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