Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

Created by Barnsweb on Aug 11, 2013

169 votes

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God

Angels

Peter

Paul

Adam

Abraham

John

Yeshua

Satan

other -

Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#62 Aug 20, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Go study what Jesus taught. Note where and how many times He taught salvation by faith, salvation without works, salvation that was unconditional to doing whatever He taught. In fact, show us where Jesus taught we are saved by grace, or that heaven is a gift of the grace of God.
Paul was a rank liar, and Jesus said so.
Lets leave Paul out of the equation for a moment. We already know that you have not given all you own to the poor and needy and that you cannot perfectly keep the sabbath. That by it's self makes you a law breaker! So how do you justify saying and believing that you are saved?

There is only one way you can do that. It is by saying that God will forgive you for your sin as long as you keep trying.

What is it that separates us from God? Sin does and you are a sinner based on the OT laws!

Abraham did not live under the law. The law was added later because of transgressions. The law was temporary and its purpose was to define and reveal to us that we are sinners. It never had any power to save or forgive sin.

What is that one thing that you lack??? If you have only broken one law only one time, you are still condemned. Going back and getting a second chance for a re-do, still leaves you a sinner. As long as you are under the law you will continue to be condemned by it! Think in terms of purgatory, because that works system is exactly what your doctrine implies. The only difference is the way you play the game!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#63 Aug 20, 2013
Bobby wrote:
If man was capable of achieving salvation by his works, then Jesus died on the cross in vain.
In the story about Judgment Day,(Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:

1. Did you feed the hungry?
2. Did you clothe the naked?
3. Did you give a drink to the thirsty, etc.

If they answered “no” to these works in Matthew 25, then Jesus said that they were going to hell. Nowhere does Jesus ask, "Did you accept me as your personal Lord and Savior?"
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#64 Aug 20, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
If I'm right, have the courage to stand up for the truth of Jesus Christ and repent of following Paul.
It is a matter of salvation, as if Paul is the Balaam who ensnares those who are gathered up and cast into hell - what harsher way could the matter be put than what Jesus taught about it? I'm not adding to His word.
Just a thought. Why is it that the CC has writings of Paul and yet, none of the Gospels of Peter are in the NT? Didn't Jesus give the Keys to Peter. Just a thought, that's all E=MC2 is the answer
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#65 Aug 20, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
In the story about Judgment Day,(Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
1. Did you feed the hungry?
2. Did you clothe the naked?
3. Did you give a drink to the thirsty, etc.
If they answered “no” to these works in Matthew 25, then Jesus said that they were going to hell. Nowhere does Jesus ask, "Did you accept me as your personal Lord and Savior?"
That is easy, true Christians are saved unto good works, not saved by their works.

Follow me close on this:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Saved not by our works but for the purpose of doing good works as you will see in verse 10.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We should be known for our works because those works usually identify a true christian. However many do good works who are not saved. Works follow faith, its not works that remits our sin-nothing but the blood of Jesus does that and it is based on grace through faith.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#66 Aug 20, 2013
Bobby, you quote Paul to prove the theology of Paul is correct. This is not the way God said to know the true gospel, and you have quite ineffectively proven my point in a back handed sort of way.

If that quote is true, give us some quotes where Jesus said the Torah was temporary and only added for a short time. In His opening sermon, what did He say about the Torah and Prophets? Did He say they were temporary and would be done away with in three years? Any indication of that at all from what He taught to be the truth we must hear, believe and do?

Unless you can prove that Jesus said what Paul said, you have to first consider what Jesus did say.

The principle God commanded to know if one spoke for Him is given in Deu. 4, 12, 13, 18. They had certain criteria to meet. Jesus met every one. Paul didn't meet them all, as he spoke against the very word of God and the core message of Jesus Christ - only to introduce a gospel refuted by Jesus from Revelation, and James was likely written as instructions to the Church in Ephasis regarding the trial of Paul that Paul spoke of were all abandoned him in Asia. This is why Jesus, in Revelation 2 commends Ephesis for finding the one claiming to be an apostle to have been a liar. Pure and simple - Paul lied. He also committed perjury before Felix. How could Paul claim to have maintained the same faith as the Jews as he had from childhood and then be teaching against the Law and the people as the charges were noted to be later on? Paul was a slick liar though - he's had many fooled for almost a couple of thousand years - but not everyone.

Many Eastern Orthodox have never accepted Paul as an apostle and only consider his words to be 'writings' that can be accepted or rejected totally, and whatever one might accept can only be accepted if it is in no way contrary to what the Law, Prophets, Messiah and original twelve disciples taught.

Wake up before Paul sends you to hell with himself - all liars will have their place in the lake of fire.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#67 Aug 20, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Bobby, you quote Paul to prove the theology of Paul is correct. This is not the way God said to know the true gospel, and you have quite ineffectively proven my point in a back handed sort of way.
If that quote is true, give us some quotes where Jesus said the Torah was temporary and only added for a short time. In His opening sermon, what did He say about the Torah and Prophets? Did He say they were temporary and would be done away with in three years? Any indication of that at all from what He taught to be the truth we must hear, believe and do?
Unless you can prove that Jesus said what Paul said, you have to first consider what Jesus did say.
The principle God commanded to know if one spoke for Him is given in Deu. 4, 12, 13, 18. They had certain criteria to meet. Jesus met every one. Paul didn't meet them all, as he spoke against the very word of God and the core message of Jesus Christ - only to introduce a gospel refuted by Jesus from Revelation, and James was likely written as instructions to the Church in Ephasis regarding the trial of Paul that Paul spoke of were all abandoned him in Asia. This is why Jesus, in Revelation 2 commends Ephesis for finding the one claiming to be an apostle to have been a liar. Pure and simple - Paul lied. He also committed perjury before Felix. How could Paul claim to have maintained the same faith as the Jews as he had from childhood and then be teaching against the Law and the people as the charges were noted to be later on? Paul was a slick liar though - he's had many fooled for almost a couple of thousand years - but not everyone.
Many Eastern Orthodox have never accepted Paul as an apostle and only consider his words to be 'writings' that can be accepted or rejected totally, and whatever one might accept can only be accepted if it is in no way contrary to what the Law, Prophets, Messiah and original twelve disciples taught.
Wake up before Paul sends you to hell with himself - all liars will have their place in the lake of fire.
I noticed you did not respond to any of my message except to tear down Paul. Like I said you must deny the apostle Paul to get your doctrine to work. But even when you do that, you still have no explanation as to how the law can save you. Unless keeping some the parts of the law and failing on the rest is good enough to cause God to accept you. Take a deep look into the law itself, it does not talk much about salvation or eternal life. It does teach that sins can be moved forward a year at a time but not actually forgiven. There is no message there that says you can pick and choose which laws it is ok to disobey.

Then there is that fact that animal sacrifices are now obsolete. If Christ's death did not represent a new covenant and announce salvation is available on a different basis than the law, then how do you expect to have eternal life based on keeping laws where you continue to fail the test? Heck you might as well be a catholic and pretend to save yourself by your works. Purgatory might fit the bill for you. Good luck there!

The law has already condemned you because you are a failure-unless God grades you on the curve. No mention of that in scripture though.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#68 Aug 20, 2013
If Jesus did not fulfill the law then the law is still in force and Jesus death was in vain.

All that Jesus said and did was for the purpose of fulfilling the law and the prophets which he did. His life was the final sacrifice thus fulfilling the demands of the law. He was born under the law and was required to keep it perfectly in order to for God to accept his sacrifice. No spot, wrinkle or blimpish was found on him.

It was of ultimate necessity that he live according to the demands of the law, he did not have any privilege to break any part of if it. He was born for that purpose. No other man in recorded history lived up to that. He is the messiah/savior because the is the only one to ever completely obey God.

Now why do you want to teach others to live that perfect life, when you fail miserably. The cross is where we find the grace that sustains life-not the law!

As for me, I trust in Jesus works to forgive my sin not yours or mine or the law... Now, I am free to do the works God has called me to do without fear that I might fail or mess it up...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#69 Aug 20, 2013
God does not demand or expect perfect works from me because the payment for my sin was paid at the cross. I will be under the guidance of Christ by means of the Holy Spirit who interprets my weak prayers to God. I will continue to be sanctified and protected from the enemy until that day comes.

Salvation, then sanctification and finally glorification. All of which is his work in me as I yield to his calling and leading. It is a guarantee.

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Do you see what you are losing by trying to save yourself through law keeping where you fail miserably?
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#70 Aug 21, 2013
Paul based his theology on Genesis 15:6, saying Abraham was justified by faith. First, the verse he quoted was a poor translation of the Hebrew into the Greek. There are a number of Hebrew scholars who disagree with the points Paul attributed to this verse for a number of reasons - both what the passage said and where God was establishing the promise to Abraham and why. James tackles this pretty head-on to refute Pauls' expounding in Romans 3,4 regarding justification by faith. The covenant we inherit is not Genesis 15:6.(James 2:21-23; Gen 22)

Abraham had to be counted faithful to do what God told him. The covenant God made with Abraham is actually in Gen. 12:1; 17:1-7. Abraham's part in the covenant was that he had to walk before the LORD blamelessly (17:1), not by a faith that merely says he believes in God or saying he trusted in God - it was based on obedience to God. Was that law-keeping?

It's about hearing, believing, and repentance that turns to do whatever God said. Abraham wasn't perfect in his obedience - but he sure took God seriously in every way. Shouldn't we also, as disciples of Jesus Christ, be careful to pay attention to what He taught and exampled to us as the manner of life and faith, as well as developing the will to do whatever the Father says through Him? According to Jesus, love for Him is love that keeps His commandments - just as His love for the Father caused Him to keep the commandments of His Father.

Moses and Jesus spoke the very truth of God. Paul disagrees with them both.

And you accuse me of not having faith and seeking to be justified by Law Keeping!? No, the just shall live by faith, and faith comes from hearing the word of God and setting our pathway to do it - not just saying you believe it - hearers and doers of His word - as 'hearers only' houses will be destroyed.

God warns of prophets that may do great signs, predict future events, even call down fire from heaven - but if they lead you to worship another God or disbelieve what God said - we are to consider that person as someone not to hear - because they were sent to see of we really loved God enough to do what He said in the first place.

Paul is the NT Balaam, leading people away from doing what God said to do -

Paul was convicted of being a false apostle and a liar in Revelation 2. James may well have been written to the Church as his guidelines for the very trial of Paul for heresy.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#71 Aug 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
God does not demand or expect perfect works from me because the payment for my sin was paid at the cross. I will be under the guidance of Christ by means of the Holy Spirit who interprets my weak prayers to God. I will continue to be sanctified and protected from the enemy until that day comes.
Salvation, then sanctification and finally glorification. All of which is his work in me as I yield to his calling and leading. It is a guarantee.
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Do you see what you are losing by trying to save yourself through law keeping where you fail miserably?
Yes, when I was immersed into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I was sealed with the Holy Spirit. Know why the Holy Spirit is given. If you believe God true, then you have to believe what He said about this from the prophet Ezekiel in 36:26,27. The Spirit is sent to lead us and help us to keep Torah and the teachings of God given by Master YHWH Y'shua.

Or do you call God a liar too?;-) Living by the Spirit is allowing the Spirit to write these things on our heart that will cause us to be careful to do them, and to do them from our heart - and this is surely the love Jesus spoke of having for the Father and how it shows the Spirit and the Word agree.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#72 Aug 21, 2013
Did God tell Abraham that he had to be perfect, or that he was to walk blamelessly? There is a difference. And what did Jesus say? Did Jesus demand perfection, or did He exhibit the very mercy of God in how He dealt with the topic? You should read, observe and believe the truth. Test all things according to the truth - not a lie.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#73 Aug 21, 2013
Bobby wrote:
If Jesus did not fulfill the law then the law is still in force and Jesus death was in vain.
All that Jesus said and did was for the purpose of fulfilling the law and the prophets which he did. His life was the final sacrifice thus fulfilling the demands of the law. He was born under the law and was required to keep it perfectly in order to for God to accept his sacrifice. No spot, wrinkle or blimpish was found on him.
It was of ultimate necessity that he live according to the demands of the law, he did not have any privilege to break any part of if it. He was born for that purpose. No other man in recorded history lived up to that. He is the messiah/savior because the is the only one to ever completely obey God.
Now why do you want to teach others to live that perfect life, when you fail miserably. The cross is where we find the grace that sustains life-not the law!
As for me, I trust in Jesus works to forgive my sin not yours or mine or the law... Now, I am free to do the works God has called me to do without fear that I might fail or mess it up...
All through Revelation Jesus refutes Pauls' false doctrines. You need to read what He said. Note how Jesus says it is about works, not grace, not about what He did on the cross meaning the Commandments of God were done away with. No, Revelation repeatedly parallels the parables of the seed and the ten virgins and the sheep and goats. "Works" is a continuing theme that refutes the false doctrines of Paul on the topic. Thanks, but I'll believe Jesus over Paul any day.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#74 Aug 21, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Bobby, you quote Paul to prove the theology of Paul is correct. This is not the way God said to know the true gospel, and you have quite ineffectively proven my point in a back handed sort of way.
If that quote is true, give us some quotes where Jesus said the Torah was temporary and only added for a short time. In His opening sermon, what did He say about the Torah and Prophets? Did He say they were temporary and would be done away with in three years? Any indication of that at all from what He taught to be the truth we must hear, believe and do?
Unless you can prove that Jesus said what Paul said, you have to first consider what Jesus did say.
The principle God commanded to know if one spoke for Him is given in Deu. 4, 12, 13, 18. They had certain criteria to meet. Jesus met every one. Paul didn't meet them all, as he spoke against the very word of God and the core message of Jesus Christ - only to introduce a gospel refuted by Jesus from Revelation, and James was likely written as instructions to the Church in Ephasis regarding the trial of Paul that Paul spoke of were all abandoned him in Asia. This is why Jesus, in Revelation 2 commends Ephesis for finding the one claiming to be an apostle to have been a liar. Pure and simple - Paul lied. He also committed perjury before Felix. How could Paul claim to have maintained the same faith as the Jews as he had from childhood and then be teaching against the Law and the people as the charges were noted to be later on? Paul was a slick liar though - he's had many fooled for almost a couple of thousand years - but not everyone.
Many Eastern Orthodox have never accepted Paul as an apostle and only consider his words to be 'writings' that can be accepted or rejected totally, and whatever one might accept can only be accepted if it is in no way contrary to what the Law, Prophets, Messiah and original twelve disciples taught.
Wake up before Paul sends you to hell with himself - all liars will have their place in the lake of fire.
You didn't provide any rebuttal to this - Scripture to back up your claims for Paul?
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#75 Aug 21, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Just a thought. Why is it that the CC has writings of Paul and yet, none of the Gospels of Peter are in the NT? Didn't Jesus give the Keys to Peter. Just a thought, that's all E=MC2 is the answer
Luke records the matter in Peter's first sermon on Pentecost, as well as what Peter quoted in Acts 3:22,23. For the most part, we know by the preaching of Peter in Acts 1-3. And I'm sure Ezekiel 36:26,27 was part of the sermon that Luke didn't record - it fits too well to not have been taught by Peter on Pentecost - as well as the topic relating from receiving the Law on Pentecost at the start and that in Christ these foreshadowings and instructions find their fulfillment for all time to come from that day and that disciples of Christ Jesus are the kingdom of priests that God desired of Israel in the first place.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#76 Aug 21, 2013
There was not much hope found under the old covenant because they like all old covenant law keepers were also law breakers. The Spirit was not given to everyone-only a few and could be taken from them.

Why barnsweb seeks to keep an inferior covenant is beyond me. Have you ever wondered why we have a new covenant? Or, maybe that whole thing is just a hoax along with Paul and Jesus did not actually die on the cross. Heck lets just throw the whole thing out:-(

Law and grace like oil and water don't mix...
William

Birmingham, AL

#77 Aug 21, 2013
God’s standard of righteousness, of which we all fall short:“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”(Romans 3:23).

Religious people of any stripe, whether they know it or not, have set themselves up for misery and disappointment, not including that which will come in eternity. The Bible so clearly declares in Galatians 3:10-13:“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written [Deuteronomy 27:26], Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, the just shall live by faith [Habakkuk 2:4]. And the law is not of faith: but [Leviticus 18:5], The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written [Deuteronomy 21:23], Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”

According to the Mosaic Law, we are all “guilty before God”(Romans 3:19). No matter how hard we try, we cannot bring God praise by our performance, and we can never measure up to His glory. The Law “was weak through the flesh”(Romans 8:3): our flesh (that is, we in our resources and strength) cannot obey every single rule that demonstrates God’s holiness. The Law only condemns; it saves no one.

But, the good news (the best news; the only news is that Jesus Christ died on our behalf; He suffered God’s wrath against our sin by becoming “sin for us”(2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus Christ took God’s curse on us sinners, and He bore its weight on Calvary’s cross. When we trust alone in the shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, that perfect sacrifice reunites us with God, and we are declared “the righteousness of God” in Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).

By God’s abounding grace, we can be saved from the curse that our performance generates. Why? Because we need Christ's righteousness, not any of our own. Our flesh is a stench in the nostrils of the holy and righteous God, so what are we supposed to "do" in our flesh that will somehow please him?

Filthy rags, is all of our supposed righteousness.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#78 Aug 21, 2013
Everyone under the old covenant were law breakers except for one-Jesus the Christ. God chose to give a new covenant so that man could be eternally forgiven.

Today Jews who believe in God are denying not only the new covenant but the incarnate Christ.

Anyone who wants to be a Jew must be one by birth and deny the name of Jesus. As Christians our King/redeemer has come.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#79 Aug 21, 2013
Except for messianic Jews and often times they continue to deny that the covenants have changed. It depends on which doctrine they adhere to-much like barnsweb. They often want the King without the new covenant. The test is always found in grace. We cannot pass the test if we deny GRACE...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#80 Aug 21, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't provide any rebuttal to this - Scripture to back up your claims for Paul?
Unlike you, I refuse to throw out 2/3 of the new testament.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#81 Aug 21, 2013
Heck, I guess we could just find us someone who has re-written the new covenant to fit his own doctrine, someone like the guy who wrote the aent. That might work. But whatever you do it is necessary to destroy Paul.

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