#525 Jul 20, 2014
I am going back and examining Paul's statements in the first 3 chapters of 1 Corinthians, about the natural man, the Spirit, understanding, etc.
First thing-it CANNOT mean that the Holy Spirit individually teaches all of us the meaning of scriptures. There were no written NT Scriptures; and the Spirit CANNOT teach for example that i think premillenialism and calvinism is false while AT THE SAME TIME teaching Calvins corner that premillenialism and calvinism is true. Impossible.
#526 Jul 20, 2014
And am I the only one that noticed that most of the protestants original issues simply had to do with corruption, indulgences, etc? The real THEOLOGICAL issues came later.
#527 Jul 20, 2014
Dave look at your own situation, I bet you never expected to be in this struggle.
The message is the gospel not catholic jargon, that is vocabulary particular to catholism. In other words the gospel is simply the cross and is procured by grace through faith. Mike twists that by saying salvation is only available through the catholic church and that they have so many things added to the gospel that we need mud galoshes to wade through it.
That is why the reformation was started in the first place. The gospel is not Mary worship, not forgiveness by and through the church.
As we enter these last days before Jesus return we should expect turmoil and most of all the great falling away. Not preaching a specific date, but look at every church out there, people are leaving in droves. The problem is love for the world with all of it's shine and glitter.
As it was in the days of Noah-how bad was it in those days? The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. All but eight were destroyed.
Look at the news it is always bad news- evil exist everywhere- even in the churches. We all need a new beginning!
#528 Jul 20, 2014
Hardly, Bobby. I know that's been drilled into your head as a fact of the faith, but what is this belief based from? Why do you believe salvation is either perfect obedience to each and every commandment of God - be it small or super important - where is perfect obedience commanded - "or else"? Where did this idea come from? Did Moses ever teach it? Did God ever decree this? Or which of the OT Prophets said so? Or most importantly, where did Jesus ever teach this as a fact of what He taught?
If you can show me some verses where God, Christ, Moses, the regular prophets, or even the twelve apostles - it might help the discussion, as of now I'm just drawing a blank that any of them said this is the fact of the Law of God and who is saved VS who is damned eternally.
I'm not manufacturing a "fake Jesus" to say what I have, as the principle is what He taught in the sermon on the mount and finally found several times in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, that directly say to keep the commandments and not even think they have been destroyed, done away with or loosened...Revelation adds the necessity of the testimony of Jesus and the faith of Jesus to the commandments of God for those who have the right to enter the heavenly city of God - the New Jerusalem.(Rev. 22:14) The more original ancient Aramaic says "Blessed are they who do His (Master YHWH's Mitzvot) that they have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." It also adds: "Without will be dogs and sorcerers, and whoremongers and manslayeres and idolators, and everyone that loves and does fasehood."
OK, don't do falsehood is equal to some really bad things, so why believe in vain as those who were 'without Torah' that He already said will be told "Depart from Me, I never knew you!"?
Is the truth that Paul lied about the Law (Torah/Instructions in righteousness/mitzvah of God) as being done away with at the cross and no longer even needed? If so, why does Revelation end on that note? Why did Jesus first sermon even start out on that note?
Show me some Scripture that supports you view!
Since: Sep 13
#529 Jul 20, 2014
People are leaving in droves mostly because the world does not see us as one just like Jesus predicted. They don't believe that Jesus was sent by God.
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
A pack of ravenous wolves in the 1500s that nearly devoured each other and then another pack let loose around 1800.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Protestants = ravenous wolves.
But we have Jesus' promise. He would protect his Church from all evil until the end of ages. And he has, hasn't he?
#530 Jul 20, 2014
Guess I'm wasting my time posting.
How about this:
Jesus taught the Law extant till a certain time, which has not arrived.
Paul taught it was nailed to the cross and done away with.
Paul taught it was liken to a marriage certificate to a dead mate - useless and void.
Who should we believe, and why?
#531 Jul 20, 2014
And His word, His testimony from the Father, is still with us, but do we believe Him?
The first "wolf" prophecy is in Genesis 49. Jesus warned of "wolves". Wolves divide and plunder. I honestly believe Paul is one of the "wolves" Jesus warned us about. Yet who of His sheep recognize wolves? As for me, it was only when I recognized Paul's words were not the same as the words of Jesus that I knew Paul for what he really is.
Yes, wolves abound today, more than ever.
#532 Jul 20, 2014
You are a law breaker and any sane person knows it.
We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
Have fun with that...
#533 Jul 20, 2014
The first time the church left or split was back a little further.
The Catholic Church made some changes from the previous 1000 plus years when the church was united. The changes were considered so serious that Orthodox and Roman Catholic factions excommunicated each other. So how can the Catholic complain when groups splinter from them when they split from the original church to begin with? Protesters cannot split from protesters can they?
#534 Jul 20, 2014
? The Instructions in righteousness are for those who desire to do what God desires. Don't forget the very first one has to do with our love for God.
I think you've stopped listening to what God and Christ said?
Think about that a while.
#535 Jul 20, 2014
So you think dividing up the kingdom of god is a good thing.
#536 Jul 20, 2014
Actually, Paul is the first to split the Church to divide and plunder the people of God.
Read up on Marcion and "Against Marcion" that was written much later as a rebuff.
#537 Jul 20, 2014
What i have been thinking about is that I am finished with you. I wish you good will but as long as you are on a destructive path and won't listen to reason, I'm done. Mike is next...
#538 Jul 20, 2014
You promise. I will miss those Heinz 40,000 low end protester posts though.
You are all over the place. After all you give money to a college that takes pride in dividing up the body of Christ by granting degrees to 70 different denominations.
But truth is not importAnt.
Oh yeah. I heard a go one on Protester radio today
It was a Calvary Chapel preacher man putting down other low Enders
He said you had to have works, of course he used the word service. And he put the Prots down who believed in faith only
He called them Jesus card carriers. They pull their Jesus card out of their wAllet to show everybody.
Bobby. Did your community church give you a Jesus card.
#539 Jul 20, 2014
Better BW. Thank you.
Still wrong. You never read Matthew 5:18 in context. You hang your hat on "till heaven and earth pass away" but ignore " until all is accomplished".
"It is finished". John 19:30. Tell us He was wrong.
Paul said the debt of sins was nailed to the cross, not the law. Read.
We could have discussions if we all at least handled the texts honestly.
#540 Jul 20, 2014
Where is perfect obedience commanded or else? James 2:10-11.
#541 Jul 20, 2014
But Dave it was the law that condemned us because it revealed our sin and no one could keep it but Jesus.
The Purpose of the Law
…23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
No Condemnation in Christ
…2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
#542 Jul 20, 2014
The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said,“You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
#543 Jul 20, 2014
James 2:11 is speaking of the "big ten", not the "littlest" or "smallest" commandments, but does include the "love your neighbor as yourself", which is very important from the teachings of Y'shua - second only to our love for God, to do His will. The "613" totality in perfection was the original charge. If God judged Israel harshly over the Sabbath, and the Ten were given to all, we should learn a lesson from Israel as to how God sees the day as important from the beginning. James wasn't discounting the commandments of God as done away, In fact, James said to live in accord with the Torah - as though we will be judged according to Torah and that faith without works is dead - quite contrary to Paul.
James points out that our having mercy towards others has something to do with our not coming under judgment - "by mercy you will be raised above judgment."
And yes, Y'shua said "It is finished" and gave up His last breath. "It" being the thing finished - obviously His death on the cross - but how can we think that is "all things" prophesied in the Torah, Psalms and Prophets?
#544 Jul 21, 2014
I'll grant that in one of his letters Paul says it correctly - that the bill, or debt, we owe because of our sin, was nailed to the cross. That's a fair analogy. The trouble is where Paul taught against the Law as being given by God and where Paul said it only brings death - rather than life, or that it is done away with and impotent as a marriage to a dead mate. Paul's teachings in Romans, Corinthians and Galatians are particularly tainted from the truth. I'll gladly discuss this one if you'd like to prove you are correct to say Paul taught truth on the Law - as I believe this is the best way to know Paul was a liar and didn't speak for God and was absolutely not an apostle or spokesman for God or Christ.
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