Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

Created by Barnsweb on Aug 11, 2013

169 votes

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God

Angels

Peter

Paul

Adam

Abraham

John

Yeshua

Satan

other -

Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#223 Aug 28, 2013
Examples abound, but Jesus taught belief and faith that works...that does what He said...the keeps the commandments of God. Paul said the law was nailed to the cross. Jesus expressly said not to think He came to abolish, destroy, set aside, or loosen the commandments (Torah and Prophets) of God.

If one cannot see the contradiction between Paul and Jesus on that one issue alone - well, as He said it will be told:'Depart from Me, I never knew you'(to those who were Torah-less and didn't keep the commandments of God). We also know James and others issued the Decree to the Gentiles, which Paul also set aside as he knew better than they and continued to teach others to NOT do what God commanded.

Why do I bother? None of you seem to 'get it'.

There, pretend I'm dusting of my feet at you;-)
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#224 Aug 28, 2013
After you blasphemed the Spirit of God, we would all probably be best to dust our feet off. We all "get it" perfectly. You have become a reed shaken by the wind, have listened to everyone else except whom you should listen to, and have been robbed of your prize.

Your boy James says you are guilty of breaking the entire law. How you gonna fix that? Between Moses and Jesus I figure you have 1200-1400 commandments to keep everyday to be blameless and must keep them perfectly or be guilty of them all. Odds are, at the end of your life, your "bad" column will outweigh your "good" column. I don't like your chances trying to enter into rest with that record.

Sad day. You went from being one of the more honorable people online I talked to, to telling falsehoods and knowingly misquoting an apostle of Jesus Christ. You have rejected Scripture and will not even engage in factual discussion, just personal talking points.

One thing- spare us the "Hear Him" talk when you've been brainwashed by people who haven't heard Him in anything.
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#225 Aug 28, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>I have found that every person including you that likes to throw the word context around does so to twist the scriptures to their viewpoint. Context amounts to nothing but your opinion. Is David P stand for David Paul? You seem to be contradicting yourself also. Maybe you should read the surrounding verses to see if there is more to be considered, because there is. Anyway you go at this Paul is contradicting these verses. Liberty or conscience is not mentioned as an acceptable excuse for eating meat sacrificed to idols by the elders in Jerusalem. Paul says "you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons" in verse 21 and then says it is okay in verses 25&29 "without raising any question on the ground of conscience". No one will see a contradiction if they only look at a couple of isolated verses and explain away anything controversial but some people aren't interested in explaining away the truth. W e are searching for it.
Acts 15
29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
Acts 21
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."
I can't help it if people can't read and comprehend what they're reading. Do you ever attempt to follow Paul's thinking in the section?

Chapter 8 he talks much about KNOWLEDGE. In one example, he basically tells them to stay out of an idol's temple. Chapter 10- FLEE FROM IDOLATRY; 25- don't ask about food in the meat market- it's a KNOWLEDGE issue. If someone knows idols truly are nothing; and doesn't know the history of his food, then it is not a problem to eat food from the market. If someone tells him it comes from an idol, or he goes to dinner and he is told his food was offered to idols, he should not eat, because he has knowledge, knows to avoid idolatry, and does not want to wound his weak brother.

The Jerusalem council's decision was not a universal, all-time thing. It was to specific churches, in a certain situation, with people teaching falsely in those areas bringing it on.

Knowledge in Corinth was the difference maker. False teachers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia brought on the council's decision.

Speaking of knowledge, since we gentiles don't always know where our food comes from, should we not eat just in case someone offered it to an idol? After all, lack of knowledge is no excuse, right? Still violating the Jerusalem council's decision, correct?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#226 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
After you blasphemed the Spirit of God, we would all probably be best to dust our feet off. We all "get it" perfectly. You have become a reed shaken by the wind, have listened to everyone else except whom you should listen to, and have been robbed of your prize.
Your boy James says you are guilty of breaking the entire law. How you gonna fix that? Between Moses and Jesus I figure you have 1200-1400 commandments to keep everyday to be blameless and must keep them perfectly or be guilty of them all. Odds are, at the end of your life, your "bad" column will outweigh your "good" column. I don't like your chances trying to enter into rest with that record.
Sad day. You went from being one of the more honorable people online I talked to, to telling falsehoods and knowingly misquoting an apostle of Jesus Christ. You have rejected Scripture and will not even engage in factual discussion, just personal talking points.
One thing- spare us the "Hear Him" talk when you've been brainwashed by people who haven't heard Him in anything.
No, I still maintain that being a Christian is discipleship to Jesus. That through discipleship and paying some care to do what He said, it was noted that someone claiming to be His representative was actually teaching against the truths He said to believe and do, that cannot mean that I'm the one blaspheming either the Lord or His Spirit. I allow His Spirit to work through both His words and my heart, to be careful to grow in my observation of hearing, understanding, and certifying God true through my testimony of the truth of Jesus Christ VS the lies of a false apostle that Jesus spoke of in Revelation 2 that relates all the way back to Genesis as the wolf of the tribe of Benjamin.

Because this has not yet been identified by the Pope as true, that the Pope has not yet declared it cannot make it untrue if it is true, and God will uphold His word higher than His name. So as I also uphold His truth about who to listen to and who to NOT listen to - those are commandments of God - it is I who am greatly blessed of God by being found worthy of persecution for the words and truth of Jesus Christ! JESUS SAID SO!:-) I'VE SHOWN NUMEROUS EXAMPLES TO PROVE PAUL LIED AND REFUSED TO ABIDE IN THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE FATHER. PAUL DID NOT PREACH THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. So, if I am faithful still, you can remain unfaithful still - or you can do as Jesus said and 'Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.'
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#227 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't help it if people can't read and comprehend what they're reading. Do you ever attempt to follow Paul's thinking in the section?
Chapter 8 he talks much about KNOWLEDGE. In one example, he basically tells them to stay out of an idol's temple. Chapter 10- FLEE FROM IDOLATRY; 25- don't ask about food in the meat market- it's a KNOWLEDGE issue. If someone knows idols truly are nothing; and doesn't know the history of his food, then it is not a problem to eat food from the market. If someone tells him it comes from an idol, or he goes to dinner and he is told his food was offered to idols, he should not eat, because he has knowledge, knows to avoid idolatry, and does not want to wound his weak brother.
The Jerusalem council's decision was not a universal, all-time thing. It was to specific churches, in a certain situation, with people teaching falsely in those areas bringing it on.
Knowledge in Corinth was the difference maker. False teachers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia brought on the council's decision.
Speaking of knowledge, since we gentiles don't always know where our food comes from, should we not eat just in case someone offered it to an idol? After all, lack of knowledge is no excuse, right? Still violating the Jerusalem council's decision, correct?
Did God ever say that idol worship is worshipping demons? Yes. Are demons 'nothing'? Are we to say that Jesus cast out 'nothings' from a number of the records of the gospel? That Paul calls them 'nothing' tells me much about Paul and his understanding and beliefs. To anyone who seeks to abide in the Lord and His word and 'let the words of Christ dwell in them richly', they wouldn't be calling idols or idolatry 'nothing' as Paul did, and who then went on to say it was lawful to disregard the instructions of righteousness from God and the Son and the Church.
Mike Peterson

United States

#228 Aug 29, 2013
This discussion is perfect example of the proving the Bible is not self teaching.

BW claims the selection of the canon the CC church made is not correct, which could be a valid argument, untrue but valid.

The rest of the non Catholics believe in the infallible selection of canon the CC made but have the bizarre notion that the book they created doesn't have anything to do with the Church.

It would be like Monet explaining a painting he made and what it represented and Protestant saying you are wrong, this is what it means.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#229 Aug 29, 2013
Here's a youtube link that discusses some of the evidence - Do you have the courage to listen to it?

At least you can save a few $ by not buying DelToro's book - but it isn't as thorough as the book.

FDG

“Have facts, will travel!”

Since: Feb 08

The Big Town!

#230 Aug 29, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Here's a youtube link that discusses some of the evidence - Do you have the courage to listen to it?
At least you can save a few $ by not buying DelToro's book - but it isn't as thorough as the book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2jVBoPCnQ7cXX
I wouldn't exactly call that courage.
Anonymous Proxy

Germany

#231 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't help it if people can't read and comprehend what they're reading.
I cannot help it either, although I do wonder why they continue to open their mouth and show their ignorance.

Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jerusalem council's decision was not a universal, all-time thing. It was to specific churches, in a certain situation, with people teaching falsely in those areas bringing it on.
Knowledge in Corinth was the difference maker. False teachers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia brought on the council's decision.
I don't remember that verse in the bible. If I didn't know better I might think that was someones opinion for the purpose of explaining away the truth of the word of God.
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of knowledge, since we gentiles don't always know where our food comes from, should we not eat just in case someone offered it to an idol? After all, lack of knowledge is no excuse, right? Still violating the Jerusalem council's decision, correct?
Speaking of ignorance, I don't know why you post this stuff. In our country the only meat I am aware of that is sacrificed to a God and can be publicly sold is usually by Jews or Muslims. Some slaughterhouses allow a priest or imam to come in and slaughter after performing the rituals on certain days. A lot is done at the site where the animals are raised especially by Muslims. Most of the satanic sacrifices mainly involve drinking the blood in our country. The Chinese are most likely to be a source for food sacrificed to idols, they are very secretive but if you notice the food in the majority of their restaurants comes from a very commercialized source. Not just anyone can slaughter and sell to the public in our country. It would be possible for a cult to own a slaughter house have priests sacrifice animals and then being government inspected could offer it to the public for sale. Their sacrifices would have to be on such a scale it would be known to all. Corinth was known for sacrificing to idols and the most likely reason this question was brought up is because it was very likely to be meat sacrificed to idols. I suppose it was Paul's version of don't ask don't tell.
Anonymous Proxy

Germany

#232 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
After you blasphemed the Spirit of God, we would all probably be best to dust our feet off. We all "get it" perfectly. You have become a reed shaken by the wind, have listened to everyone else except whom you should listen to, and have been robbed of your prize.
Your boy James says you are guilty of breaking the entire law. How you gonna fix that? Between Moses and Jesus I figure you have 1200-1400 commandments to keep everyday to be blameless and must keep them perfectly or be guilty of them all. Odds are, at the end of your life, your "bad" column will outweigh your "good" column. I don't like your chances trying to enter into rest with that record.
Sad day. You went from being one of the more honorable people online I talked to, to telling falsehoods and knowingly misquoting an apostle of Jesus Christ. You have rejected Scripture and will not even engage in factual discussion, just personal talking points.
One thing- spare us the "Hear Him" talk when you've been brainwashed by people who haven't heard Him in anything.
I am glad to see we have a self appointed judge of blasphemy on this thread. I notice you have cried Barnsweb blasphemed several times. Is there a point in that other than trying to intimidate someone? If he did actually blaspheme there would be no point in saying it, there is no forgiveness if he did. No, the only claim is childish intimidation on your part. It you cannot counter what Barnsweb says with resorting to name calling or claims you have been defeated. One must look at the source of the charges and determine if the self righteous accuser is worthy of being taken seriously and you are not. Jesus was accused of blasphemy but never accused anyone outright(although he did seem to imply it) but you for some reason think you can accuse someone of an act that is not specifically defined in scripture. I am sure it is defined in your mind but that is not scripture and again is nothing but you opinion.
Anonymous Proxy

Germany

#233 Aug 29, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Ignore above post.
I am glad to see we have a self appointed judge of blasphemy on this thread. I notice you have cried Barnsweb blasphemed several times. Is there a point in that other than trying to intimidate someone? If he did actually blaspheme there would be no point in saying it, there is no forgiveness if he did. No, the only reason is childish intimidation on your part. It you cannot counter what Barnsweb says without resorting to name calling or claims you have been defeated. One must look at the source of the charges and determine if the self righteous accuser is worthy of being taken seriously and you are not. Were those that accused Jesus correct? Jesus was accused of blasphemy but never accused anyone outright(although he did seem to imply it) but you for some reason think you can accuse someone of an act that is not specifically defined in scripture. I am sure it is defined in your mind but that is not scripture and again is nothing but you opinion.
Anonymous Proxy

Germany

#234 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't help it if people can't read and comprehend what they're reading. Do you ever attempt to follow Paul's thinking in the section?
Chapter 8 he talks much about KNOWLEDGE. In one example, he basically tells them to stay out of an idol's temple. Chapter 10- FLEE FROM IDOLATRY; 25- don't ask about food in the meat market- it's a KNOWLEDGE issue. If someone knows idols truly are nothing; and doesn't know the history of his food, then it is not a problem to eat food from the market. If someone tells him it comes from an idol, or he goes to dinner and he is told his food was offered to idols, he should not eat, because he has knowledge, knows to avoid idolatry, and does not want to wound his weak brother.
The Jerusalem council's decision was not a universal, all-time thing. It was to specific churches, in a certain situation, with people teaching falsely in those areas bringing it on.
Knowledge in Corinth was the difference maker. False teachers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia brought on the council's decision.
Speaking of knowledge, since we gentiles don't always know where our food comes from, should we not eat just in case someone offered it to an idol? After all, lack of knowledge is no excuse, right? Still violating the Jerusalem council's decision, correct?
It would be better if you would backup your posts with the bible. Reasoning must have strong scriptural support to be taken seriously. Opinions are just that, we all have one. For example, some actually believe Mary was with out sin and a perpetual virgin. I believe that to be their opinion and I believe it to be incorrect. If they convince me of that they are going to have to show me strong scriptural support for it. I think you might agree they never do that. Why should we have any less of a standard for any other verse of scripture? Or lack of a verse as the case may be.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#235 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Deuteronomy 33:2; various Psalms, and Acts 7 all provide some evidence that angels were indeed at Sinai during the giving of the law. Jewish tradition believes so as well.
Paul did not invent this idea. Slandering him on it is wrong.
When Moses re'cd the law, Jews were not around. They were know has Hebrews. Jews didn't exist until after the Civil war were Solumon died. The 10 tribe to the north were know has Israel, while the 2 tribes to the south were know has Judea. This is were the term jew comes from. Judea, Judeans, Jews.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#236 Aug 29, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
This discussion is perfect example of the proving the Bible is not self teaching.
BW claims the selection of the canon the CC church made is not correct, which could be a valid argument, untrue but valid.
The rest of the non Catholics believe in the infallible selection of canon the CC made but have the bizarre notion that the book they created doesn't have anything to do with the Church.
It would be like Monet explaining a painting he made and what it represented and Protestant saying you are wrong, this is what it means.
That makes absolutely no sense, How can denying 2/3 of the new testament be a valid argument. Oh, I forgot catholics deny any portion of the bible that does not fit their tradition. How could I forget that?
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#237 Aug 29, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>It would be better if you would backup your posts with the bible. Reasoning must have strong scriptural support to be taken seriously. Opinions are just that, we all have one. For example, some actually believe Mary was with out sin and a perpetual virgin. I believe that to be their opinion and I believe it to be incorrect. If they convince me of that they are going to have to show me strong scriptural support for it. I think you might agree they never do that. Why should we have any less of a standard for any other verse of scripture? Or lack of a verse as the case may be.
Get your Bible, open it up, and read it. I am not constantly going to post numerous verses on here. I have explained this several times in the past. If I can have my Bible open while typing, so can anyone else.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#238 Aug 29, 2013
Bobby, I know you're not going to spring for the $27 for the book, but the video is free for the viewing. So far I only take issue with what he says about divorce, as Jesus in Matthew 19 seems to sidestep the one issue for divorce and say that that level is not for everyone, but only those able to accept it - which would seem to be as the rest - teaching the Torah of Moses to be true, but magnifying what it said to higher levels of instruction in righteousness and judgment. The videographer doesn't seem to provide reason to the statement of Jesus in Matthew 19 to be clarification of what He taught earlier.
(at about 1:07 of the video)

Regarding food 'sacrificed to Idols', the issue shows Paul taught non-submission to what God declared through His appointed representatives. This is the same thing Satan has done from the beginning - to say it doesn't really matter what God said, that it's permissible to do what He said to not do, that God didn't really tell the truth. Paul is pretty much following the same exact pattern, using the words of God partially, but drawing conclusions at odds with what God clearly said. It's an indicator to us the fact that Paul was in submission to the Master of all, or if He refused true doctrine.

Paul is guilty, just as Jesus said in Revelation 2.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#239 Aug 29, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>I am glad to see we have a self appointed judge of blasphemy on this thread. I notice you have cried Barnsweb blasphemed several times. Is there a point in that other than trying to intimidate someone? If he did actually blaspheme there would be no point in saying it, there is no forgiveness if he did. No, the only reason is childish intimidation on your part. It you cannot counter what Barnsweb says without resorting to name calling or claims you have been defeated. One must look at the source of the charges and determine if the self righteous accuser is worthy of being taken seriously and you are not. Were those that accused Jesus correct? Jesus was accused of blasphemy but never accused anyone outright(although he did seem to imply it) but you for some reason think you can accuse someone of an act that is not specifically defined in scripture. I am sure it is defined in your mind but that is not scripture and again is nothing but you opinion.
Any point in crying blasphemy? How about trying to get someone to think about the consequences of their actions? And have you not been paying attention-I have countered his arguments several times, while getting nothing but talking points in return.

Jesus was accussed of casting out devils by Beezelbub. He then goes into a discussion of blasphemy of the Spirit. Paul was a chosen vessel of Jesus Christ to go preach the gospel to the gentiles. To call him a liar and fraud makes Jesus a liar and fraud, makes the Holy Spirit a liar. The Spirit inspired Paul and Luke to write lies, Peter and John believed the liars-their credibility is shot. The entire NT is gutted and our Bibles are compromised.

If calling the work of Jesus and the Spirit a lie and a fraud isn't blasphemy, what is? Or do you have the same doubts of Paul and the scriptures as BW?
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#240 Aug 29, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Speaking of ignorance, I don't know why you post this stuff. In our country the only meat I am aware of that is sacrificed to a God and can be publicly sold is usually by Jews or Muslims. Some slaughterhouses allow a priest or imam to come in and slaughter after performing the rituals on certain days. A lot is done at the site where the animals are raised especially by Muslims. Most of the satanic sacrifices mainly involve drinking the blood in our country. The Chinese are most likely to be a source for food sacrificed to idols, they are very secretive but if you notice the food in the majority of their restaurants comes from a very commercialized source. Not just anyone can slaughter and sell to the public in our country. It would be possible for a cult to own a slaughter house have priests sacrifice animals and then being government inspected could offer it to the public for sale. Their sacrifices would have to be on such a scale it would be known to all. Corinth was known for sacrificing to idols and the most likely reason this question was brought up is because it was very likely to be meat sacrificed to idols. I suppose it was Paul's version of don't ask don't tell.
I posted this to get you to THINK and see Paul's point. Truthfully, we have no idea if our food today has been offered to idols or not. So, are we in sin for not knowing and possibly eating food offered to idols?

Is the prohibition to the gentiles from the Jerusalem council still in effect today? About food that is.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#241 Aug 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
I posted this to get you to THINK and see Paul's point. Truthfully, we have no idea if our food today has been offered to idols or not. So, are we in sin for not knowing and possibly eating food offered to idols?
Is the prohibition to the gentiles from the Jerusalem council still in effect today? About food that is.
We are always in sin. We are all going to die. "The wages of sin is DEATH". Nobody is doing God's will, and I mean nobody.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#242 Aug 29, 2013
Who calls Jesus and the Apostles liars?
The Apostles, and Jesus in Revelation, had ample opportunity to testify what Paul claimed of Apostleship and special witness to be true - but they didn't. Instead we find veiled references to someone who claimed to be an Apostle, but was not. Someone who, like Balaam, taught things that lead people from the prohibition to eat meat sacrificed to idols, saying Jesus did not come in the flesh, and teachings that lead some to practice fornication. All three of those explicit things fit Paul and Paul testified of each in his writings to prove he is guilty as charged.
Eating meat sacrificed to idols - yes
Fornication/adultery - seems so
Not come in the flesh - Paul alone said it was the 'likeness' of flesh - not actual flesh as you or me.
Yes, I'm aware of Paul's curse for anyone who would not agree with 'his' gospel, but I fear God much more than I do Paul. God said through the tests given to Moses that someone can even give true prophecy and work wonders in God's name, but if they detracted or added to what He had said to do in ways that were not fully fitting His words of instruction that we are to ignore such a one. God said He would allow liars to come in His name to test us and see if we would obey Him as He said, or if we would be lead aside to not do what He said or do things against what He said.
This was the premise of the discussion, to note if there are issues with Paul because those before us, who gave us the 'Bible', erred in not making sure only those belong in it are the only ones in it presented as authoritative.
At the start, Paul knew he had to check with the Twelve to see that he preached the same thing. That they extended the hand of fellowship to Paul at one time does not mean this hand of fellowship remained extended when Paul was teaching against the Doctrine and Commandments of God later on. Paul constantly put the Apostles down and tried to make himself look good. We need to practice a degree of 'suspension of belief' or 'disbelief' and examine Paul from the whole of his teachings. The Bereans only had one sermon to judge from - we have decades of writing and history available to us that they didn't. I can find passages where Paul said very good things, but nothing that is additional or more enlightening than what Jesus had already taught! A few examples are 'what matters most is keeping the commandments' or 'let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.' I was a severe Paulinest for most of my life in fact. But I've repented of that now, and now hold to the earliest cannon expressed: Moses, the Law, Prophets and the Lord.

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