Prove That God Is REAL

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Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#181
Jun 11, 2013
 
John Campbell explained Atheism in the best way I can understand it.

Atheist - one who believes that religious teachings are myth

Theist - one who believes that religious teachings are true

He argues that theists are mistaking metaphors for fact.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#182
Jun 13, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
John Campbell explained Atheism in the best way I can understand it.
Atheist - one who believes that religious teachings are myth
Theist - one who believes that religious teachings are true
He argues that theists are mistaking metaphors for fact.
Correction: Joseph Campbell

However, this discussion needs a boost. Let's move on..

I'll take on another topic: Christian vs. secular entertainment.

As a child I was barely allowed to enjoy secular entertainment - any secular entertainers that I had access to were censored and in line with Christian ideals. In the 80's, mainstream TV and radio was family entertainment actually DID align with Christian beliefs - so avoiding anything that conflicted with our religion wasn't really that hard. Secular entertainers did exist though and my parents were adamant that our family was to avoid them.

An example is: heavy metal music. Back in the day, there was a movement to say that rock music was a route to Hell and that certain bands were luring children away from Christianity. My parents claimed that the group KISS were Knights in Satan's Service and destroyed albums and such to prove their point. More recently, a group in my area gathered up as many Harry Potter books as they could find and burned them to "save the children" from them. It is a continuation of this same effort - to keep Christians away from anything not Christian.

I've read a few discussion against Family Guy and South Park - these shows are considered offensive by many people other than just Christians - but those of us who enjoy them think that you guys don't know how to take a joke. The ideas presented through entertainment today are the sort of things not allowed on TV 20 yrs. ago, they have learned to express them within the confines of censorship and make available what was previously unavailable. The internet also gives unconventional entertainment an outlet and an audience. I have seen a giant growth of secular entertainment while Christians are worried that Christian entertainment and wholesome family entertainment is harder and harder to find. I recognize your concerns, but I disagree with not allowing young people to be exposed to entertainment that is non-Christian because you are distorting those children's perception of reality. Secular entertainment exists and all people should be allowed to judge it individually.

What do you think? Do you allow your kids to watch South Park? Do you think they watch it anyway?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#183
Jun 13, 2013
 
My kids absolutely aren't "allowed" to watch SP or FG. They already see too much, and my oldest is 7! Censorship is going the way of the dodo. The FCC is in process of attempting to remove some barriers during the "family hour" time- wanting to allow some nudity and profanity from 8-11 pm on weeknights.

For music, talk to Barnsweb. He has great insight on music and attitudes about it.

For those of us that take our faith seriously, we are to abstain from every form of evil, and protect our kids from that. They see it all soon enough anyway.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#184
Jun 13, 2013
 

Judged:

1

"My parents claimed that the group KISS were Knights in Satan's Service and destroyed albums and such to prove their point."

I used to destroy their albums because they were just too awful to listen to.

Still are!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#185
Jun 13, 2013
 
William wrote:
"My parents claimed that the group KISS were Knights in Satan's Service and destroyed albums and such to prove their point."
I used to destroy their albums because they were just too awful to listen to.
Still are!
America and by extension all of the world has been undergoing a dE-sencitization process for a long time now. We are about to the point where anything goes. Much of it began with Hollywood. Nothing seems to shock us anymore.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#186
Jun 13, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
My kids absolutely aren't "allowed" to watch SP or FG. They already see too much, and my oldest is 7!
You are a responsible parent to protect your child from adult themes - they are not mature enough to understand them - we all deliberately distort reality for young children so that they may be allowed to remain innocent until they are mature enough to face the "real" world.

My question for you is now: how long? How long will you not allow your child to watch Family Guy?

My parents thought they were very responsible to protect their children from secular viewpoints until they left home. Can you imagine how surprised I was to find out how much I had been missing?

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#187
Jun 13, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
For those of us that take our faith seriously, we are to abstain from every form of evil, and protect our kids from that. They see it all soon enough anyway.
Abstaining from evil - that's why I wasn't allowed to enjoy Queen or Richard Pryor. No "Friday the 13th" for me - no Slayer music or Bill Hicks comedy. It was all too evil to allow my precious ears to hear. My parents made sure I abstained from it.

But it was out there waiting for me when I was finally able to explore the "real" world and 18 years of abstaining from knowing what your peers all seem to know is enough to motivate any person to indulge in everything that had deliberately been with-held from them.

MY children were (are) some of the most well-informed teens around. When they were grown enough to ask why they weren't allowed to view or hear certain entertainment - I call it the age of leveling - I leveled with them. I SHOWED them what was so entertaining to adults and explained why children weren't allowed to view it. We talk about what is controversial and why sex is such an uncomfortable subject for adults to discuss with young people. I introduced the "real" world to my kids and started treating them like adults.

For them, hopefully, becoming an adult doesn't have to be the culture shock that it was for me.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#188
Jun 13, 2013
 
William wrote:
I used to destroy their albums because they were just too awful to listen to.
Still are!
Were they more like Satanists or clowns?? You have to LISTEN to that album you're burning if you really want to know.

You could have sold those albums to closeted Christian rock-n-roll fans.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#189
Jun 13, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
America and by extension all of the world has been undergoing a dE-sencitization process for a long time now. We are about to the point where anything goes. Much of it began with Hollywood. Nothing seems to shock us anymore.
This is a speech from the 1950's, isn't it? Of course we can still be shocked - turn on the television tomorrow - you'll be shocked about something. Shock is a valuable media technique - overused to the point that we DO stop caring - just how shocked can we all going around being? There will still always be something new to shock us again.

Will you be shocked when Zimmerman is found innocent of murdering that child, Trayvon Martin, or will you be shocked when he is found guilty? Either way, it will be shocking - television will present the information to you that way.

Are you saying that we have lost our emotions because the media has shocked us to death?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#190
Jun 13, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a speech from the 1950's, isn't it? Of course we can still be shocked - turn on the television tomorrow - you'll be shocked about something. Shock is a valuable media technique - overused to the point that we DO stop caring - just how shocked can we all going around being? There will still always be something new to shock us again.
Will you be shocked when Zimmerman is found innocent of murdering that child, Trayvon Martin, or will you be shocked when he is found guilty? Either way, it will be shocking - television will present the information to you that way.
Are you saying that we have lost our emotions because the media has shocked us to death?
I am saying that the more evil we see and experience the less we see it as being evil. Of course a person like yourself might not think in those terms until some evil thing happens to them-like a burgular who inters your home violates your daughter and kills your dog, then leaves with your life savings. We can see it on the news and the movies but until it happens to us, it is no big deal. Desensitization is a slow process, what was once sin is no longer sin.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#191
Jun 13, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a responsible parent to protect your child from adult themes - they are not mature enough to understand them - we all deliberately distort reality for young children so that they may be allowed to remain innocent until they are mature enough to face the "real" world.
My question for you is now: how long? How long will you not allow your child to watch Family Guy?
My parents thought they were very responsible to protect their children from secular viewpoints until they left home. Can you imagine how surprised I was to find out how much I had been missing?
Probably won't let them watch it at all. I don't watch it. We have netflix and vudu, so we have more power rangers and rango and disney movies. I don't watch tv at all now. Haven't for months. Not that I'm against it- just nothing on.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#192
Jun 14, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I am saying that the more evil we see and experience the less we see it as being evil. Of course a person like yourself might not think in those terms until some evil thing happens to them-like a burgular who inters your home violates your daughter and kills your dog, then leaves with your life savings. We can see it on the news and the movies but until it happens to us, it is no big deal. Desensitization is a slow process, what was once sin is no longer sin.
Wiki say: desensitization is defined as the diminished emotional responsiveness to a negative or aversive stimulus after repeated exposure to it.

Because we see so much tragedy on TV, we cannot respond properly when we see tragedy in front of our face? I do not believe that the public, in general, suffers from desensitization - it was described as a deliberate technique to cure phobias and anxieties..

I suggest an opposite effect of media - being constantly presented with such bad news creates anxiety in anticipation of some bad news that is actually personal to you - like being burglarized. A desensitized response would be to shrug it off, no big deal, since it happens to somebody every single day - the TV tells us so. However, I have witnessed an opposite response - exaggerated horror towards being victimized and incessant worry about being victimized. I think media provokes emotions (as a technique to gain attention and ultimately increase profits) that people should reserve for when they are appropriate to a situation at hand - not a situation that does not involve you or someone you know personally. This doesn't make people LESS emotional - it promotes being over-emotional. Reading a daily newspaper is a constant source of anxiety for some people.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#193
Jun 14, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably won't let them watch it at all. I don't watch it. We have netflix and vudu, so we have more power rangers and rango and disney movies. I don't watch tv at all now. Haven't for months. Not that I'm against it- just nothing on.
Family Guy is probably a bad example since it is a dated program - let's imagine some inappropriate programming that your child may sincerely be curious about. We'll also imagine that your child is, say, 10 or so - maybe a more realistic age to allow your child to become familiar with some of the actualities of the world. Suppose my imagined 10 year old comes to school telling your imagined 10 yr old about watching a Netflix program about transvestites or drug trafficking. Wouldn't honest, innocent curiosity lead your child to investigate Netflix to also see what another child found so interesting? Suppose your child isn't very sneaky and so you witness him watching something that you find inappropriate for a child his age.
How would you handle that situation?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#194
Jun 14, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Wiki say: desensitization is defined as the diminished emotional responsiveness to a negative or aversive stimulus after repeated exposure to it.
Because we see so much tragedy on TV, we cannot respond properly when we see tragedy in front of our face? I do not believe that the public, in general, suffers from desensitization - it was described as a deliberate technique to cure phobias and anxieties..
I suggest an opposite effect of media - being constantly presented with such bad news creates anxiety in anticipation of some bad news that is actually personal to you - like being burglarized. A desensitized response would be to shrug it off, no big deal, since it happens to somebody every single day - the TV tells us so. However, I have witnessed an opposite response - exaggerated horror towards being victimized and incessant worry about being victimized. I think media provokes emotions (as a technique to gain attention and ultimately increase profits) that people should reserve for when they are appropriate to a situation at hand - not a situation that does not involve you or someone you know personally. This doesn't make people LESS emotional - it promotes being over-emotional. Reading a daily newspaper is a constant source of anxiety for some people.
There can also be a positive effect to desensitization for hyper allergic people. I do wish you could see that there is sin in the world though.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#195
Jun 14, 2013
 
That's when you have an honest conversation with your child. We've already had "cussing" episodes where our son came home from school and spit out some foul language.

We had a talk with him. Now, every time he hears a bad word or we all hear one, he says "what did they say? That's a bad word." He got the point, and no soap in the mouth or beating with a belt was necessary!

ASM, many people simply don't care what their kids watch, say, or do. That's a problem. Most of us Christian folk aren't like the Amish- we don't run from the world, but we do protect our kids from it, then we have to give them some help to allow them to survive it. Reality comes soon enough for all of us. We should let kids be kids.

*That being said, I have another issue. I don't think we give kids enough credit. We consider young people "kids" now until they're 22-23 years old. We coddle high school age kids. In Bible times, kids became adults at 12-13 years old, married (arranged), had children, and died on average by the mid forties.

*We cry about "teenage pregnancy". Why do we think it happens? Societal change is the answer. God designed us for reasons. Sexual urges are strong. Why do we hit puberty at around 12-13? Even as late as 100 years ago "young marriage" wasn't uncommon. Today-you have to wait until after high school (18); wait after college (22-26,27); get settled into a career (mid-thirties or later).

We have strong sexual desires young; society basically forces people either to-put off those desires for success; or to commit fornication and try to prevent pregnancy for years while doing such fornication.

If two high school students today considered marriage, we'd jump to the ceiling!

I could say more on this, but I will stop to allow for other comments.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#196
Jun 14, 2013
 

Judged:

2

I had my will drawn up saying that my kids could not have their inheritance until they turned 30. Of course I am still alive and the kids are past 30. My point is that most of us were still somewhat immature even at 30 or even later. Wisdom usually comes with age. When we experience mistakes, hopefully we learn from them. This is how most parents are. we don't want our kids to make the same mistakes we have. Sometimes there is no replacement for experience. Good parents will always want the best for their kids and we make a lot of mistakes along the way because each child is different. Where disciple works with one, it drives the other away. We should try to know our child and his or her bent (leanings) and work from there. Kids/people who are the hardest to love are the ones who need love the most.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#197
Jun 14, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
There can also be a positive effect to desensitization for hyper allergic people. I do wish you could see that there is sin in the world though.
Sin is a Christian concept, isn't it? Sin is defined in the Bible - and so, as defined by the Bible, yes, sin exists and will continue to exist as long as humans exist.

I do not respect the Bible's definition of sin. Those sins that are in sync with law, like theft and murder, are reasonable to honor since they support showing respect towards other people. I find it strange that torture isn't listed in the top 10 - but certainly God doesn't intend for us torture people; I'll trust that it's mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.

Those that DO rank over torture are: honor your parents (what if your parents are horrible people?), do not use God's name in vain (who does this harm?), do not covet other's property (what? envy is natural), don't work on Sunday (unless your JOB is to lead church), and no graven images (stop praying to the money tree, yeah, right!).

Other commandments are ones I simply agree are good advice for everyone: no lying and don't cheat on your spouse.

I know there are many more sins listed than the 10 commandments, but those were designated as the most important ones to abide by, yes?

I suggest that there are lot worse activities than the sins outlined in the Bible. Our society has an underlying motivation to constantly profit from other people - I believe that to be an evil motivation. Mental abuse is not specifically discouraged in the Bible, but is a horrible activity that exists all around us. Intolerance is a huge issue today, but the Bible does not support a change in societal standards, and through Christianity, intolerance is supported.

Tell me I'm wrong - I wish to be wrong.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#198
Jun 14, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
That's when you have an honest conversation with your child. We've already had "cussing" episodes where our son came home from school and spit out some foul language.

We had a talk with him. Now, every time he hears a bad word or we all hear one, he says "what did they say? That's a bad word." He got the point, and no soap in the mouth or beating with a belt was necessary!
That's a great technique - your child accepts what he hears and is able to judge for himself if it is appropriate or not. It is wonderful that you talk openly to your child about it.

However, just how many "bad" words are there - and who decided that certain words were "bad"? Has your child memorized a list?

When I was in 2nd grade, a "friend" told me to yell out a word I had never heard before and it was VERY bad (it rhymed with truck). A teacher (patiently) explained profanity to me, because I was unaware that it existed. My list of "bad words" was: Hell and Damn - they were "bad" bc going to Hell and being Damned were "bad" things to be talking about. Assuredly, these were "bad" words I was exposed to at CHURCH. This was an issue for me in Kindergarten when Mrs. Hale substituted for Mrs. Cox (whose name I never found humorous until I was a teen). I thought that Mrs. Hale had a "bad" word for a name and I literally practiced saying it in a way that did not sound like Hell.

My parents equated avoiding sin to keeping me dumb. When I was old enough to realize this, I was very angry to know it.

My attitude towards profanity when raising my children was very different.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#199
Jun 14, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
ASM, many people simply don't care what their kids watch, say, or do. That's a problem. Most of us Christian folk aren't like the Amish- we don't run from the world, but we do protect our kids from it, then we have to give them some help to allow them to survive it. Reality comes soon enough for all of us. We should let kids be kids.
I agree that not paying attention to what your kids are doing is bad parenting. It makes me angry to hear parents complain about schools and teachers - if your child is not being educated properly, jump up and do it better yourself - it is the parent's responsibility.

Still, when your child asks you why he is not allowed to view things that adults are allowed to view - is it bc you "said so", is it bc the Bible "said so", is it bc children are too young to understand, is it bc children can't be trusted with the information presented, OR (most likely) are you specific to explain to your child how to recognize what is and isn't moral or correct and WHY? "I said so" is such a stupid, lame, awful explanation - one I was offered often - one that I refuse ever to use.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#200
Jun 14, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Sin is a Christian concept, isn't it? Sin is defined in the Bible - and so, as defined by the Bible, yes, sin exists and will continue to exist as long as humans exist.
I do not respect the Bible's definition of sin. Those sins that are in sync with law, like theft and murder, are reasonable to honor since they support showing respect towards other people. I find it strange that torture isn't listed in the top 10 - but certainly God doesn't intend for us torture people; I'll trust that it's mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.
Those that DO rank over torture are: honor your parents (what if your parents are horrible people?), do not use God's name in vain (who does this harm?), do not covet other's property (what? envy is natural), don't work on Sunday (unless your JOB is to lead church), and no graven images (stop praying to the money tree, yeah, right!).
Other commandments are ones I simply agree are good advice for everyone: no lying and don't cheat on your spouse.
I know there are many more sins listed than the 10 commandments, but those were designated as the most important ones to abide by, yes?
I suggest that there are lot worse activities than the sins outlined in the Bible. Our society has an underlying motivation to constantly profit from other people - I believe that to be an evil motivation. Mental abuse is not specifically discouraged in the Bible, but is a horrible activity that exists all around us. Intolerance is a huge issue today, but the Bible does not support a change in societal standards, and through Christianity, intolerance is supported.
Tell me I'm wrong - I wish to be wrong.
Would you want to live in a country or even a city where there is no rule of law? That would result in a state of lawlessness. There must be boundaries to protect the rights of everyone. The bible is designed sorta like that but it was God who set the boundaries not man.

When a citizen breaks a law that is on the books (legal contract) they are subject to punishment. So you see, man's government is patterned similar to the government of God for his people. The difference is law breakers are refereed to as sinners.

Worldly law does not tolerate bank robbers and the bank robbers can holler-that's not fair but they still go to jail. So there is intolerance at all levels even in the kingdom of God.

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