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121 - 140 of 417 Comments Last updated Jul 30, 2013
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#121
Jul 4, 2013
 
Another btw: I pray for those here on these threads, not that they will become like me but that they would seek a closer relationship with our Lord-etc.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#122
Jul 4, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
Just a few ways to recognize a high end protestant church:
The worship space is constructed of stone, brick or sometimes wood and designed by an architect with more than a passing nod to Wren and tradition.
The word "First" appears before the church name.
The staff has advanced degrees from accredited universities or divinity schools.
The pastor wears some form of choir dress while conducting worship services but could also wear academic regalia.
The only musical instrument used is a pipe organ sometimes supplemented with orchestral instruments.
The walls and ceiling in the worship space are quite high with stained or decorative glass windows.
Lighting is with brass multi-arm colonial chandeliers or else Gothic Revival hanging pendants.
Depending on the denomination there will be an elaborate baptistery or font.
The robed choir will be seated behind the pulpit facing the congregation.
I have never been in a high end church then, I just never thought of it one way or the other. The early church was never like any of the thing you mention in this post. It sounds more like a Catholic church. Come to think of it since the Catholic church claims to be apostolic why aren't they like the early church? Why aren't they all low end?
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#123
Jul 4, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>

You can go your whole life in a protestant church without saying one prayer.
Depends on the church. I have been in some where the whole service was devoted to prayer.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#124
Jul 4, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text> I prayed that prayer in the coc once and got called to the church office.
LOL. First time I ever heard of that.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#125
Jul 4, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Baloney! Just because catholics need a prearranged recital prayer with some priest to lead them or even if it is read straight from the scripture does not mean it comes from the heart-it may be just a recital with no meaning. Our church is a praying people. In our classes we ask for prayer request, then we ask others to pray for them. It sometimes takes 15 or 20 minutes and nearly everyone in the class is leading a specific prayer according to the requests. Even our women pray.
Most of my prayer life is when I pray alone to my God, sometimes silent and sometimes out loud even if I am the only one there. I often pray Jesus prayer in luke 11 even though some coc say we cannot pray that prayer because they say the kingdom has already come. The kingdom has yet to come in it's fullness. I prayed that prayer in the coc once and got called to the church office.
Our class leader sends emails for prayer requests at least once a week, here is a recent one.
You are making my point. Protestants don't pray in Church. Just the preacher.

I am not saying they don't pray at all.

Since: Jun 11

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#126
Jul 4, 2013
 
A few ways to recognize a low end protestant church:

Since there are well over 30,000 protestant denominations, many being one of a kind, this is a challenge.

The worship spaces tend to be everything from steel buildings to store fronts to double wides or single wides. The few that are purpose built rarely involve architects instead relying on building committees and sketches from a contractor. These buildings look more like residential structures with a large porch added and a fiberglass steeple stuck on for good measure.
There will never be a pipe organ but in those that use mechanical instruments a piano will be found and sometimes an electronic organ or keyboard. Drum sets are popular for 'praise bands" and large tv screens are a must. I remember asking why the piano and organ were being played at the same time...the answer was we can't sing with just the organ...I said honey, y'all can't sing with either one!
The lighting will be florescent tubes and garish. If there is a baptistery it will be painted to look like a river and curtains obscure it until just the right moment.
The congregation remains seated and virtually silent the entire time unless attempting to sing. They might stand for a song or prayer. One person generally does all the talking and praying.
The preacher rarely has an advanced degree and virtually never from an accredited university.
The preacher wears a jacket and tie, never choir dress but I've even seen them in bib overalls.
These churches have made up names, made up theology and more often than not function as a family business with husband and wife both on the payroll.
Communion is distributed via little cups in stacked nickel plated trays with little holes to hold the little cups.
In the past few years "community churches" have begun to spring up claiming to be non-denominational. So we see churches like Greater Love Ministries, Abundant Life Fellowship, Soul Winners Ministries, Adventure in Faith Church, Galilean House of Worship, Alpha Apostolic Temple Church, Bible Way Holy Church, Temple of Spirit in Truth, Refuge Center of Deliverance and on and on and on.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#127
Jul 4, 2013
 

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Bobby wrote:
By the way that class leader is a former catholic.
That fallen away Catholic brought that from the Mass. It is called the Prayers of the Faithful.

Those are read at Mass and the whole Church stops and pray for them.

Since: Jun 11

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#128
Jul 4, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
A few ways to recognize a low end protestant church:
Since there are well over 30,000 protestant denominations, many being one of a kind, this is a challenge.
The worship spaces tend to be everything from steel buildings to store fronts to double wides or single wides. The few that are purpose built rarely involve architects instead relying on building committees and sketches from a contractor. These buildings look more like residential structures with a large porch added and a fiberglass steeple stuck on for good measure.
There will never be a pipe organ but in those that use mechanical instruments a piano will be found and sometimes an electronic organ or keyboard. Drum sets are popular for 'praise bands" and large tv screens are a must. I remember asking why the piano and organ were being played at the same time...the answer was we can't sing with just the organ...I said honey, y'all can't sing with either one!
The lighting will be florescent tubes and garish. If there is a baptistery it will be painted to look like a river and curtains obscure it until just the right moment.
The congregation remains seated and virtually silent the entire time unless attempting to sing. They might stand for a song or prayer. One person generally does all the talking and praying.
The preacher rarely has an advanced degree and virtually never from an accredited university.
The preacher wears a jacket and tie, never choir dress but I've even seen them in bib overalls.
These churches have made up names, made up theology and more often than not function as a family business with husband and wife both on the payroll.
Communion is distributed via little cups in stacked nickel plated trays with little holes to hold the little cups.
In the past few years "community churches" have begun to spring up claiming to be non-denominational. So we see churches like Greater Love Ministries, Abundant Life Fellowship, Soul Winners Ministries, Adventure in Faith Church, Galilean House of Worship, Alpha Apostolic Temple Church, Bible Way Holy Church, Temple of Spirit in Truth, Refuge Center of Deliverance and on and on and on.
How could I have left out the low end protestant requirement to have artificial flowers sitting everywhere?
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#129
Jul 4, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
How could I have left out the low end protestant requirement to have artificial flowers sitting everywhere?
Does it really make any difference? Since it started in the early church without buildings as we know them today.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#130
Jul 4, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are making my point. Protestants don't pray in Church. Just the preacher.
I am not saying they don't pray at all.
Might be true in some legalistic churches, but not in bible churches-you are dead wrong! In catholic churches they pray according to the script-to me that is very low end prayer.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#131
Jul 4, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
That fallen away Catholic brought that from the Mass. It is called the Prayers of the Faithful.
Those are read at Mass and the whole Church stops and pray for them.
All of our other 35 classes have teachers who have no catholic background and all of them do the same things-it is not a catholic idea we were doing that before he became a class leader! It is bible-bible church.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#132
Jul 4, 2013
 
Btw, we do not read prayers or recite prayers, we are encouraged to pray from what is in our hearts. We have another former catholic family in our class who are still struggling to shed their legalism.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#133
Jul 4, 2013
 

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Did Ashdod have a high end or low end church? I ask because that's exactly what this high end/low end stuff is. Unbiblical nonsense.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#134
Jul 4, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me the exact verse that says there will be a book that will show everything you need to know for salvation. First there will be a church will be the pillar and foundation of truth and then 350 years later the book will show up and that's all you need.
But wait there is more. That verse will say the Church will exist for 1100 years more and only then the Bible only will take affect.
Even Protestants theologians use high and low church. It describes the way a non Catholic ecclesial community "worships".
2 songs, a man preaching for 40 minutes in a building with that you with just paint on the walls is low church.
Basically it describes the "holiness" of worship.
You're dodging all those verses of Jesus mentioning the scriptures (plural); Peter saying Paul was scripture, etc. Scripture all sufficient; not going beyond what is written (you guys really missed that one). And the Greek word for "bible" literally being the first word of the NT. No, scripture doesn't mention scripture.

High and low church describes the "holiness" of worship? In who's man made opinion did this come from? Are high end prots just as arrogant as the RCC seems to be?
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#135
Jul 4, 2013
 

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Mike, do you approve of the language Mark uses here? Is that standard catholic fare? Is it a venial or mortal sin? Or perfectly ok to talk to "low church, low end prots" in such a way?

Repost- awaiting answer.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#136
Jul 4, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Said the judge, jury and executioner. Too bad I'm not allowed to use the language you bashers deserve.
You've been holding back? Mark you may never get out of purgatory with a potty mouth.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#137
Jul 5, 2013
 
Parameters of truth, isn't this what the discussion of Protestantism VS the Roman Catholic Church? Who both teaches and lives the truth that was prophesied in the Scriptures and is given by the very Lord of all creation? When the 'falling away' takes place, what might that actually mean?

Is the 'falling away' the loss of authority to baptize in the Name, as LDS believe, that when the apostles died and no one was left 'in charge' of the authority on earth, that the Church died, only to be resurrected by Joseph Smith Jr? Or when there was actually a 'Pope' appointed well over 100 years from the departure of the original twelve apostles? Can the truth of Christ and authority of Christ, who is in heaven, be affected by who dies on earth? I don't think so, as He said that the gates of hell (death) cannot prevail upon the Church. It therefore must be according to what He taught, that the truth He taught is the authoritative and living seed that is capable to bring life, comfort, hope and salvation to those who believe it, eat it, live it, and come to know the truth and actuality of it.

And 'it' is a message that must be eaten as a whole - not just nibbling on John 3:16.

Therefore, it comes down to the need to abide in His words of life, which is the opposite of mere trusting in what He did, that it has nothing to do with what you do. He said it has everything to do with what you do -'Why do you call Me 'Lord' and not do as I say?'

Catholic and Protestant and even CoC and LDS and SDA fall flat on their face on the doctrine of the Christ - to 'ABIDE' in what He taught.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#138
Jul 5, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
Catholic and Protestant and even CoC and LDS and SDA fall flat on their face on the doctrine of the Christ - to 'ABIDE' in what He taught.
Jesus said:
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you."
John 15:1-7

In those seven verses, the word ABIDE is mentioned seven times. The context of those verses provides us with a lot of light as to what is required of us by GOD for our eternal salvation.

Jesus was very clear in what we must do in order to have Him ABIDE in us and we in Him.

He left this command for us in John 6:53-57, and it is the only place in Holy Scripture in which you will find it:

53 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you (the taken away branch); 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 HE WHO EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD ABIDES IN ME, AND I IN HIM. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me."

What does "Truly, truly" mean to you in verse 53? What does "unless" mean?

The body lives because it receives real food sustenance. Starve the body and it will die.

Just as the body needs real sustenance, so does the soul, else it will not bear fruit.

The soul lives by real Divine sustenance, the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#139
Jul 5, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Might be true in some legalistic churches, but not in bible churches-you are dead wrong! In catholic churches they pray according to the script-to me that is very low end prayer.
It is using the words of the Bible to pray with. Is that low end prayer?

Is the Lord's prayer a low end prayer?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#140
Jul 5, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Might be true in some legalistic churches, but not in bible churches-you are dead wrong! In catholic churches they pray according to the script-to me that is very low end prayer.
When do you stand up and pray in your Bible churh service?

You know only ministers are allowed to pray out loud.

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