Dave P

Lexington, KY

#202 Jul 6, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
To my Topix friends...I have recently installed a new anti-virus program, Avast. Everytime I come back to this site Avast goes crazy with Malware Blocked and Threat Has Been Detected warnings. Doesn't happen anywhere else I go. Are our computers under attack here?
I haven't been having any problems. Would not be surprised at all if we were. Another site I frequent though had similar problems.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#203 Jul 6, 2013
John 1:12- "But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those WHO BELIEVE IN HIS NAME..."

Matthew 3:9- "Do not suppose that you can say to yourselves,'We have Abraham for our father', for I say to you, that God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham."

Romans 9:6- "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are from Israel; neither are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants.....That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."

Romans 11:26- "And thus all Israel shall be saved".

This is all enough to show that a physical act or family line, being "grandfathered" in, doesn't make us children of God. The scripture is clear that faith in Jesus Christ makes us children of God, not a ritual that we have no idea about. Being physically circumcised didn't guarantee the Israelites being REAL children of Abraham. Does being baptized as an infant with no understanding, by sprinkling, put one into a covenant relationship with God? Scripture says no.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#204 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
John 1:12- "But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those WHO BELIEVE IN HIS NAME..."
Matthew 3:9- "Do not suppose that you can say to yourselves,'We have Abraham for our father', for I say to you, that God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham."
Romans 9:6- "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are from Israel; neither are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants.....That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."
Romans 11:26- "And thus all Israel shall be saved".
This is all enough to show that a physical act or family line, being "grandfathered" in, doesn't make us children of God. The scripture is clear that faith in Jesus Christ makes us children of God, not a ritual that we have no idea about. Being physically circumcised didn't guarantee the Israelites being REAL children of Abraham. Does being baptized as an infant with no understanding, by sprinkling, put one into a covenant relationship with God? Scripture says no.
I agree with this. I have seen christians who are so obsessed with water baptism, they do not spend enough time with teaching the gospel of God's grace. It would be so much better if new converts could be like the eunuch who asked "what hinders me from being baptized".

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#205 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
And the cavalry worries about whether a church is low, medium, or high end.
It's more about those 30,000+ different interpretations of Sola Scriptura.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#206 Jul 6, 2013
Dodgeball on the circumcision idea?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#207 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
It is heresy to prevent children from going to Jesus as he commanded.
*In your infant baptism theory, children aren't going to Jesus. They have no idea who He is. You're taking them to get sprinkled because of YOUR faith in the magic water.
The "Bible and Me". TO hell with the kids.

Pope Dave has spoken. The tens of Billions of infant baptisms from AD 32 to today are completely invalid and all in hell.

Sola Scriptura is lunacy.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#208 Jul 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with this. I have seen christians who are so obsessed with water baptism, they do not spend enough time with teaching the gospel of God's grace. It would be so much better if new converts could be like the eunuch who asked "what hinders me from being baptized".
Yes. I may have been one of those. I agree that it would be nice if new converts said that very thing.

One of the things that even now in evangelicalism bothers me is the lack of urgency in baptism. We may have different ideas about it, but we see that in the NT baptism wasn't delayed for weeks or months. It was immediate. If we believe with all our hearts that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, why do we tarry, and why do our churches tarry to obey the Lords will?

My understanding and belief about baptism has come a long way. But this one still bugs me.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#209 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The "Bible and Me". TO hell with the kids.
Pope Dave has spoken. The tens of Billions of infant baptisms from AD 32 to today are completely invalid and all in hell.
Sola Scriptura is lunacy.
If you think that's what we're saying at all then your opinion on this is lunacy.

*We think children are innocent in God's eyes until old enough to know and understand right and wrong, His will, etc. Infants don't qualify. A child dies in a state of innocence in infancy, we believe they are in heaven with the Lord.

Those children that live don't stay in infancy and ignorance. Then they will understand that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, the need for a Savior, etc.

*Under your infant baptism system, one is "saved" at a few days old, and never find themselves in a lost condition. Where is the conviction of sin? Where is the need for a Savior? Where is the realization of what the gospel truly is and means to us? And doesn't it also present an idea that one's lifestyle isn't necessarily very important? After all, being catholic= being saved; and as long as I don't commit a "mortal sin", I can to penance and have people work to get me out of purgatory after I die to go to heaven.

How is any of that Biblical? Or does that matter?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#210 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. I may have been one of those. I agree that it would be nice if new converts said that very thing.
One of the things that even now in evangelicalism bothers me is the lack of urgency in baptism. We may have different ideas about it, but we see that in the NT baptism wasn't delayed for weeks or months. It was immediate. If we believe with all our hearts that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, why do we tarry, and why do our churches tarry to obey the Lords will?
My understanding and belief about baptism has come a long way. But this one still bugs me.
Well, I know this much: Since I have been in the bible church I have witnessed many more baptisms than in the coc. No heart felt pleas to get someone baptized. We offer water baptism on special occasions, but almost every sunday we are reminded that anyone who wants to be baptized that they can be, even today. What often happens is that we will announce that a certain person will be baptized after the services and when we go outside to the new baptistery to witness it, there is usually others there who want to be baptized also.

Frankly, I think the pressure the coc uses is a deterrent for many people, I know it was for me...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#211 Jul 6, 2013
The opposit of this is the catholics, they were baptized as babies and believe that made them a christian. I had a catholic friend at work that I began discussing the bible with-when I asked him if he was a christian he said Yes, I was baptized as a baby.

This is the epitome of baptismal regeneration.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

San Antonio, TX

#212 Jul 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
The opposit of this is the catholics, they were baptized as babies and believe that made them a christian. I had a catholic friend at work that I began discussing the bible with-when I asked him if he was a christian he said Yes, I was baptized as a baby.
This is the epitome of baptismal regeneration.
Jesus said you are going to hell because you are not his disciple.

Jesus said you are not a Christian.

Luke, Chapter 14, 33: So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#213 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
It is heresy to prevent children from going to Jesus as he commanded.
*In your infant baptism theory, children aren't going to Jesus. They have no idea who He is. You're taking them to get sprinkled because of YOUR faith in the magic water.
FYI only high end Prots sprinkle. Catholics pour or immerse.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#214 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Dodgeball on the circumcision idea?
Wish I could have dodged that. From what I hear I think I would have a lot more fun.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#215 Jul 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think that's what we're saying at all then your opinion on this is lunacy.
*We think children are innocent in God's eyes until old enough to know and understand right and wrong, His will, etc. Infants don't qualify. A child dies in a state of innocence in infancy, we believe they are in heaven with the Lord.
Those children that live don't stay in infancy and ignorance. Then they will understand that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, the need for a Savior, etc.
*Under your infant baptism system, one is "saved" at a few days old, and never find themselves in a lost condition. Where is the conviction of sin? Where is the need for a Savior? Where is the realization of what the gospel truly is and means to us? And doesn't it also present an idea that one's lifestyle isn't necessarily very important? After all, being catholic= being saved; and as long as I don't commit a "mortal sin", I can to penance and have people work to get me out of purgatory after I die to go to heaven.
How is any of that Biblical? Or does that matter?
But you do not think your own children are Christians. Right?

Of course it is biblical, just not your personal interpretation. All Jews, and me, knew what a household means. It meant to Jews, everybody, even slaves. Not once verse says except infants. Not one verse says "age of accountability".

Do you count children as part of your household? I guess you don't.
You are waiting for them to be of that "magic" age so they can be.

What age is that? 4,6 10, 14 ? What age does the Bible say?

Every verse about repenting and being baptized were made to adult converts.

Not one Jew, none, would have ever converted to Christianity without their children and they did not have to because infants were baptized instead of circumcised for 1800 years.

Low church Prots are the only ones to believe this anti-children doctrine and it didnt start until the 1800.

The first explicit evidence of children of believing households being baptized comes from the early Church—where infant baptism was uniformly upheld and regarded as apostolic. In fact, the only reported controversy on the subject was a third-century debate whether or not to delay baptism until the eighth day after birth, like its Old Testament equivalent, circumcision!
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#216 Jul 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
The opposit of this is the catholics, they were baptized as babies and believe that made them a christian. I had a catholic friend at work that I began discussing the bible with-when I asked him if he was a christian he said Yes, I was baptized as a baby.
This is the epitome of baptismal regeneration.
I am proud of your friend. The absolute right answer and the only answer for anybody claiming to be Christian for 1800 year including Protesters.

You are very much like liberals and the Constitution.

You take the Bible and change it to mean anything you want.

I wish you would you treat the Bible as good as you do the Constitution if you really a political conservative.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

San Antonio, TX

#217 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
But you do not think your own children are Christians. Right?
Of course it is biblical, just not your personal interpretation. All Jews, and me, knew what a household means. It meant to Jews, everybody, even slaves. Not once verse says except infants. Not one verse says "age of accountability".
Do you count children as part of your household? I guess you don't.
You are waiting for them to be of that "magic" age so they can be.
What age is that? 4,6 10, 14 ? What age does the Bible say?
Every verse about repenting and being baptized were made to adult converts.
Not one Jew, none, would have ever converted to Christianity without their children and they did not have to because infants were baptized instead of circumcised for 1800 years.
Low church Prots are the only ones to believe this anti-children doctrine and it didnt start until the 1800.
The first explicit evidence of children of believing households being baptized comes from the early Church—where infant baptism was uniformly upheld and regarded as apostolic. In fact, the only reported controversy on the subject was a third-century debate whether or not to delay baptism until the eighth day after birth, like its Old Testament equivalent, circumcision!
Are you ever going to forsake all that you have and become a disciple of Christ?

Luke, Chapter 14, 33: So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#218 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The "Bible and Me". TO hell with the kids.
Pope Dave has spoken. The tens of Billions of infant baptisms from AD 32 to today are completely invalid and all in hell.
Sola Scriptura is lunacy.
So is proof texting while driving...against the law in many places.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#219 Jul 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I am proud of your friend. The absolute right answer and the only answer for anybody claiming to be Christian for 1800 year including Protesters.
You are very much like liberals and the Constitution.
You take the Bible and change it to mean anything you want.
I wish you would you treat the Bible as good as you do the Constitution if you really a political conservative.
How could that man be a christian, he had never been a a catholic church in his life except when his mother had him christened?

If that is how people become christians, you should go all over the world and do nothing but make sure infants get sprinkled.

Heck even the mormons have you beat on that, they do baptisms for the dead because that way they can make them saved mormons.

If you believe in that stuff, you are as dumb as a box of rocks...

Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#220 Jul 6, 2013
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you ever going to forsake all that you have and become a disciple of Christ?
Luke, Chapter 14, 33: So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
I did. I left Protestantism and went home to Rome.

Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#221 Jul 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
How could that man be a christian, he had never been a a catholic church in his life except when his mother had him christened?
If that is how people become christians, you should go all over the world and do nothing but make sure infants get sprinkled.
Heck even the mormons have you beat on that, they do baptisms for the dead because that way they can make them saved mormons.
If you believe in that stuff, you are as dumb as a box of rocks...
If you don't believe in that 'stuff' you are completely wrong. History proves you wrong and the Bible proves you wrong.

Do you have any young grand kids. I can baptize them in an emergency if you want them to be a Christian.

Are they pagans or Christians. What does your Bible Church call them?

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