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Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#221 Feb 2, 2013
Bobby, the performance test, according to the Apostle John, is found in grasping both I and II John, particularly II John 9-11.

If John spoke the truth, this is also true, isn't it? He is the same Apostle who wrote John 3:16:-)
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#222 Feb 2, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
"All told, every group we see can be tied back to the mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth."
Actually not quite so. The actuality of the RCC didn't start till well after 350 AD. The Pagan infiltration started in the lifetime of the Apostles - but there have always been those who refused Pagan tradion infiltrating the faith, as well as those who rejected any influence of the RCC.
There is more historically that we DON'T know than we do know.
But we do the best we can, and yes, it's about what WE do with the word of God, rather than perpetuate errors of the 'fathers' who didn't 'abide' in what Jesus taught.
Have to disagree to a small degree. As you said, the pagan infiltration and false doctrine was ongoing in the lives of the apostles. Those departures from the faith eventually led to the RCC. Yes, there has always been those who rejected falsehoods. We are in agreement there. But as to what the religious world has turned into today, without a doubt it can he traced back to the first century apostates, and definitely to the mother of harlots who appeared later. If false religion is the "mother of harlots", then who are the harlots? Every false way that has since appeared.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#223 Feb 2, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again. Sidney Rigdon was NOT Campbell's 'right hand man'. In fact, there was quite a friction between them. Rigdon believed strongly that Campbell did not go far enough. He was also miffed that Campbell did a bit of NT translation on his own - and I suspect the BOM was the result - Rigdon telling a whole new gospel - after all, if Campbell could change/vary the word of God - he had as much 'authority' as Campbell did:-)
Sad, but apparently true.
Early on Rigdon and Campbell were tight, but you are correct that did change, which might have been the trigger that caused Rigdon to become a Mormon.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#224 Feb 4, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Have to disagree to a small degree. As you said, the pagan infiltration and false doctrine was ongoing in the lives of the apostles. Those departures from the faith eventually led to the RCC. Yes, there has always been those who rejected falsehoods. We are in agreement there. But as to what the religious world has turned into today, without a doubt it can he traced back to the first century apostates, and definitely to the mother of harlots who appeared later. If false religion is the "mother of harlots", then who are the harlots? Every false way that has since appeared.
I think we pretty much agree, and I agree with your comments above. It didn't take RCC to start perversions of the Hope that Jesus taught, but they certainly codified many perversions. Perhaps I and II John are most telling about what Christianity should really be about - rather than the variety of 'Doctrines' and such men have come up with. LDS may complain that all the other Churches are not correct, but the fact is that it is they who have instituted more false doctrines and changes to the word of God than even the RCC did in its 1500 year history - ten times the rate RCC, Luthern, or any other Church. Just look at the BOM, D&C, History of Joseph Smith Jr., book of Moses and Book of Abraham. Their decree on the family put out near the time the issue of one man/one woman marriage debate was taking place in California is about the nearest to the truth they have got in over a hundred years! But why is it that RCC partnereed with LDS and I didn't see major Protestant groups supporting the proposed Ballot Initiative with them, or even as a seperate but distinct group supporting the measure?

Go figure......
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#225 Feb 4, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Early on Rigdon and Campbell were tight, but you are correct that did change, which might have been the trigger that caused Rigdon to become a Mormon.
Want to know more? Read 'Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon', by Arthur Vannick and others. No doubt Rigdon wrote it - took him years to do so, and with certain intent of duping a congregation he'd started in Kirkland, Ohio to receive the 'golden bible' purportedly from JS....
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#226 Feb 4, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Want to know more? Read 'Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon', by Arthur Vannick and others. No doubt Rigdon wrote it - took him years to do so, and with certain intent of duping a congregation he'd started in Kirkland, Ohio to receive the 'golden bible' purportedly from JS....
That might be a good read, thanks...

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