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Since: Jul 11

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#21
Apr 12, 2012
 
Bobby wrote:
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Is the old pastor still preaching? Sounds like you have some former ties to this church. In small towns everyone seems to know what is going on. However, they must be doing something right to have a 1000 people in attendance. The church I go to has had times of pastor changes dating back 25 or30 years, but I would not call it a split but attendance did drop. In fact I have seen the same issues in the coc where a new preacher comes in and half the people move to the coc across town following the old preacher. Christians are people and people can be finicky.
I remember a coc I was in where the preacher had an affair and was never able to preach again and I thought he was a pretty good preacher, the church struggled with attendance for years after that. Today it is a thriving church with 1500 or more members.
It is amazing how many people in the coc do church hopping-seems they are never really satisfied:) In fact every church experiences the ebb and flow of change.
I haven't heard anything out of the former pastor. Seems he went to FL to get _______ by some other pastors (restored or something or whatever they call it). My mother-in-law used to attend there, so that's the only ties I have to it. The reason I know so much about it, is that is was highly televised about his affair on our local station. My mother-in-law is one of the people that voted FOR the assistant pastor to get the lead pastor position, but he did not get it, and therefore the church split, and he and she and quite a few others left to start their own thing. Classic split.

I honestly wasn't in the COC long enough to know a lot about their church-hopping habits. Not surprising though. All denominations have that. Sad, too. I wonder if the church back in the first century did that? I can see it now: "Peter, I don't like that Paul's preaching. I think I'm going to walked down the way to Phillip's house and listen to him preach. He's more charismatic, and makes me feel good about myself."
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

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#22
Apr 12, 2012
 
SeekingWanderer wrote:
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I haven't heard anything out of the former pastor. Seems he went to FL to get _______ by some other pastors (restored or something or whatever they call it). My mother-in-law used to attend there, so that's the only ties I have to it. The reason I know so much about it, is that is was highly televised about his affair on our local station. My mother-in-law is one of the people that voted FOR the assistant pastor to get the lead pastor position, but he did not get it, and therefore the church split, and he and she and quite a few others left to start their own thing. Classic split.
I honestly wasn't in the COC long enough to know a lot about their church-hopping habits. Not surprising though. All denominations have that. Sad, too. I wonder if the church back in the first century did that? I can see it now: "Peter, I don't like that Paul's preaching. I think I'm going to walked down the way to Phillip's house and listen to him preach. He's more charismatic, and makes me feel good about myself."
If you will take the time you will find where there was a lot of disagreement in the early church.

Think in these terms: What if every church used the same name? Take a look in any church and you will find differences of opinion concerning doctrine. If you like the name church of Christ then look at all the differences found there. In fact no two people on these threads completely agree with each other. In fact each individual struggles in his own mind with exactly what is perfect doctrine.

The decision we must make is "who can save me" and what really counts. Paul says this:Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

Being in Christ through the power of his Resurrection is what gives us new life. Now you can add all those things you are thinking in your mind right now, but without the power/gift of a resurrected life, nothing else counts.

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#23
Apr 12, 2012
 
Bobby wrote:
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Being in Christ through the power of his Resurrection is what gives us new life. Now you can add all those things you are thinking in your mind right now, but without the power/gift of a resurrected life, nothing else counts.
What I find the most ironic and funny is that a lot of people harp on "resurrection, resurrection", and to that I agree. However, and here's the catch, there a countless number of people who DO NOT want to identify with the resurrection through baptism. What is baptism a symbol of? The burial and resurrection, correct? We go down into the water (burial) and then rise again in newness of life (resurrection). I am amazed, AMAZED, that people who are professing Christians will shun, deny, and in some instances PROFANE the symbol of the burial and resurrection, baptism, as if it's nothing, least of all unnecessary and most of all an "inconvenience".

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

If that one verse ALONE doesn't bespeak the importance of baptism, I could not explain it any further or better than that.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

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#24
Apr 12, 2012
 
SeekingWanderer wrote:
<quoted text>
What I find the most ironic and funny is that a lot of people harp on "resurrection, resurrection", and to that I agree. However, and here's the catch, there a countless number of people who DO NOT want to identify with the resurrection through baptism. What is baptism a symbol of? The burial and resurrection, correct? We go down into the water (burial) and then rise again in newness of life (resurrection). I am amazed, AMAZED, that people who are professing Christians will shun, deny, and in some instances PROFANE the symbol of the burial and resurrection, baptism, as if it's nothing, least of all unnecessary and most of all an "inconvenience".
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
If that one verse ALONE doesn't bespeak the importance of baptism, I could not explain it any further or better than that.
I think you have been listening to the coc to much. I only know of two people why refuse to be water baptized and still claim to be a christian.

Water baptism is important but it is the power behind our salvation. The power comes from Christ's Resurrection. That is the one thing which separates us from all other religions. Their founders are still in their graves!
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

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#25
Apr 12, 2012
 
Who not why

Water baptism is (not) the power

Guess I should proof read:)
Bfrank

Martinsville, VA

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#26
Apr 12, 2012
 
SeekingWanderer wrote:
<quoted text>
What I find the most ironic and funny is that a lot of people harp on "resurrection, resurrection", and to that I agree. However, and here's the catch, there a countless number of people who DO NOT want to identify with the resurrection through baptism. What is baptism a symbol of? The burial and resurrection, correct? We go down into the water (burial) and then rise again in newness of life (resurrection). I am amazed, AMAZED, that people who are professing Christians will shun, deny, and in some instances PROFANE the symbol of the burial and resurrection, baptism, as if it's nothing, least of all unnecessary and most of all an "inconvenience".
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
If that one verse ALONE doesn't bespeak the importance of baptism, I could not explain it any further or better than that.
I'm amazed to see how unspiritual & natural minded some religious "experts" are. Does the baptism by man save? OR is it a work of the Holy Spirit?
**For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Corinthians 12:13
**set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 2Corinthians 1:22
**And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

The natural minded person who would deny any workings of the Holy Spirit in todays times would naturally as a result depend on human effort for their salvation. That's why they accept the human part,(the dipping in water)-the first part of Acts 2:28>>
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins-

Yet they reject the Holy Spirit in salvation>>
"and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

This makes me wonder if the Holy Spirit isn't working in their lives-if they "set their minds on the things of man, then WHO is at work?...
**But he turned and said to Peter,“Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23
Bfrank

Martinsville, VA

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#27
Apr 12, 2012
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have been listening to the coc to much. I only know of two people why refuse to be water baptized and still claim to be a christian.
Water baptism is important but it is the power behind our salvation. The power comes from Christ's Resurrection. That is the one thing which separates us from all other religions. Their founders are still in their graves!
The bible confirms that the Holy Spirit rose Christ from the dead, and in the same way the Holy Spirit does the same for us....
**If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:11
**The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.Romans 8:16

Since: Jul 11

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#28
Apr 12, 2012
 
Bobby wrote:
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I think you have been listening to the coc to much. I only know of two people why refuse to be water baptized and still claim to be a christian.
Water baptism is important but it is the power behind our salvation. The power comes from Christ's Resurrection. That is the one thing which separates us from all other religions. Their founders are still in their graves!
It's not so much (most of the time) as a "refusal" to be baptized, it's people's lackadaisical attitude about it, which belies their thoughts about its unimportance. People are like, "well, I'll say the (unscriptural) "sinner's prayer" today, and then at some point in the future, I might get baptized". And normally, the denomination will "schedule" a baptism later on, sometimes weeks or even months down the road. That's a good idea, NOT. If a person wants to "rise in newness of life through baptism", then why on earth would they wait for the "rising"? Do people NOT want to "rise in newness of life"? That confuses me. But then again, looking at the sad state of "preaching" nowadays, I can understand why.

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#29
Apr 12, 2012
 
Bfrank wrote:
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I'm amazed to see how unspiritual & natural minded some religious "experts" are. Does the baptism by man save? OR is it a work of the Holy Spirit?
**For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Corinthians 12:13
**set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 2Corinthians 1:22
**And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13
The natural minded person who would deny any workings of the Holy Spirit in todays times would naturally as a result depend on human effort for their salvation. That's why they accept the human part,(the dipping in water)-the first part of Acts 2:28>>
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins-
Yet they reject the Holy Spirit in salvation>>
"and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
This makes me wonder if the Holy Spirit isn't working in their lives-if they "set their minds on the things of man, then WHO is at work?...
**But he turned and said to Peter,“Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23
Thanks for the rehash of old arguments and reset on the baptism argument, but these verses have been dealt with before, numerous times.

But since Bobby had mentioned resurrection in an above post, that is why I tied it to the appropriate verse in Romans, regarding rising in newness of life through baptism.

We are, at this time, not discussing the Holy Spirit. I don't think you have much of the Spirit in you either, or you'd understand that you simply cannot make one part of the Bible of no consequence by using another part of the Bible, and that's EXACTLY what you are doing. You're verse-battling. You're not trying to prove one verse with another verse or verses, you're actually using one verse to DISPROVE another verse, which seems to be common on this forum. How can you deny one verse while promoting another? It's heretical.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

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#30
Apr 12, 2012
 
SeekingWanderer wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not so much (most of the time) as a "refusal" to be baptized, it's people's lackadaisical attitude about it, which belies their thoughts about its unimportance. People are like, "well, I'll say the (unscriptural) "sinner's prayer" today, and then at some point in the future, I might get baptized". And normally, the denomination will "schedule" a baptism later on, sometimes weeks or even months down the road. That's a good idea, NOT. If a person wants to "rise in newness of life through baptism", then why on earth would they wait for the "rising"? Do people NOT want to "rise in newness of life"? That confuses me. But then again, looking at the sad state of "preaching" nowadays, I can understand why.
Have you been water baptized?

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#31
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bobby wrote:
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Have you been water baptized?
Of course, multiple times. Once in a Baptist denomination, and once in a COC denomination.
Bfrank

Martinsville, VA

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#32
Apr 13, 2012
 
SeekingWanderer wrote:
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Of course, multiple times. Once in a Baptist denomination, and once in a COC denomination.
Now everything makes sense, you where "baptized in a COC denomination"...that's why the superior attitude & the contempt for denominations. Sounds like you had a bad experience with church, did you drink Johnny's kool-aid?

Since: Jan 12

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#33
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bfrank wrote:
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Now everything makes sense, you where "baptized in a COC denomination"...that's why the superior attitude & the contempt for denominations. Sounds like you had a bad experience with church, did you drink Johnny's kool-aid?
You and Bobby should register an account on here. You both seem to struggle keeping up with things. If you have an account, you can better keep track with your comments and comments from others. My point being. SW has stated already on here that he once attended Johnny’s Church. Matter of fact, you said you have been there too. What flavor was your Kool-Aid.
Bfrank

Martinsville, VA

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#34
Apr 13, 2012
 
testing the spirits wrote:
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You and Bobby should register an account on here. You both seem to struggle keeping up with things. If you have an account, you can better keep track with your comments and comments from others. My point being. SW has stated already on here that he once attended Johnny’s Church. Matter of fact, you said you have been there too. What flavor was your Kool-Aid.
Yes I've been there once. I was denied communion & treated like a sinner because I wasn't a member of the Lord's Church = translated >their church<...But you don't hear me talking "Johnny-speak", like you two/one do. In fact I resist Johnny's kool-aid & those who preach it-guess that's why we don't see eye to eye?

Since: Jan 12

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#35
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bfrank wrote:
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Yes I've been there once. I was denied communion & treated like a sinner because I wasn't a member of the Lord's Church = translated >their church<...But you don't hear me talking "Johnny-speak", like you two/one do. In fact I resist Johnny's kool-aid & those who preach it-guess that's why we don't see eye to eye?
Yeah, I took my siser law there once and she came out feeling just as you. She was denied communion. Scripture says to examine ourself NOT each other. So, on this, I am on the same page as you.

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#36
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bfrank wrote:
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But you don't hear me talking "Johnny-speak", like you two/one do. In fact ?
LOL. I just noticed that you are playing Bobbys card, thinking SW and I as the same person. Sorry, but we arent. I'd be happy to meet you in public somewhere.

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#37
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bfrank wrote:
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Now everything makes sense, you where "baptized in a COC denomination"...that's why the superior attitude & the contempt for denominations. Sounds like you had a bad experience with church, did you drink Johnny's kool-aid?
Dude, you make NO SENSE. Baptists normally don't fight against ALL other denominations, they accept some. And I've never known them to have a "superior attitude". I was baptized in a Baptist church as a younger individual, and in the COC years later.

I have contempt for ALL denominations, not because I have had bad experiences with ALL of them, but because I know the word of God, and I know that ALL denominations (including the COC) are man-made. Man-made denominations have one thing in common: they're all based on man's interpretation of the Bible.

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#38
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bfrank wrote:
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Yes I've been there once. I was denied communion & treated like a sinner because I wasn't a member of the Lord's Church = translated >their church<...But you don't hear me talking "Johnny-speak", like you two/one do. In fact I resist Johnny's kool-aid & those who preach it-guess that's why we don't see eye to eye?
I guess Johnny's brand of denomination is not your brand, huh? In reality, none of you have any Biblical room to talk, because you ALL prefer your own brand of man-made doctrine. When you ALL shun denominations like the Bible says, then you can have room to talk and have a little respectability. Don't be mad at us because we shun ALL man-made denominations, and you cling to them.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

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#39
Apr 13, 2012
 
Sw says: Man-made denominations have one thing in common: they're all based on man's interpretation of the Bible.

So I guess the best way to not be in a denomination is to not go to church anywhere:)

Since: Jul 11

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#40
Apr 13, 2012
 
Bobby wrote:
Sw says: Man-made denominations have one thing in common: they're all based on man's interpretation of the Bible.
So I guess the best way to not be in a denomination is to not go to church anywhere:)
Not "not anywhere", but to follow the examples of the Bible, which was to meet _______(where?). That's right, you got it, in "homes" of other church members of the body.

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