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obdII

Los Angeles, CA

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#121
May 19, 2013
 
VAG COM 11.2,Vag Com 11.2 supports Measuring Values, Output Tests, and Adaptations on control modules using the new UDS/ODX/ASAM protocol.http://www.nobd2.com/ vag-com-11-2-hex-can-bus-dual- k-can-usb-interface.html
what

Chicago, IL

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#122
May 19, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
Our catholic friends appear to sidestep the issues that arise-the contradictions between their history and their claims and the scriptures; plus denial of the woes that the CC has perpetrated over the years. It is easy to blame men-but forget about blaming the institution.
Penn State anyone? Was that simply the fault of several individuals-or did the institution as a whole fail those young men who were abused?
Matthew, Chapter 10, 33: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Is Jesus your redeemer?

Yes or No?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#123
May 20, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing like siding with those who burned anyone at the stake that didn't agree with their doctrine? Or those who protect child rapists? I know who ISN'T the true Church by their works, just as Jesus said to note who is who and who is not.
You really should judge things as Jesus would.
Name one Catholic Priest or Bishop that burned somebody at the stake. Those were state executions. The country had declared a state religion like England the some Scandinavian countries still have.

There are Pedophiles in every area of society. The family unit is the worst. Fathers the worst in that. There are sinners in every Church except maybe yours BW.

Do you support America? Are you one of those who say that Jesus has blessed America?

Estimates are that the Government of America killed between 1-20 million native Americans not counting individuals who killed them for fun. Lets go to the middle. 10 million people killed because they were in the way.

Will Jesus judge you because you are an American?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#124
May 20, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
Our catholic friends appear to sidestep the issues that arise-the contradictions between their history and their claims and the scriptures; plus denial of the woes that the CC has perpetrated over the years. It is easy to blame men-but forget about blaming the institution.
Penn State anyone? Was that simply the fault of several individuals-or did the institution as a whole fail those young men who were abused?
God forgives sin, that is part of what his nature. But to claim that the pope, the church and Mary were above sin is no small thing, I believe that would be considered as heresy in most every denomination.

However I am Glad Mike came on here, he has helped us to see how foolish our coc fiends and family are when they try to establish themselves as the one true church or the Mormons-etc. But in respect for the catholics, they are as divided as any large denomination on their beliefs in spite what the hierarchy's standard doctrine says. I have found that leaving a church family is a very difficult thing, similar to a divorce.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#125
May 20, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
Our catholic friends appear to sidestep the issues that arise-the contradictions between their history and their claims and the scriptures; plus denial of the woes that the CC has perpetrated over the years. It is easy to blame men-but forget about blaming the institution.
Penn State anyone? Was that simply the fault of several individuals-or did the institution as a whole fail those young men who were abused?
Men did it not Penn State. They punished the ten of thousand of students and staff who had nothing to do with it. 3 or 4 men did.

Once again Americans killed millions of Indian men because they were in the way. Are all Americans guilty of that and of slavery.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#126
May 20, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
God forgives sin, that is part of what his nature. But to claim that the pope, the church and Mary were above sin is no small thing, I believe that would be considered as heresy in most every denomination.
However I am Glad Mike came on here, he has helped us to see how foolish our coc fiends and family are when they try to establish themselves as the one true church or the Mormons-etc. But in respect for the catholics, they are as divided as any large denomination on their beliefs in spite what the hierarchy's standard doctrine says. I have found that leaving a church family is a very difficult thing, similar to a divorce.
Bobby. You are wrong. Nowhere will you find the Pope says he is without sin.

I am glad you used denomination. Where is that in the Bible? You are member of a religious community. Denominations was invented by the Protesters.

I have always said that many Catholics are cafeteria Catholics. Pick and choose.

Bobby when you get a Chance please tell me how the book, the Bible, was created.

Also tell me what are the names of any other church other than the Catholic Church, that existed until 1500.

William gave a good example of what the job of the Pope is. IT is to preserve the Truth as taught by Jesus and the Apostles. It was not to create new truth. He can see in his book how hard that it.

The Reformation is proof of what happens when Satan deals a good blow. The Truth is diluted.

Today's Pope is still protecting it because Jesus said The Church will not fail.
what

Chicago, IL

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#127
May 20, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Both of you denied Jesus.

And we are a witness.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#128
May 20, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Baloney! The church is the people of God and people sin...
The Church is visible. A light set upon a hill. It is the pillar and foundation of Truth. The people of god are not the pillar and ground of Truth.


Jesus said he would protect his Church from all evil didn't he. That means sin.

If your Pastor commits adultery, did your Church commit adultery?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

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#129
May 20, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby. You are wrong. Nowhere will you find the Pope says he is without sin.
I am glad you used denomination. Where is that in the Bible? You are member of a religious community. Denominations was invented by the Protesters.
I have always said that many Catholics are cafeteria Catholics. Pick and choose.
Bobby when you get a Chance please tell me how the book, the Bible, was created.
Also tell me what are the names of any other church other than the Catholic Church, that existed until 1500.
William gave a good example of what the job of the Pope is. IT is to preserve the Truth as taught by Jesus and the Apostles. It was not to create new truth. He can see in his book how hard that it.
The Reformation is proof of what happens when Satan deals a good blow. The Truth is diluted.
Today's Pope is still protecting it because Jesus said The Church will not fail.
So is the RCC leading the restoration movement?:)
William

Birmingham, AL

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#130
May 20, 2013
 
"Men did it not Penn State. They punished the ten of thousand of students and staff who had nothing to do with it. 3 or 4 men did."

That is 100% correct. There was a conspiracy among 4 men to keep what Sandusky did from getting in the way of the success of the football program. End of story. There was absolutely no institutional intent to let what happened happen.

Penn State, the institution, bore the brunt of what happened and will continue to do so via the Scarlet Letter hung around their neck by the NCAA.

But at the same time, these are uncharted waters, legally-speaking, for what happened there. And as a part-time professor at a university in Alabama, I can assure you that what happened at Penn State has triggered a new round of CYA legal language and staff training/protocols for sexual topics.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#131
May 20, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church is visible. A light set upon a hill. It is the pillar and foundation of Truth. The people of god are not the pillar and ground of Truth.
Jesus said he would protect his Church from all evil didn't he. That means sin.
If your Pastor commits adultery, did your Church commit adultery?
You keep placing the church on a pedestal as resembling an institution like a college or university. It is building constructed with people-it is a living organism-not built with human hands.

Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself.

Notice-Peter is not the cornerstone. No mention of a pope or a vatican.

Much of the catholic language is not found in scripture.

Now for something I think we can agree on. There is nothing specifically wrong with rituals or traditions as long as they do not take the place of what God intended.

What I see is that often times they replace the true object of our worship-like in "idol worship".
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#132
May 20, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Men did it not Penn State. They punished the ten of thousand of students and staff who had nothing to do with it. 3 or 4 men did.

That is 100% correct. There was a conspiracy among 4 men to keep what Sandusky did from getting in the way of the success of the football program. End of story. There was absolutely no institutional intent to let what happened happen.

Penn State, the institution, bore the brunt of what happened and will continue to do so via the Scarlet Letter hung around their neck by the NCAA.

But at the same time, these are uncharted waters, legally-speaking, for what happened there. And as a part-time professor at a university in Alabama, I can assure you that what happened at Penn State has triggered a new round of CYA legal language and staff training/protocols for sexual topics.

*Gentlemen, first of all let me say that yes, individuals are guilty of the crimes at Penn State, no doubt about it. Individuals should be, and have, been held accountable-although can justice truly be done for the crimes that were committed?

My point is this-I disagree respectfully about the institution not being complicit. Look at the culture around Penn State and football. William, if you are in Alabama, you know better than all about this. What would Alabama and Auburn faithful do to protect the program, make sure they win big? People would deny any wrongdoing to their dying breath, until public outcry and facts were so great it could no longer be denied.

Look at Penn State. Statues of Joe Paterno. Buildings with his name on it. Financial windfalls the entire university benefitted from. People that to this day deny the man is guilty of anything. Guys, ice cream shops in State College PA had specialty ice cream cones-a sugar cone with two scoops on top side by side-called the "Sandusky" for years before the allegations came out because many people already knew about his actions.

The institution created and promoted a culture there that allowed one man to commit crimes against young men, and others to cover it up to keep the good times rolling.

*In the same breath, how can the catholic "organization" get a pass for what its leaders and individuals have done, as the organization fosters an enviroment that allows it? Does that mean all catholics are guilty? No. But the organization itself shares responsibility-especially when it holds doctrines and teachings that help lead to such activities.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#133
May 20, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep placing the church on a pedestal as resembling an institution like a college or university. It is building constructed with people-it is a living organism-not built with human hands.
Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself.
Notice-Peter is not the cornerstone. No mention of a pope or a vatican.
Much of the catholic language is not found in scripture.
Now for something I think we can agree on. There is nothing specifically wrong with rituals or traditions as long as they do not take the place of what God intended.
What I see is that often times they replace the true object of our worship-like in "idol worship".
Absolutely agree.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#134
May 20, 2013
 
"My point is this-I disagree respectfully about the institution not being complicit. Look at the culture around Penn State and football. William, if you are in Alabama, you know better than all about this. What would Alabama and Auburn faithful do to protect the program, make sure they win big? People would deny any wrongdoing to their dying breath, until public outcry and facts were so great it could no longer be denied."

You allude to "the faithful" here in your statement, and that is people, not the institution itself.

Yes, there are hyper-passionate fans, alumni, and supporters of Alabama and Auburn (where I am visiting adjunct) here that put those institutions on a plane of existence higher than 99.44% of all other colleges and universities, but the institutions themselves are rigorously governed by law and organization. So is Penn State.

What happened with Paterno is that he and three other men decided to engage in a conspiracy to protect their fiefdom at the university, but the university itself was unaware of the behind-the-scenes issues until it was too late. The men got punished (or died, in the case of Joe Paterno) but the institution got nailed to the wall for matters that it itself did not know about, nor would have ever condoned in the first place. If there was a culture of fraud in place at Penn State, then it resided with four men and four men alone.

What happened to Penn State was a trial in a public jury with a sentence handed down by the NCAA as a pre-emptive "we gotta do SOMETHING to look tough here" outcome to a situation that was admittedly unprecedented, but not without the need for proper due process to occur before the finding of fact. Penn State was not granted due process in this matter.

They got no "letter of inquiry" from the NCAA as has been sent to other universities when a serious matter has arisen regarding athletic programs such as Alabama, USC, Ohio State, UNC, Miami, and Tennessee. The Penn State problem was horrific, yes, and is not to be compared to an idiot like Lane Kiffin's clownish behavior while head coach at Tennessee, but the due process of inquiry was not conducted at Penn State by the NCAA in order to arrive at the judgment that resulted.

I hope that the court weighs in on the matter.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#135
May 20, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
Men did it not Penn State. They punished the ten of thousand of students and staff who had nothing to do with it. 3 or 4 men did.
That is 100% correct. There was a conspiracy among 4 men to keep what Sandusky did from getting in the way of the success of the football program. End of story. There was absolutely no institutional intent to let what happened happen.
Penn State, the institution, bore the brunt of what happened and will continue to do so via the Scarlet Letter hung around their neck by the NCAA.
But at the same time, these are uncharted waters, legally-speaking, for what happened there. And as a part-time professor at a university in Alabama, I can assure you that what happened at Penn State has triggered a new round of CYA legal language and staff training/protocols for sexual topics.
*Gentlemen, first of all let me say that yes, individuals are guilty of the crimes at Penn State, no doubt about it. Individuals should be, and have, been held accountable-although can justice truly be done for the crimes that were committed?
My point is this-I disagree respectfully about the institution not being complicit. Look at the culture around Penn State and football. William, if you are in Alabama, you know better than all about this. What would Alabama and Auburn faithful do to protect the program, make sure they win big? People would deny any wrongdoing to their dying breath, until public outcry and facts were so great it could no longer be denied.
Look at Penn State. Statues of Joe Paterno. Buildings with his name on it. Financial windfalls the entire university benefitted from. People that to this day deny the man is guilty of anything. Guys, ice cream shops in State College PA had specialty ice cream cones-a sugar cone with two scoops on top side by side-called the "Sandusky" for years before the allegations came out because many people already knew about his actions.
The institution created and promoted a culture there that allowed one man to commit crimes against young men, and others to cover it up to keep the good times rolling.
*In the same breath, how can the catholic "organization" get a pass for what its leaders and individuals have done, as the organization fosters an enviroment that allows it? Does that mean all catholics are guilty? No. But the organization itself shares responsibility-especially when it holds doctrines and teachings that help lead to such activities.
So if you commit adultery with Church workers, every person in your Church should be held accountable because you foster that sin. God should punish your Church including the members in the pews.

Ridiculous.

Name one doctrine or teaching that leads anybody in the CC to sin.

William

Birmingham, AL

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#136
May 20, 2013
 

Judged:

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"In the same breath, how can the catholic "organization" get a pass for what its leaders and individuals have done, as the organization fosters an enviroment that allows it? Does that mean all catholics are guilty? No. But the organization itself shares responsibility-especially when it holds doctrines and teachings that help lead to such activities."

Now here, with the RCC, there is absolutely an issue with the institution knowing (and at the highest levels of it's governance) what was going on.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#137
May 20, 2013
 

Judged:

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Name one Catholic Priest or Bishop that burned somebody at the stake. Those were state executions. The country had declared a state religion like England the some Scandinavian countries still have.
"But the situation worsened. The pope feared disturbances during the march of the crusading army on Lyons. He was seriously disquieted when he saw that the heresy was spreading into Northern and all Italy, to northern Illyria, up the Danube and into the Pyrenees, from southern France into Germany as far as Passau. So he turned to the king and paladins of France. He summoned them to a crusade against the heretics:'Arise Christian soldiers! The blood of the righteous cries to you to protect the Church against its enemies with the shield of faith. Arise and gird on your swords!' A crusading army, estimated at 100,000 strong, gathered in northern France and laid seige to Beziers. There was a frightful massacre when the town surrendered. Thousands lost their lives in the town church; records speak of 20,000 murdered citizens. There followed the sack of the city."

This was Pope "Innocent" III. By this time, the Holy Roman Empire was in full swing and Innocent had power to declare rulers to 'be kings by the grace of God and the pope.' The ecclesiastical sword was carried by the Chief Shepherd of the Catholic Church. The secular sword he gave to princes, to be wielded on the church's behalf. Innocent III used the kings of Europe like pawns on a chessboard.

Later, a man named John Huss was executed for being a heretic. His crimes? "Christ died for the totality of the church, and the power of the keys had been given to the whole church. Christ had not given it to Peter alone, but to all the Apostles. The term pope was not a Biblical expression but a pagan one. Holy Scripture alone was the rule of faith and the authority in questions of faith." His false view that the Apostles had adequately governed the Church in all that was necessary for salvation, before the office of pope was introduced, was condemned.

He was "handed over to the secular power" on July 6, 1415.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#138
May 20, 2013
 

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Mike P-Name one doctrine or teaching that leads anybody in the CC to sin.

How about starting with vows of celibacy with "clergy"? "Forbidding to marry"?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#139
May 20, 2013
 

Judged:

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So if you commit adultery with Church workers, every person in your Church should be held accountable because you foster that sin. God should punish your Church including the members in the pews.
Ridiculous.
Not saying that sir. Simply saying that for all the talk of the CC being "perfect", it is indeed responsible for many of the sins that it knew about and allowed to continue. That is not just an individual issue, but an institutional one.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#140
May 20, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep placing the church on a pedestal as resembling an institution like a college or university. It is building constructed with people-it is a living organism-not built with human hands.
Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself.
Notice-Peter is not the cornerstone. No mention of a pope or a vatican.
Much of the catholic language is not found in scripture.
Now for something I think we can agree on. There is nothing specifically wrong with rituals or traditions as long as they do not take the place of what God intended.
What I see is that often times they replace the true object of our worship-like in "idol worship".
The Church IS the greatest institution ever created in the History of the world. It was created by Jesus so you bet we put in on a pedestal. You can't understand that because a man created your Church.

Ah. but you will say that the Church is the community of believers. If the Church is the the pillar and foundation of truth then all believers must believe the same thing.

Notice and remember. The CC has never taught that Peter is the cornerstone. You are stating a falsehood. The CC has never taught to worship anything but God, Jesus and the HS. If you continue to say that you are stating a falsehood against the Church Jesus started.

Most Protestant language is not in the Bible, like Protestants or the Baptist Church. Not everything is in the Bible and it says that not everything is in the Bible.

The Church existed 350 years without a Bible. Once again you really don't know how the Bible was created do you?

Why are Protestants so against matter? You know God created man and matter.

Was it wrong for the NT Church to be cured by putting their sick in a position so the Peter's shadow could cure them. Was it idol worship of Paul's handkerchief that it cured people or just a fact. Did people worship the handkerchief or even Paul? No, God cured them because of their faith and he used Paul's handkerchief as the means.

When Jesus cured the blind man, he could have just said you are cured, but he used matter, spit and dirt, to do it.

Bobby: Please tell me how the Bible was created.

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