Since: May 10

Location hidden

#41 Apr 12, 2012
xxx wrote:
<quoted text>
It either matters who does the baptizing or it doesn’t. If it is irrelevant as to who does the baptizing and if she thought at the time of her baptism that she was getting saved, then it should not have been an issue as to what the other people around her thought or were teaching.
If it does matter who does the baptizing, then I can see why it would have needed to be done again—of course then that would mean that our salvation is dependent on the mindset of the people around us. Can that possibly be Biblical?!?
So does it or does it not matter as to who does the baptizing? If it doesn’t matter, and she thought at that time that she was getting saved, then why did you need to re-baptize her?
Because she demanded to be baptized again since the document stated it was not for remission of sins but for a joining of a club. Who am I to deny baptism? By the way another interesting thing about Baptist faith if you have been baptized for Remission of Sins and tell them that they ask you to be re-baptized.
xxx

Loudon, TN

#42 Apr 12, 2012
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Because she demanded to be baptized again since the document stated it was not for remission of sins but for a joining of a club. Who am I to deny baptism? By the way another interesting thing about Baptist faith if you have been baptized for Remission of Sins and tell them that they ask you to be re-baptized.
If she had not demanded it on her own, would you have taken the initiative and encouraged her to be re-baptized?

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

#43 Apr 12, 2012
xxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Symbols are always less than the reality of what they symbolize. A wedding ring is a symbol of marriage, not marriage itself. As such, the ring is less than the actual marriage.
With this in mind, how then can the water in Noah’s day be a symbol of the water in water baptism today when they are both in fact the exact same thing, namely H2O?
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you" 1 Pet. 3:21

xxx, what now saves you according this passage?

www.roysecitycoc.org
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#44 Apr 12, 2012
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you" 1 Pet. 3:21
xxx, what now saves you according this passage?
www.roysecitycoc.org
Water baptism cannot symbolize itself, it by definition must symbolize something else. That thing that is symbolizes is the death burial and resurrection of Jesus-which does save us. Spirit baptism is unseen by the natural eyes thus the symbol...
xxx

Loudon, TN

#45 Apr 13, 2012
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Water baptism cannot symbolize itself, it by definition must symbolize something else. That thing that is symbolizes is the death burial and resurrection of Jesus-which does save us. Spirit baptism is unseen by the natural eyes thus the symbol...
That was my point. The water in Noah’s day cannot be a symbol of the water in water baptism because they are the same thing. No really, they are LITERALLY the same thing as the same water that existed in Noah’s day exists today. Water falls, and it evaporates and it falls again. The water cycle repeats itself as such so that the water we are drinking today was used in the past and will be used in the future long after we are gone.

Similarly, the wife’s wedding ring cannot be a symbol of the husband’s ring and the husband’s ring cannot be a symbol of the wife’s ring because they are in fact the same thing. For the rings to be a symbol, they must symbolize something greater, the actual marriage between the husband and wife.

For the water in Noah’s day to then be a symbol of the baptism that saves us now means that the baptism that saves us now must be greater than water. The baptism that saves us now must then be something other than a water-based one and Peter says as much when he says “...NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh...”.

So then by what baptism are we saved today? First Corinthians 12:13 might provide a clue....

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#46 Apr 13, 2012
xxx wrote:
<quoted text>
That was my point. The water in Noah’s day cannot be a symbol of the water in water baptism because they are the same thing. No really, they are LITERALLY the same thing as the same water that existed in Noah’s day exists today. Water falls, and it evaporates and it falls again. The water cycle repeats itself as such so that the water we are drinking today was used in the past and will be used in the future long after we are gone.
Similarly, the wife’s wedding ring cannot be a symbol of the husband’s ring and the husband’s ring cannot be a symbol of the wife’s ring because they are in fact the same thing. For the rings to be a symbol, they must symbolize something greater, the actual marriage between the husband and wife.
For the water in Noah’s day to then be a symbol of the baptism that saves us now means that the baptism that saves us now must be greater than water. The baptism that saves us now must then be something other than a water-based one and Peter says as much when he says “...NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh...”.
So then by what baptism are we saved today? First Corinthians 12:13 might provide a clue....
Baptism saves: True of False

In what sense does it save? Peter makes it clear its not in the sense that it purifies the flesh. Its not some magical water that washes sins away. In fact, there is no meritorious power in the water at all. He obviously knew people would mistake his words for “baptismal regeneration.” After making it clear that he wasn’t teaching “baptismal regeneration”, he expounds on HOW baptism saves. He says, IT SAVES BY THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST. Far as Corinthians 12:13 goes, I totally agree. This parallels perfectly with God doing a work in Baptism ( Col. 2:11-12 ) and one being added to the Church ( Acts 2:38-41 ) The saving power is Gods work, not water. Nevertheless, water baptism is the place God performs an operation on the heart of man. He chose a Cross for Jesus ( a baptism Jesus had to undergo ) and he chose water for sinners ( a baptism sinners submit to for remission of sins ). God used the hands of men to nail Jesus to a cross and crucify Him. However, it was the plan of God and God at work. In water baptism, the hands of man are used BUT it is God at work. Peter brought up Noah, the Ark, the water saving 8 souls for a reason. It’s a picture of something GREATER. It’s a shadow of something much BIGGER.
xxx

Loudon, TN

#47 Apr 13, 2012
testing the spirits wrote:
<quoted text>
Baptism saves: True of False
True, but I contend it is the spiritual one from God than does this, not the one from men.

True or false: a symbol has to be greater than the reality or it is no symbol at all.

True or false: Peter specifically says that the WATER in Noah’s day was a symbol of the baptism that now saves us.

True or false: the water in Noah’s day cannot be a symbol of the water in water baptism because they are the same thing, water.

You brought up Colossians 2:11-12 to say that God does a work in baptism. Why then isn’t baptism in the OT? If it is contended that it would have been impossible to baptize someone into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus because these events had not yet transpired, then isn’t that saying that it is impossible for God to do something if indeed He is the one at work in baptism?
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#48 Apr 13, 2012
testing the spirits wrote:
<quoted text>
Baptism saves: True of False
In what sense does it save? Peter makes it clear its not in the sense that it purifies the flesh. Its not some magical water that washes sins away. In fact, there is no meritorious power in the water at all. He obviously knew people would mistake his words for “baptismal regeneration.” After making it clear that he wasn’t teaching “baptismal regeneration”, he expounds on HOW baptism saves. He says, IT SAVES BY THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST. Far as Corinthians 12:13 goes, I totally agree. This parallels perfectly with God doing a work in Baptism ( Col. 2:11-12 ) and one being added to the Church ( Acts 2:38-41 ) The saving power is Gods work, not water. Nevertheless, water baptism is the place God performs an operation on the heart of man. He chose a Cross for Jesus ( a baptism Jesus had to undergo ) and he chose water for sinners ( a baptism sinners submit to for remission of sins ). God used the hands of men to nail Jesus to a cross and crucify Him. However, it was the plan of God and God at work. In water baptism, the hands of man are used BUT it is God at work. Peter brought up Noah, the Ark, the water saving 8 souls for a reason. It’s a picture of something GREATER. It’s a shadow of something much BIGGER.
But Randy, the water did not save Noah. God did not send the flood (water) to save Noah. He directed Noah to build an ark-this is how God saved Noah. Water baptism is the symbol of our salvation because our salvation is based on a much higher principle. We are flesh and blood and it cannot enter into heaven without being changed. Our new birth is not a new physical birth it is a spiritual birth. John prophesied: John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire".

If you cannot accept this, the you have missed the fact that we must be born again not a second time of the flesh but of the Spirit. In the flesh we are like our father Adam, but in the spirit we are like our father (God). It all happens because of Jesus death burial and resurrection.

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Water baptism is the physical symbol of our salvation, something we mere humans can physically identify with. The work God does is in spiritual baptism not water baptism. That is why we see Cornelius receiving the spirit before water is applied.

Let us not worship the symbol but rather the reality...
Bfrank

Martinsville, VA

#49 Apr 13, 2012
Whitman wrote:
<quoted text>
James Oldfield preaches another gospel. He does not preach Christ. He does not preach as Paul preaches. James Oldfield preaches false gospel and false doctrine.
Agreed, James,Johnny,Micah,& Mark don't preach the gospel of Christ but rather...
"the gospel of baptism"
"the gospel of spying on churches"
"the gospel of my church is better than your church"
"the gospel of trash talk denominations"
"the gospel of glorifying Johnny's ego"
Like one lady who called in on Johnny's tv show mis-named,"What does the bible say"...she asked Johnny,"why don't you preach the gospel instead of bad mouthing everybody? Johnny's reply-"this is the gospel"..In Johnny's deluded mind he is preaching the gospel when he trash talks everyone outside his group.
Bfrank

Martinsville, VA

#50 Apr 13, 2012
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you" 1 Pet. 3:21
xxx, what now saves you according this passage?
What now saves you according to this passage?...
**because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Romans 10:9-10

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#52 Apr 13, 2012
NW above should be NT

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#53 Apr 13, 2012
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
But Randy, the water did not save Noah. God did not send the flood (water) to save Noah. He directed Noah to build an ark-this is how God saved Noah. Water baptism is the symbol of our salvation because our salvation is based on a much higher principle. We are flesh and blood and it cannot enter into heaven without being changed. Our new birth is not a new physical birth it is a spiritual birth. John prophesied: John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire".
If you cannot accept this, the you have missed the fact that we must be born again not a second time of the flesh but of the Spirit. In the flesh we are like our father Adam, but in the spirit we are like our father (God). It all happens because of Jesus death burial and resurrection.
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Water baptism is the physical symbol of our salvation, something we mere humans can physically identify with. The work God does is in spiritual baptism not water baptism. That is why we see Cornelius receiving the spirit before water is applied.
Let us not worship the symbol but rather the reality...
The same Peter said one must be baptized for remission of sins. Saul also followed this pattern by example and through his teachings. Slice and dice anyways you want, it still is true. And not once have I said WATER can save a sinner. God saves sinners. God used Baptism in Johns day. Was it from heaven or men? Jesus said baptism makes deciples. Peter says its for remission. Saul says God does a work in Baptism. Is baptism of heaven or men!!?? When you down play baptism to a mere symbol you are making God a liar. Nowhere is baptism ever called a mere symbol.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#54 Apr 16, 2012
xxx wrote:
<quoted text>
If she had not demanded it on her own, would you have taken the initiative and encouraged her to be re-baptized?
nope never do. It is a decision on their part not mine.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#55 Apr 16, 2012
Bfrank wrote:
<quoted text>
What now saves you according to this passage?...
**because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Romans 10:9-10
So which of those passages disqualifies the other?
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#56 Apr 16, 2012
testing the spirits wrote:
<quoted text>
The same Peter said one must be baptized for remission of sins. Saul also followed this pattern by example and through his teachings. Slice and dice anyways you want, it still is true. And not once have I said WATER can save a sinner. God saves sinners. God used Baptism in Johns day. Was it from heaven or men? Jesus said baptism makes deciples. Peter says its for remission. Saul says God does a work in Baptism. Is baptism of heaven or men!!?? When you down play baptism to a mere symbol you are making God a liar. Nowhere is baptism ever called a mere symbol.
Water baptism and communion are ordinances.

Do you see anything wrong with these verses?

John 3:16—"that whosoever believeth in Him and is baptized should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 6:47—"He that believeth on Me and is baptized hath everlasting life."

Acts 10:43—"that through His Name whosoever believeth in Him and is baptized shall receive remission (forgiveness) of sins."

Acts 16:31--"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized and thou shalt be saved."

1 Corinthians 1:21--"it pleased God ... to save them that believe and that are baptized."

What is the one thing the devil does not want people to do according to Luke?

believe

go to church

be water baptized

study your bible

The devil does not care one way or the other if you are water baptized.

Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#57 Apr 16, 2012
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Water baptism and communion are ordinances.
Do you see anything wrong with these verses?
John 3:16—"that whosoever believeth in Him and is baptized should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 6:47—"He that believeth on Me and is baptized hath everlasting life."
Acts 10:43—"that through His Name whosoever believeth in Him and is baptized shall receive remission (forgiveness) of sins."
Acts 16:31--"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized and thou shalt be saved."
1 Corinthians 1:21--"it pleased God ... to save them that believe and that are baptized."
What is the one thing the devil does not want people to do according to Luke?
believe
go to church
be water baptized
study your bible
The devil does not care one way or the other if you are water baptized.
Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
Those verses are perfect, seeing as we have SEVERAL of God's Apostles stating very blatantly and openly that baptism DOES save us. Good job Bobby! You're tying things together very nicely for the readers.

By the way, I hope you're not trying to be deceitful again like you were with Heath.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#58 Apr 16, 2012
SeekingWanderer wrote:
<quoted text>
Those verses are perfect, seeing as we have SEVERAL of God's Apostles stating very blatantly and openly that baptism DOES save us. Good job Bobby! You're tying things together very nicely for the readers.
By the way, I hope you're not trying to be deceitful again like you were with Heath.
“King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you do believe.” Then Agrippa said to Paul,“You almost persuade me to become a Christian.” And Paul said,“I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#59 Apr 16, 2012
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
“King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you do believe.” Then Agrippa said to Paul,“You almost persuade me to become a Christian.” And Paul said,“I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”
???
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#60 Apr 17, 2012
SeekingWanderer wrote:
<quoted text>
???
Paul tied things together for King Agrippa but it still was not enough to persuade him. Why???

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#61 Apr 17, 2012
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul tied things together for King Agrippa but it still was not enough to persuade him. Why???
According to your Calvinist theology God did not chose him.

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