Errors of Catholicism
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

New York, NY

#166 Jul 7, 2013
William wrote:
"Maybe you should search out all those pics of leaders from the Religion of Peace meeting Nazis in Germany."
I found some of them.
http://alamoministries.com/content/english/An...
Wherever there is a power grab you will find the Catholic church with their hand in it.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#167 Jul 7, 2013
William wrote:
"Maybe you should search out all those pics of leaders from the Religion of Peace meeting Nazis in Germany."
I found some of them.
http://alamoministries.com/content/english/An...
Wow! clean hands huh?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#168 Jul 7, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
And catholics all over the world hate blacks, jews and non catholic christians unless they convert? Are you sure you are speaking for the pope?
Have you seen "Schindler's List"?
Are you aware that a catholic bishop was excommunicated for his role in denying the holocaust? Where is all of that unity and oneness you brag about?
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/catholic/...
Give us clean hands oh Lord that we might not lift our souls to another. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =fT4Rt04In4wXX
70 years ago you wouldn't let a black person in your Church.

6 months ago a baptist preacher refused to marry a black couple in his church in my community. and the were going there.

Just 150 years ago Protestant preachers said it was not a sin to own black people which caused 600,000 Americans to die fighting over that.

Germany was a majority Protestant country and voted the Nazis in.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#169 Jul 7, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>Wherever there is a power grab you will find the Catholic church with their hand in it.
Like the Protestant government of the US taking the American Indian's land and killing thousands and thousands of them while doing it.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#170 Jul 7, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
I have never heard of low end churches before. Any other Protestants heard the term before Mark? I wonder if it is strictly Catholic mumbo jumbo.
Those are protestant terms. The high church protestants look down their noses at low church protestants.

Hilarious. They are all wrong and heretical.
William

Jefferson City, TN

#171 Jul 7, 2013
"Germany was a majority Protestant country and voted the Nazis in."

Led by this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_...

The Catholic church knew that Hitler and the Nazis would loot the Vatican of it's ample treasures, so they sucked up to them rather than confront them head on. That was left to the US, British, and Canadians.

So much for the so-called "church that Jesus built" taking a stand against a horrible godless tyranny.
William

Jefferson City, TN

#172 Jul 7, 2013
"Wherever there is a power grab you will find the Catholic church with their hand in it."

That is a stone cold fact of history.
William

Jefferson City, TN

#173 Jul 7, 2013
William

Jefferson City, TN

#174 Jul 7, 2013
At a 26 April meeting with Bishop Wilhelm Berning of Osnabrück, representative of the German Bishops Conference, Hitler declared:

“I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.”

The notes of the meeting do not record any response by Bishop Berning. In the opinion of Martin Rhonheimer, who cites the above transcript:

"This is hardly surprising: for a Catholic Bishop in 1933 there was really nothing terribly objectionable in this historically correct reminder."

Wow. Just Wow.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#175 Jul 7, 2013
Tony Alamo. This is the source of William, Sproul and Bobby's information. For me I will pay closer attention to Golda Meir and Albert Einstein who knew far more about the subject.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/13/tony...

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#176 Jul 7, 2013
Tony Alamo, darling boy of the low end prots!

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33909534/ns/us_news...
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#177 Jul 7, 2013
William wrote:
"Maybe you should search out all those pics of leaders from the Religion of Peace meeting Nazis in Germany."
I found some of them.
http://alamoministries.com/content/english/An...
Ignorance of history or you are intentionally misleading.

Look it up. 3 million Catholic Poles were murdered in the death camps.

The Catholics really supported the Nazis. Ignorant statement.

That would be the same as killing ever COC member in the world today.

That does not count the Catholics from other occupied countries. The only other group than the Jews they killed were JWs.

Interesting hardly any Protestants were killed in the holocaust. Protestants were not a threat to the Nazis. No leadership, no Authority. They voted the Nazis in.
William

Simpsonville, SC

#178 Jul 7, 2013
Did Tony Alamo take those photographs of Catholics and Nazis together? Maybe he sat in on the Concordat?

Enjoy the rest of your day.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

New York, NY

#179 Jul 7, 2013
Catholicism and the Nazi Takeover

Ironically—but, as we shall see, for obvious reasons—Chancellor Hitler had greater initial success reaching accommodation with Roman Catholic leaders than with the Protestants. The irony lay in the fact that the Catholic Zentrum (Center) Party had been principally responsible for denying majorities to the Nazis in early elections. Although Teutonic in outlook, German Catholics had close emotional ties to Rome. As a group they were somewhat less nationalistic than most Protestants. Catholics were correspondingly more likely than Protestants to view Hitler (incorrectly) as godless, or as a neo-heathen anti-Christian. Catholic clergy consistently denounced Nazism, though they often undercut themselves by preaching traditional anti-Semitism at the same time.

Even so, and despite Catholicism’s minority status, it would be German Catholics and the Roman Catholic Church that whose actions would at last put total power within the Nazis’ reach.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

New York, NY

#180 Jul 7, 2013
Signed on July 20, 1933, the Concordat was a fait accompli, the negotiations having been conducted largely in secret. Most German bishops gave their loyal, though impotent, approval to the pact that would strip away their power. A few bishops objected, criticizing the Nazi regime’s lack of morality (but never its lack of democracy).
The Concordat was a classic political kickback scheme. The church supported the new dictatorship by endorsing the end of democracy and free speech. In addition it bound its bishops to Hitler’s Reich by means of a loyalty oath. In exchange the church received enormous tax income and protection for church privileges. Religious instruction and prayer in school were reinstated. Criticism of the church was forbidden. Of course, nothing in the Concordat protected the rights of non-Catholics.
If Catholic officials were disappointed with the Concordat’s terms, they did not show it, sending messages of congratulation to the dictator. In Rome, a celebratory mass followed the treaty’s signing by Papen and the future Pius XII amid great pomp and circumstance. In Germany, the church and the Berlin government held a joint service of thanksgiving that featured a mix of Catholic, Reich, and swastika banners and flags. The musical program mixed hymns with a rousing performance of the repugnant Nazi anthem “Horst Wessel”—which was set, by the way, to the traditional hymn “How Great Thou Art.” All of this was projected by loudspeaker to the enthusiastic crowd outside; as most German Catholics welcomed the Concordat, the thanksgiving service drew far more than Berlin’s cathedral could hold.
Scholder comments that “anyone who saw things from the Roman perspective could come to the conclusion that ... the treaty was ... an indescribable success for Catholicism. Even a year before, the Holy See had only been able to dream of the concessions which the concordat contained.... On the Catholic side the concordat was accordingly described as ‘something very great,’ indeed as nothing short of a ‘masterpiece.’”33 Catholic response was so exuberant that Hitler felt it necessary to defend himself to Protestant clerics and Nazi radicals who viewed this sudden amity with Rome as a betrayal.
The practical results of the collaboration were clear enough. Most Catholics “soon adjusted to the dictatorship”34; indeed they flocked to the Party. Post-Concordat voting patterns suggest that Catholics, on average, even outdid Protestants in supporting the regime, further undermining any efforts by the clergy to challenge Nazi policies. In any case much of the Catholic clergy was Nazifying. Even the idiosyncratic S.S. welcomed Catholics, who would ultimately compose a quarter of its membership.
The Concordat’s disastrous consequences cannot be exaggerated. It bound all devout German Catholics to the state—the clergy through an oath and income, the laity through the authority of the church. If at any time the regime chose not to honor the agreement, Catholics had no open legal right to oppose it or its policies. Opponents of Nazism, Catholic and non-Catholic, were further discouraged and marginalized because the church had shown such want of moral fiber and consistency.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

New York, NY

#181 Jul 7, 2013
Apologists have insisted that the church had no choice but to accept the Concordat for the modest protections it provided. But those provisions were never needed. Major Protestant denominations suffered no more than Catholicism, though the Protestant churches lacked protective agreements and had snubbed Hitler’s early attempt to unite them. Apologists make much of Vatican “resistance” to Nazism, but the net effect of Vatican policy toward Hitler was collaborative.
Indeed, the 1933 Concordat stands as one of the most unethical, corrupt, duplicitous, and dangerous agreements ever forged between two authoritarian powers. Perhaps the Catholic strategy was to outlast the Nazi’s frankly popular tyranny rather than try to bring it down. But the Catholic Church made no attempt to revoke the Concordat and its loyalty clause during the Nazi regime. Indeed, the 1933 Concordat is the only diplomatic accord negotiated with the Nazi regime that remains in force anywhere in the world.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

New York, NY

#182 Jul 7, 2013
This should be in front of my previous post.

Signed on July 20, 1933, the Concordat was a fait accompli, the negotiations having been conducted largely in secret. Most German bishops gave their loyal, though impotent, approval to the pact that would strip away their power. A few bishops objected, criticizing the Nazi regime’s lack of morality (but never its lack of democracy).
The Concordat was a classic political kickback scheme. The church supported the new dictatorship by endorsing the end of democracy and free speech. In addition it bound its bishops to Hitler’s Reich by means of a loyalty oath. In exchange the church received enormous tax income and protection for church privileges. Religious instruction and prayer in school were reinstated. Criticism of the church was forbidden. Of course, nothing in the Concordat protected the rights of non-Catholics.
If Catholic officials were disappointed with the Concordat’s terms, they did not show it, sending messages of congratulation to the dictator. In Rome, a celebratory mass followed the treaty’s signing by Papen and the future Pius XII amid great pomp and circumstance. In Germany, the church and the Berlin government held a joint service of thanksgiving that featured a mix of Catholic, Reich, and swastika banners and flags. The musical program mixed hymns with a rousing performance of the repugnant Nazi anthem “Horst Wessel”—which was set, by the way, to the traditional hymn “How Great Thou Art.” All of this was projected by loudspeaker to the enthusiastic crowd outside; as most German Catholics welcomed the Concordat, the thanksgiving service drew far more than Berlin’s cathedral could hold.
Scholder comments that “anyone who saw things from the Roman perspective could come to the conclusion that ... the treaty was ... an indescribable success for Catholicism. Even a year before, the Holy See had only been able to dream of the concessions which the concordat contained.... On the Catholic side the concordat was accordingly described as ‘something very great,’ indeed as nothing short of a ‘masterpiece.’”33 Catholic response was so exuberant that Hitler felt it necessary to defend himself to Protestant clerics and Nazi radicals who viewed this sudden amity with Rome as a betrayal.
The practical results of the collaboration were clear enough. Most Catholics “soon adjusted to the dictatorship”34; indeed they flocked to the Party. Post-Concordat voting patterns suggest that Catholics, on average, even outdid Protestants in supporting the regime, further undermining any efforts by the clergy to challenge Nazi policies. In any case much of the Catholic clergy was Nazifying. Even the idiosyncratic S.S. welcomed Catholics, who would ultimately compose a quarter of its membership.
The Concordat’s disastrous consequences cannot be exaggerated. It bound all devout German Catholics to the state—the clergy through an oath and income, the laity through the authority of the church. If at any time the regime chose not to honor the agreement, Catholics had no open legal right to oppose it or its policies. Opponents of Nazism, Catholic and non-Catholic, were further discouraged and marginalized because the church had shown such want of moral fiber and consistency.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

New York, NY

#183 Jul 7, 2013
William wrote:
Did Tony Alamo take those photographs of Catholics and Nazis together? Maybe he sat in on the Concordat?
Enjoy the rest of your day.
yes, I hope they have a nice, great, old, big, catholic day.
William

Simpsonville, SC

#184 Jul 7, 2013
And the Vatican escaped looting by the SS as a result. Funny how every other museum and repository of artwork in conquered countries got their material stolen by the Nazis, isn't it? But not the priceless artworks of the Vatican (or its bank).

Never mind the personal collections of Jewish people stolen by Nazi conservators. The Vatican probably got a cut of that action, just out of historic spite.
William

Simpsonville, SC

#185 Jul 7, 2013
Mike and Mark probably just missed these little parts of Catholic history during their conversion classes. Spent more time on James chapter 2, probably.

By their (art) works, ye shall know them?

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