Dave P

Morehead, KY

#21 May 6, 2013
suprised Dave didnt jump on how you used that text as he did another here?

Already done it once. 2 or 3 gathered together is not simply about the assembly. It's about church discipline. You already know this.

*the gathering of the Called out the church is not what is happening here and to go off then with wolves in sheeps clothing is also not relevant here. To throw out those statement is really misleading to those whom are not christians. This is simply talking about thoughts that each of us have and not church.

Agree. This is not the called out assembly. We are not "in church"-but that thought presents its own problems.

Bobby-I hope some day you will have more freedom to accept other believers. Look at this way, what do we have to gain by condemning others who are not exactly the same as we are. We have nothing to lose by trying to be inclusive. There will always be wolves getting in the sheep pen or foxes in the hen house. Heck, there might be some in your church and my church.

This however is valid. Bobby is correct-every congregation, yours and mine included JC, has both wheat and tares in it, or have in the past or will in the future. And I would imagine that some in both our congregations deny fellow believers because of instrumental music. Most of the Christian churches I know have the same theology as you and I, except for instrumental music. Yet, in your own previous words, that is a salvation issue. Looking back at older threads, Heath has stated that ANY doctrinal error condemns one to hell.

Are you a one cupper or multi-cupper? If you're a multi, there are believers out there that condemn you.
xxx

Nashville, TN

#22 May 6, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Today, we have this concept that CHURCH is somewhere “we go”- a place we meet to “worship God” as if rest of the week we do not “worship God”. The CHURCH has become “a building” rather than saved sinners “called out” to server one another in love.
When the early church assembled in homes, they were FAMILY oriented, came as they were, not diked up in a three piece suit or their “Sunday best.” I’m not saying its wrong to dress-up BUUTT many sinners are intimidated by this. I have heard people say they didn’t have anything to wear to “church”, meaning they only had blue jeans and such but not the “formal attire” most Christians wear when they “go to Church”. This alone makes them feel LESS and out of place. Home churching eliminates the need to dress to impress or whatever reason we dress in three piece suits when we “go to Church.” As long as one is dressed modestly, the suits and such are not needed. I seriously doubt that the early church diked up for the Sunday “worship service.” They came together, ate together, sang “Psalms”, partook in Communion together as one family unto God IN HOMES. There wasn’t men dressed up in suits passing out Welches and wafers. There wasn’t song leaders. There was no pews for the “worshipers” to sit and look toward a stage where one man ran the show. There was no invitation song.
I’m not necessarily saying these things are wrong but they do seemed to have robbed the meaning of “church” and it does hinder the work of God. Sinners should feel welcomed not come to a place where everyone is suited up like they are attending a business meeting or something. The more I look at HOME CHURCHING, the more it seems the best choice. Any religious movement that places undue stress on the place of meeting rather than the assembly itself is flawed in my opinion. Telling people they MUST attend a Church building, that in order to have a church, you must have a nice, traditional church building, one owned by the church in which to assemble, is dead wrong.
Jesus told the woman of Samaria that the place of worship was not the important thing, either the "maintain" (Gerizim) as in the case of the Samaritans or in Jerusalem (Jews). What mattered, Jesus said, is that God be worshiped in spirit and in truth, this is the emphasis of the gospel (John 4: 21-24) Again, I’m not condemning Church Buildings- just seems the Church Building has robbed the true sense of the assembly of the Saints.
Unless you are the one actually hosting the home church, when you attend one of these meeetings you are in fact still "going to church".

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#23 May 6, 2013
xxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you are the one actually hosting the home church, when you attend one of these meeetings you are in fact still "going to church".
Wrong. Church is NOT a location. Church is the called out ones of Christ who can meet anywhere.

I notice youre from my parents home town. I just came from Norton last week.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#24 May 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
suprised Dave didnt jump on how you used that text as he did another here?
Already done it once. 2 or 3 gathered together is not simply about the assembly. It's about church discipline. You already know this.
*the gathering of the Called out the church is not what is happening here and to go off then with wolves in sheeps clothing is also not relevant here. To throw out those statement is really misleading to those whom are not christians. This is simply talking about thoughts that each of us have and not church.
Agree. This is not the called out assembly. We are not "in church"-but that thought presents its own problems.
Bobby-I hope some day you will have more freedom to accept other believers. Look at this way, what do we have to gain by condemning others who are not exactly the same as we are. We have nothing to lose by trying to be inclusive. There will always be wolves getting in the sheep pen or foxes in the hen house. Heck, there might be some in your church and my church.
This however is valid. Bobby is correct-every congregation, yours and mine included JC, has both wheat and tares in it, or have in the past or will in the future. And I would imagine that some in both our congregations deny fellow believers because of instrumental music. Most of the Christian churches I know have the same theology as you and I, except for instrumental music. Yet, in your own previous words, that is a salvation issue. Looking back at older threads, Heath has stated that ANY doctrinal error condemns one to hell.
Are you a one cupper or multi-cupper? If you're a multi, there are believers out there that condemn you.
Do you agree doctrinal error leads on to hell?

I have been both one cup and multicup depending on the situation.

Error in worship is a salvation issue unless that was changed during the recent times.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#25 May 6, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you agree doctrinal error leads on to hell?
I have been both one cup and multicup depending on the situation.
Error in worship is a salvation issue unless that was changed during the recent times.
Do I agree doctrinal error leads to hell? Depends what it's about. Misunderstanding some passage of scripture, as in the spirits in prison passage in Peter? No. Denying the deity of Christ? Yes.

If you've been in both one cup and multicup, then at some point you've been among those who feel you are in error in worship, and are in danger of hell for your error. Are you condemned for your doctrinal error? Or are those who think you were in error in fact condemned themselves?
xxx

Nashville, TN

#26 May 6, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. Church is NOT a location. Church is the called out ones of Christ who can meet anywhere.
I notice youre from my parents home town. I just came from Norton last week.
I never said it was. Church is not constrained to a location, but if I were to attend a home church in someone else's house I would still be "going to church".

I'm not from Norton. Topix just decided to put that as my location.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#27 May 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I agree doctrinal error leads to hell? Depends what it's about. Misunderstanding some passage of scripture, as in the spirits in prison passage in Peter? No. Denying the deity of Christ? Yes.
If you've been in both one cup and multicup, then at some point you've been among those who feel you are in error in worship, and are in danger of hell for your error. Are you condemned for your doctrinal error? Or are those who think you were in error in fact condemned themselves?
Which error on the cup should I worry about? Now remember Ive done both, didnt say what I think of it.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#28 May 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I agree doctrinal error leads to hell? Depends what it's about. Misunderstanding some passage of scripture, as in the spirits in prison passage in Peter? No. Denying the deity of Christ? Yes.
If you've been in both one cup and multicup, then at some point you've been among those who feel you are in error in worship, and are in danger of hell for your error. Are you condemned for your doctrinal error? Or are those who think you were in error in fact condemned themselves?
So if a person says the passage about the spirits in prison teaches that there will be a second chance for salvation after death that is not a doctrine error that is a salvation issue???

Was that a good example for you?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#29 May 6, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
So if a person says the passage about the spirits in prison teaches that there will be a second chance for salvation after death that is not a doctrine error that is a salvation issue???
Was that a good example for you?
Most debate whether or not this occurred during the 3 days Christ was dead or whether in the days of Noah. That was my meaning. How about that? Can we be wrong on that and be condemned for that?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#30 May 6, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Which error on the cup should I worry about? Now remember Ive done both, didnt say what I think of it.
You decide. Someone out there thinks you're in error and condemned either way. The same has been said for me-I preach and practice non-instrumental but don't believe that way. Which error should any of us worry about.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#31 May 6, 2013
xxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it was. Church is not constrained to a location, but if I were to attend a home church in someone else's house I would still be "going to church".
I'm not from Norton. Topix just decided to put that as my location.
Yes, even if we held our meeting out under my pecan tree it would still be going to church. The point of the words "going to church" means that some must travel to get there. I think it is hard not to go to church unless the church comes to us. Let us not make to much of that, church buildings are just as good as homes.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#32 May 6, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you agree doctrinal error leads on to hell?
I have been both one cup and multicup depending on the situation.
Error in worship is a salvation issue unless that was changed during the recent times.
Perhaps indwelling of the Holy Spirit or marriage-divorce would be better doctrinal error discussions. Wayne Jackson and JR disagree on indwelling. Right here Mike Conner and Mark disagreed on MDR on the other thread. Perhaps those are good issues to discuss doctrinal error and loss of salvation.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#33 May 7, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps indwelling of the Holy Spirit or marriage-divorce would be better doctrinal error discussions. Wayne Jackson and JR disagree on indwelling. Right here Mike Conner and Mark disagreed on MDR on the other thread. Perhaps those are good issues to discuss doctrinal error and loss of salvation.
With the type of arguments your putting forth all thoughts on any doctrinal teachings are ok. With that thought you have no right to say one thought is correct over another and all thoughts are ok. Give me a break. Next Step> All will be saved.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#34 May 7, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
With the type of arguments your putting forth all thoughts on any doctrinal teachings are ok. With that thought you have no right to say one thought is correct over another and all thoughts are ok. Give me a break. Next Step> All will be saved.
Admittedly, this is the problem I keep running into. This was my point last week. If we allow “some” error, it seems to lead to Universalism. However, maybe there is more to this. After all, almost everyone holds some error of some sorts.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#35 May 7, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
With the type of arguments your putting forth all thoughts on any doctrinal teachings are ok. With that thought you have no right to say one thought is correct over another and all thoughts are ok. Give me a break. Next Step> All will be saved.
Maybe you should give others a break. You say I'm trying to allow all to be saved, with your arguments only the "perfectly correct" people are saved-and just who is "perfectly correct". Do you have all knowledge? Do I? We are both wrong about some things I am sure. Now, which error condemns us. Differences of opinion on some things are ok. Romans 14 is a good example of that.

In the Scriptures who are disfellowshipped? It was those actively in sin. It was those in heretical views. It was those who went back into the world. That's where the early Christians drew the line. We draw it a lot smaller than they did.

You say my view=all saved, I say your view=all lost. Truth-what WE say doesn't matter, we don't make the call.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#36 May 7, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Admittedly, this is the problem I keep running into. This was my point last week. If we allow “some” error, it seems to lead to Universalism. However, maybe there is more to this. After all, almost everyone holds some error of some sorts.
Yes, we all struggle with this. I am a values voter, which means I love and respect the values of God. Universalism is not Christianity.

I know a family who were once church of Christ. The son accepted the gay lifestyle and later became a lawyer, defending gay rights. Mom wanted desperately to keep her son in the family and slowly began to accept his lifestyle. Today they are in the Unitarian church. She posted on twitter the other day how much she enjoyed her morning in church. They accept Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheist-everyone.

The Unitarian church is not a church in the same sense we view church. Personally I view them as lost and without God. Why, you night ask. It is because they do not believe that Jesus is Lord (he was just a good man)and do not believe in life after death. They are nothing more that a civic club, patting each other on the back because they deem each other as good people even without the values of God.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#37 May 7, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Admittedly, this is the problem I keep running into. This was my point last week. If we allow “some” error, it seems to lead to Universalism. However, maybe there is more to this. After all, almost everyone holds some error of some sorts.
Is doctrinal error unrepentant sin? A simple misunderstanding? Does the motive of such doctrines matter? Perhaps the logical outcomes of having a doctrine should be explored before declaring doctrinal error to be a sin or not.

Some obviously are- the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, the teachings of Jezebel, etc. But were the Roman and Corinthian believers condemned for their different views on food, idols temples, etc? How about the ones from the Pharisees in Acts 15 that taught circumcision was necessary? Are all those who quote "where two or three are gathered together" in error condemned for that?

Universalism is false. As is the thought that imperfect people will come to 100% agreement on all doctrinal matters. We draw the line where God does. Without faith we can't please God, we cannot live in willful unrepentant sin. Being divisive is wrong. Having beliefs that destroy the faith of others is another idea. Any thoughts?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#38 May 7, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we all struggle with this. I am a values voter, which means I love and respect the values of God. Universalism is not Christianity.
I know a family who were once church of Christ. The son accepted the gay lifestyle and later became a lawyer, defending gay rights. Mom wanted desperately to keep her son in the family and slowly began to accept his lifestyle. Today they are in the Unitarian church. She posted on twitter the other day how much she enjoyed her morning in church. They accept Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheist-everyone.
The Unitarian church is not a church in the same sense we view church. Personally I view them as lost and without God. Why, you night ask. It is because they do not believe that Jesus is Lord (he was just a good man)and do not believe in life after death. They are nothing more that a civic club, patting each other on the back because they deem each other as good people even without the values of God.
I would agree with you. These seem to have no sense of a need for the redeeming work of Christ. Everyone is ok, no matter what we do or believe. This is a different gospel from the one found in the Scriptures. This is another of the lines that God draws and we must as well. I don't believe that every doctrine that I disagree with is a "different gospel" that really isn't one.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#39 May 7, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you should give others a break. You say I'm trying to allow all to be saved, with your arguments only the "perfectly correct" people are saved-and just who is "perfectly correct". Do you have all knowledge? Do I? We are both wrong about some things I am sure. Now, which error condemns us. Differences of opinion on some things are ok. Romans 14 is a good example of that.
In the Scriptures who are disfellowshipped? It was those actively in sin. It was those in heretical views. It was those who went back into the world. That's where the early Christians drew the line. We draw it a lot smaller than they did.
You say my view=all saved, I say your view=all lost. Truth-what WE say doesn't matter, we don't make the call.
I challenged your thinking on the direction your thoughts were leading and you response with, " I SAY YOUR VIEW= ALL LOST. Tactics used when challenged as I have seen here before. I believe there is truth that is the word of God. I never said Perfectly correct now did I. I also never said You or I make the call. We however are called to proclaim the truth and rightly divide the word.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#40 May 7, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I challenged your thinking on the direction your thoughts were leading and you response with, " I SAY YOUR VIEW= ALL LOST. Tactics used when challenged as I have seen here before. I believe there is truth that is the word of God. I never said Perfectly correct now did I. I also never said You or I make the call. We however are called to proclaim the truth and rightly divide the word.
No, sir, you didn't challenge my direction of my thoughts, you told me where they were going. I simply responded in kind. Perhaps I simply thought that's where your thoughts are headed.

You didn't say "You or I don't make the call"-I did, and I stand by that. Not one of us here on this earth makes the final decision about the salvation of others, what doctrines condemn, etc. Sometimes we all needed reminded of this.

My thoughts and beliefs have been challenged many times. I do not mind that. Would like to see others defend their beliefs or explain them instead of constantly asking the others questions.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Martinsville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Catholics (Feb '14) 9 hr Barnsweb 1,140
VA VA Property Tax Exemption for Elderly and Disab... (Oct '10) 19 hr gwsbadass 1,360
How can i get a copy of my background check? (Nov '13) Mon Louis Hawkins 3
Are there any free people finder/background che... (Oct '13) Mon Asiagirl 3
Indictments issued Sep 26 shannonsmith 1
Why are ... Sep 25 satoshi 1
Sola fide? Sep 24 William 77

Martinsville Jobs

Martinsville People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Martinsville News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Martinsville

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]