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Since: Jul 11

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#1 May 3, 2013
Today, we have this concept that CHURCH is somewhere “we go”- a place we meet to “worship God” as if rest of the week we do not “worship God”. The CHURCH has become “a building” rather than saved sinners “called out” to server one another in love.

When the early church assembled in homes, they were FAMILY oriented, came as they were, not diked up in a three piece suit or their “Sunday best.” I’m not saying its wrong to dress-up BUUTT many sinners are intimidated by this. I have heard people say they didn’t have anything to wear to “church”, meaning they only had blue jeans and such but not the “formal attire” most Christians wear when they “go to Church”. This alone makes them feel LESS and out of place. Home churching eliminates the need to dress to impress or whatever reason we dress in three piece suits when we “go to Church.” As long as one is dressed modestly, the suits and such are not needed. I seriously doubt that the early church diked up for the Sunday “worship service.” They came together, ate together, sang “Psalms”, partook in Communion together as one family unto God IN HOMES. There wasn’t men dressed up in suits passing out Welches and wafers. There wasn’t song leaders. There was no pews for the “worshipers” to sit and look toward a stage where one man ran the show. There was no invitation song.

I’m not necessarily saying these things are wrong but they do seemed to have robbed the meaning of “church” and it does hinder the work of God. Sinners should feel welcomed not come to a place where everyone is suited up like they are attending a business meeting or something. The more I look at HOME CHURCHING, the more it seems the best choice. Any religious movement that places undue stress on the place of meeting rather than the assembly itself is flawed in my opinion. Telling people they MUST attend a Church building, that in order to have a church, you must have a nice, traditional church building, one owned by the church in which to assemble, is dead wrong.

Jesus told the woman of Samaria that the place of worship was not the important thing, either the "maintain" (Gerizim) as in the case of the Samaritans or in Jerusalem (Jews). What mattered, Jesus said, is that God be worshiped in spirit and in truth, this is the emphasis of the gospel (John 4: 21-24) Again, I’m not condemning Church Buildings- just seems the Church Building has robbed the true sense of the assembly of the Saints.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#2 May 3, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Today, we have this concept that CHURCH is somewhere “we go”- a place we meet to “worship God” as if rest of the week we do not “worship God”. The CHURCH has become “a building” rather than saved sinners “called out” to server one another in love.
When the early church assembled in homes, they were FAMILY oriented, came as they were, not diked up in a three piece suit or their “Sunday best.” I’m not saying its wrong to dress-up BUUTT many sinners are intimidated by this. I have heard people say they didn’t have anything to wear to “church”, meaning they only had blue jeans and such but not the “formal attire” most Christians wear when they “go to Church”. This alone makes them feel LESS and out of place. Home churching eliminates the need to dress to impress or whatever reason we dress in three piece suits when we “go to Church.” As long as one is dressed modestly, the suits and such are not needed. I seriously doubt that the early church diked up for the Sunday “worship service.” They came together, ate together, sang “Psalms”, partook in Communion together as one family unto God IN HOMES. There wasn’t men dressed up in suits passing out Welches and wafers. There wasn’t song leaders. There was no pews for the “worshipers” to sit and look toward a stage where one man ran the show. There was no invitation song.
I’m not necessarily saying these things are wrong but they do seemed to have robbed the meaning of “church” and it does hinder the work of God. Sinners should feel welcomed not come to a place where everyone is suited up like they are attending a business meeting or something. The more I look at HOME CHURCHING, the more it seems the best choice. Any religious movement that places undue stress on the place of meeting rather than the assembly itself is flawed in my opinion. Telling people they MUST attend a Church building, that in order to have a church, you must have a nice, traditional church building, one owned by the church in which to assemble, is dead wrong.
Jesus told the woman of Samaria that the place of worship was not the important thing, either the "maintain" (Gerizim) as in the case of the Samaritans or in Jerusalem (Jews). What mattered, Jesus said, is that God be worshiped in spirit and in truth, this is the emphasis of the gospel (John 4: 21-24) Again, I’m not condemning Church Buildings- just seems the Church Building has robbed the true sense of the assembly of the Saints.
It has been many years since I wore a suit to church, in fact I wear jeans most of the time and so does most every man in our church-jeans or Khaki.

In our church we have the best of both worlds. We have a large church with many small groups inside of it. We meet regularly in our homes.

Randy Frazee and max Lucado (former coc) have a very large church which has 5 campuses connected by satellite where the preacher is located in one building preaching to all of them. Then they also have small home groups.

I don't think we should have to be disconnected from the the church at large to have that home church atmosphere. The only thing I find troublesome in a small home church is that they often get disconnected from the larger picture.

Did you know that some home churches have annual meetings with other home churches in a common area. They often travel long distances to conduct those meetings with people they may have never met.

Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#3 May 3, 2013
Randy, have you considered that we are having church right here on these threads. The problem we have is that we say things to each other we would not say if we were face to face. While in the coc I never rocked the boat. Today I am thinking our boats need to be rocked once in a while.

I like the way our discussions have moderated and the directions we are going. Thanks for your input!
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#4 May 3, 2013
I agree with everything both of you have said.

We do need our boats rocked now and again, mine has been quite a bit. I do like where the discussions are going now as well. We don't spend all of our time debating whether or not baptism is necessary or essential, or the LS, or other issues that others have debated to no avail.

Getting to the heart of matters-the "heart" part-that's the key, and myself I think we need to keep going this way.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#5 May 3, 2013
Every heard of this one. My step-mother died recently and all the years I knew her, I thought she was a fallen away JW.

She didn't believe in celebrating Christmas. But she was a drinker, smoker and all that. When she got sick, she got religion again and I found out that she was associated with a religion known as Two by Two.

Part of their doctrine was mandatory house worship. Church buildings were a no-no.

I think another name was Cooneyites or something like that
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#6 May 3, 2013
Never heard of that one.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#7 May 3, 2013
The current congregation I serve has allowed me to forget about wearing a suit jacket to preach in. I am thankful-I get hot! So I just wear a shirt and tie, roll up my sleeves, and go to it.

One of my mentors absolutely would not allow anyone to preach or teach for him without the "uniform". Mike, being catholic, sees people in uniform every time they assemble. Yes, I think we miss the point when it comes to "church uniforms". We are only told to dress modestly. Khakis, blue jeans, slacks, dresses-as long as they are modest and don't show too much skin I don't have an issue and I don't believe God does either. And some reverence-an assembly isn't the place for a Budweiser t-shirt either.

Again, I think the clothing also comes down to a heart issue. I personally dislike dressing up like attending a business meeting because that's not who I am. I do want to "clean up" and be respectable for the Lord, but I'm not putting on a show either.

The holiness movement is large here, and there are many long haired, denim skirt wearing, no makeup wearing women here. Personally, it reminds me of the Pharisees-making an outward show to let all know how "holy" you are compared to others. The Amish here give off the same vibe.

The first century Christians were probably dirty, dusty, smelly, and plain looking coming from Sunday work going to the assembly. And we are worried about the outward appearance of our brethren and ourselves. Lord, help us.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#8 May 4, 2013
Dave P wrote:
The current congregation I serve has allowed me to forget about wearing a suit jacket to preach in. I am thankful-I get hot! So I just wear a shirt and tie, roll up my sleeves, and go to it.
One of my mentors absolutely would not allow anyone to preach or teach for him without the "uniform". Mike, being catholic, sees people in uniform every time they assemble. Yes, I think we miss the point when it comes to "church uniforms". We are only told to dress modestly. Khakis, blue jeans, slacks, dresses-as long as they are modest and don't show too much skin I don't have an issue and I don't believe God does either. And some reverence-an assembly isn't the place for a Budweiser t-shirt either.
Again, I think the clothing also comes down to a heart issue. I personally dislike dressing up like attending a business meeting because that's not who I am. I do want to "clean up" and be respectable for the Lord, but I'm not putting on a show either.
The holiness movement is large here, and there are many long haired, denim skirt wearing, no makeup wearing women here. Personally, it reminds me of the Pharisees-making an outward show to let all know how "holy" you are compared to others. The Amish here give off the same vibe.
The first century Christians were probably dirty, dusty, smelly, and plain looking coming from Sunday work going to the assembly. And we are worried about the outward appearance of our brethren and ourselves. Lord, help us.
I believe that some people who come to mass are just lazy and don't respect the idea of coming to worship the Lord. I have never worn a suit to Church but I dress with a nice shirt and long pants.

I go to a small Country church and see many in there normal attire of jeans, overalls, and boots.

As for as Priest, these are part of the tradition of the Church with a liter t.

Vestments are a sacramental. That means they are set apart and blessed by the Church to excite good thoughts and to increase devotion in those who see and those who use them. They are the uniform of the priest when he is “on duty,” while he is exercising the functions of his ministry and using the sacred powers which he received at his ordination. The clothing that is worn by the priest while he is not “on duty,” it is not called vestments. The Mass vestments were originally ordinary garments of the ancient Roman world. While the fashions of dressing have changed with the passing centuries, the priest continued to wear at the altar the ancient Roman costume of his predecessorss.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#9 May 5, 2013
Only if sheep forsake the fold are they at the mercy of a prowling lion.

Norman Hillyer
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#10 May 5, 2013
I pet 5:5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

This is the basis for our sermon today. "how to have great church families and by extension also in our homes".

Enjoy this Lord's day...
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#11 May 5, 2013
Bobby wrote:
I pet 5:5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
This is the basis for our sermon today. "how to have great church families and by extension also in our homes".
Enjoy this Lord's day...
The church must be a family, because as long as its a collection of strangers who gather once a week it's not really the family of God. We need to be personally invested in people.

The above post is right too. When the sheep leaves the safety of the flock and shepherd, the lion gets closer and hungrier.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#12 May 5, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
The church must be a family, because as long as its a collection of strangers who gather once a week it's not really the family of God. We need to be personally invested in people.
The above post is right too. When the sheep leaves the safety of the flock and shepherd, the lion gets closer and hungrier.
I agree totally with this post. The Shepherd especially has to 100% committed to the flock.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#13 May 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree totally with this post. The Shepherd especially has to 100% committed to the flock.
I would say we probably have a difference of opinion about the shepherd.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#14 May 5, 2013
I would wonder why the pope allows his catholic priest's to continue commit such vile sin as homosexual acts on alter boys. Can you explain that Mike:
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#15 May 5, 2013
I bet Peter, Paul nor any of the apostles would not have approved of that conduct in the early churches.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#16 May 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Randy, have you considered that we are having church right here on these threads. The problem we have is that we say things to each other we would not say if we were face to face. While in the coc I never rocked the boat. Today I am thinking our boats need to be rocked once in a while.
I like the way our discussions have moderated and the directions we are going. Thanks for your input!
This is not "church" as you on these threads any more then it was church when Paul was having discussions with non believers.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#17 May 6, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>This is not "church" as you on these threads any more then it was church when Paul was having discussions with non believers.
Jc, granted there are probably people who read these threads who are not christians but at least they are hearing the word.

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." It does not say that we must be in complete agreement on every issue.

I hope some day you will have more freedom to accept other believers. Look at this way, what do we have to gain by condemning others who are not exactly the same as we are. We have nothing to lose by trying to be inclusive. There will always be wolves getting in the sheep pen or foxes in the hen house. Heck, there might be some in your church and my church.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#18 May 6, 2013
The parable of wheat and tares comes immediately to mind.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19 May 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Jc, granted there are probably people who read these threads who are not christians but at least they are hearing the word.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." It does not say that we must be in complete agreement on every issue.
I hope some day you will have more freedom to accept other believers. Look at this way, what do we have to gain by condemning others who are not exactly the same as we are. We have nothing to lose by trying to be inclusive. There will always be wolves getting in the sheep pen or foxes in the hen house. Heck, there might be some in your church and my church.
suprised Dave didnt jump on how you used that text as he did another here?

the gathering of the Called out the church is not what is happening here and to go off then with wolves in sheeps clothing is also not relevant here. To throw out those statement is really misleading to those whom are not christians. This is simply talking about thoughts that each of us have and not church.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#20 May 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree totally with this post. The Shepherd especially has to 100% committed to the flock.
The Chief Shepherd (Christ) is totally committed the sheep are not always committed, and can wander off.

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