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Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#1 Jul 9, 2013
This is commonly taught in Churches I've attended - from Protestants to Church of Christ. Can't say what the RCC believe on the matter, but I'd like to know what they believe on this important topic.

In the opening chapters of Matthew we can see that Jesus (Y'shua) certainly taught that the Scriptures - the word of God - and the Law and Testimony of the Prophets and Psalms were such that they must be fulfilled and are as extant as the heavens and earth.

The only writing nailed to the cross had to do with His claim to be 'King of the Jews.'

So what do you think? And is what you think really in accord with the teachings of Jesus Christ?

Is it possible that Jerome put some things in the Bible that shouldn't have been there?

Justify the saying that the 'Law was nailed to the cross,' or justify why you think it wasn't - but it must be according to the Scriptures.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#2 Jul 9, 2013
'If they speak not according to the Law and the Testimony, there is no light in them.' True or false or done away with at the cross?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#3 Jul 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
'If they speak not according to the Law and the Testimony, there is no light in them.' True or false or done away with at the cross?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#4 Jul 9, 2013
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]

18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#5 Jul 9, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Yes, a better hope, for better reason - no doubt on that matter. The passage you quoted - is that from Hebrews? Hebrews shows the need for a change of the priesthood, and that the ordinances of the priesthood changed of necessity, but the ordinances of the Arronic and Levitical priesthoods is not the very commandments of God. The former priesthood ordinances had to do with administration of the sacrifices for sin under the old animal sacrificial system. Yes that has changed. But that isn't a change of any standard that God has given of what is good or what is evil.

If the Commandments are extant today, we need to pay attention to them if we hope to please God. And how could the writer of Hebrews say the good news was preached to those formerly, and then in the days of the early Church they were again preached...

Is Hebrews correct when it lays out this principle?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#6 Jul 9, 2013
Jesus said the Psalms are true. Have you read 89:24 lately?

"My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips."
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#7 Jul 9, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Not interested in merely reading posted links....sorry.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8 Jul 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Jesus said the Psalms are true. Have you read 89:24 lately?
"My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips."
who could break a covenant according to the book?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9 Jul 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, a better hope, for better reason - no doubt on that matter. The passage you quoted - is that from Hebrews? Hebrews shows the need for a change of the priesthood, and that the ordinances of the priesthood changed of necessity, but the ordinances of the Arronic and Levitical priesthoods is not the very commandments of God. The former priesthood ordinances had to do with administration of the sacrifices for sin under the old animal sacrificial system. Yes that has changed. But that isn't a change of any standard that God has given of what is good or what is evil.
If the Commandments are extant today, we need to pay attention to them if we hope to please God. And how could the writer of Hebrews say the good news was preached to those formerly, and then in the days of the early Church they were again preached...
Is Hebrews correct when it lays out this principle?
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another,‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#10 Jul 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Not interested in merely reading posted links....sorry.
That's ok justchristian posted the same scripture. Where we always reach an impasse is on weather or not Paul was telling the truth.

It is not a renewed covenant, it is a new covenant. What Jesus did on the cross matters-it is the game changer.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#11 Jul 9, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
That's ok justchristian posted the same scripture. Where we always reach an impasse is on weather or not Paul was telling the truth.
It is not a renewed covenant, it is a new covenant. What Jesus did on the cross matters-it is the game changer.
If Pauls writtings were wrong and against the biblical theme, then why did you comment on the first one without simply saying that Pauls writings are of not the inspired text. When Pauls writing disagree with your thoughts they then become questioned? The the Old covenant was not nailed to a cross and done away with then Christ sacrifice was of no avail and the Jews are still correct. Cant have it both ways as some early Jewish Christians desired. They even desired that of Paul and tried to kill him when he would not do as they thought.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#12 Jul 9, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
That's ok justchristian posted the same scripture. Where we always reach an impasse is on weather or not Paul was telling the truth.
It is not a renewed covenant, it is a new covenant. What Jesus did on the cross matters-it is the game changer.
Actually Hebrews was not for sure by Paul now was it?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#13 Jul 9, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
If Pauls writtings were wrong and against the biblical theme, then why did you comment on the first one without simply saying that Pauls writings are of not the inspired text. When Pauls writing disagree with your thoughts they then become questioned? The the Old covenant was not nailed to a cross and done away with then Christ sacrifice was of no avail and the Jews are still correct. Cant have it both ways as some early Jewish Christians desired. They even desired that of Paul and tried to kill him when he would not do as they thought.
Are you sure you are disagreeing with me, I thought we were on the same page. It is barnsweb who has denied the writings of Paul, not me:-)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#14 Jul 9, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you sure you are disagreeing with me, I thought we were on the same page. It is barnsweb who has denied the writings of Paul, not me:-)
Im probably confused its hot out.:)

Sorry
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#15 Jul 9, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
If Pauls writtings were wrong and against the biblical theme, then why did you comment on the first one without simply saying that Pauls writings are of not the inspired text. When Pauls writing disagree with your thoughts they then become questioned? The the Old covenant was not nailed to a cross and done away with then Christ sacrifice was of no avail and the Jews are still correct. Cant have it both ways as some early Jewish Christians desired. They even desired that of Paul and tried to kill him when he would not do as they thought.
That could be an inconsistency. But the former covenant instituted animal sacrifice since the people were afraid of God. Ezekiel 36:26 says the God would send His Spirit in due time so that His people would keep His directions from their hearts - that is what it was given for, and He said so. And if Jesus fulfilled His role in the renewed covenant, it seems folly to remove the foundation from a building of God. He joined them together. All ten of the ten commandments are affirmed by Jesus in His teaching.
This shows the need to understand the difference between ordinance of the priesthood as instituted by Moses - VS - the commandments of God that were written in stone that He said would be written on the hearts of His people with renewed purpose to do His will.

The love of Christ on the cross far exceeds any shadow of animal sacrifice.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#16 Jul 9, 2013
Google the word "Netzarim" or "hebrew roots movement" or "renewed covenant or new covenant" then we can see where barnsweb is coming from.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#17 Jul 9, 2013
Google the dumbest question ever asked on Topix
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#18 Jul 10, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Google the word "Netzarim" or "hebrew roots movement" or "renewed covenant or new covenant" then we can see where barnsweb is coming from.
Well, I'm waiting for some kind of response to the Ezekiel 36:26,27 passage of what God said He was giving the Holy Spirit for.

And regarding the question of 'who can break a covenant', of course it is the person(s) in the 'contract'. A covenant is very like a contract - conditions, parameters, rules, stuff like that, and of course the rewards of the matter for those who are to receive benefit of the covenant/contract.

So, to whom has God spoken?

Adam/Eve - foretold the matter of the Savior who would destroy the Serpent.

Noah - preached the need to repent and not be destroyed - only he and his family were saved.

Abraham - the 'father of faith', that God made covenant with Abraham and his descendants, through whom would be the Savior and other promises and the words of the Scriptures.

The Scriptures in Hebrews say the good news was preached beforehand to Israel - but they failed to attain for lack of faith.

The former and the latter covenant were both made to Israel, not the Gentiles.

So what's the point you want to make in asking?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19 Jul 10, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I'm waiting for some kind of response to the Ezekiel 36:26,27 passage of what God said He was giving the Holy Spirit for.
And regarding the question of 'who can break a covenant', of course it is the person(s) in the 'contract'. A covenant is very like a contract - conditions, parameters, rules, stuff like that, and of course the rewards of the matter for those who are to receive benefit of the covenant/contract.
So, to whom has God spoken?
Adam/Eve - foretold the matter of the Savior who would destroy the Serpent.
Noah - preached the need to repent and not be destroyed - only he and his family were saved.
Abraham - the 'father of faith', that God made covenant with Abraham and his descendants, through whom would be the Savior and other promises and the words of the Scriptures.
The Scriptures in Hebrews say the good news was preached beforehand to Israel - but they failed to attain for lack of faith.
The former and the latter covenant were both made to Israel, not the Gentiles.
So what's the point you want to make in asking?
One Question Was the Law of Moses the ten commandments the priestly order all part of the Old Covenant?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#20 Jul 10, 2013
Netzarim/hebrew roots is a movement that wants to revive the old covenant. They even try to use old testament terms like Yeshua and Yahweh as though that makes people better followers of Christ.

That movement is borderline in my mind. They honor the name of Jesus but not his complete finished work on the cross. In their approach with others they try to avoid confrontations like this by using terms like renewed covenant when it is clearly a new covenant that Jesus died for. The old covenant was based on laws rules and regulations that must be kept and only Jesus did that. The new covenant is based on grace through faith.

They make the play on words knowing that we all believe in being obedient and use that to revive the old law. Paul clearly says that the purpose of the law was to reveal the righteousness of Christ and our inability to keep the law.

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin"

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify"

What cements this in my mind is that the law clearly condemns lawbreakers and everyone of us are clearly lawbreakers without the blood of the new covenant-not a renewed covenant that resurrects the law, the very thing which kills and does not give life.

Gal 2:19For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law--I stopped trying to meet all its requirements--so that I might live for God.

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