Jesus' words only teaching, HRM
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Since: Sep 13

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#62 Sep 13, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
We have to carry our own cross and follow him. Right?
How do you follow him. Feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, heal the sick etc , etc , etc.
Just carrying that cross is work.
Works people. All of these are works.
Works are no optional.
Your will rewards will be based on your deeds. Right>
Hold on there, you arent alloed to use bible, thats YOUR personal view. You CATs are so funny. You pick up the bible if you think it can help you but when it cant you say we cant use sola scriptura because its just our opinion as to what it means, You have all of the answers dont you. So funny!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#63 Sep 13, 2013
Answering Catholics wrote:
<quoted text>
Hold on there, you arent alloed to use bible, thats YOUR personal view. You CATs are so funny. You pick up the bible if you think it can help you but when it cant you say we cant use sola scriptura because its just our opinion as to what it means, You have all of the answers dont you. So funny!
That is not my personal view. That is in the CCC.

My personal view is Protestants are not true Christians. They are heretics.

The Church teaches that it is not your fault that you born a non Catholic. We are suppose to be kind to those who have a Trinitarian baptism. It is called Invincible Ignorance. Just like a baby born a Muslim. You can't help your birth situation.

But for those who attack the Church, you are a heretic and blasphemer.

But you know, you don't have remain ignorant all your life. You probably will because of your mommy and daddy, but you dont have too

Jesus said he would cause strife in families but only for those who convert to his Church.
Curious

Manassas, VA

#64 Aug 28, 2014
Barnsweb do you think any of these criticisms are valid? There is also a part 2 in April/May archives I believe

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/search-the...
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#65 Sep 1, 2014
Dave P wrote:
Reissuing the New Testament?
Cut short to fit comments below....

It might be preferable to black out apparently blasphemous statements in the main text. But then it is possible that the clarity of Jesus' prophecies' accuracy to aim at Paul might be lessened. If the consensus concurs that is an important reason to continue such blasphemous statements, then at least these verses identified above should be footnoted.
How To Reissue The NT To Protect Readers From Blasphemy
Thus, in a reissue of the NT, here are the following verses which we must as a community insulate believers from falling prey to -either by black-outs or by footnotes, as God's wisdom may show us:
1. "by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20).
2. Romans 7:7, Paul says: "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet."
3. Romans 7:13, "But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good; --that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful."
4. Paul says in 1 Cor. xv. 56, "the strength of sin is the law i.e. it is the law, that gives sin the strength and power to kill men.(Works of John Locke (1823) Vol. 8 at 316.)
5. Romans 7:5 and 7:7 speak of the "sinful passions through the Law."
7. To prove occupants of temples are mere idols, Paul once falsely generalized (which has no exception for Jerusalem's Temple): "God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands." (Acts 17:24).
8. Paul says: "11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.(2 Thess. 2:10-13 KJV-21st)
9. Paul speaks of Jesus' return as with lying wonders - which the KJV tries to obscure by adding the 2 words in bold italic in this quote: "8 And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming—9 even him, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders (2 Thess 2:8-9 KJV) 10 and with all deceivableness and delusion."
10. All Paul's predestination verses are apparent blasphemy.
Since a couple of us take issue with BW's theology and the HRM, lets bring it to light for all to see. This comes from the JWO site. Any thoughts?
I wrestled with "Jesus Words Only" for months. I tried to talk to all three of my brothers about it, two or which are Church of Christ preachers, and my father, who at 94 is still a CoC preacher - only one dared look at the evidence and have any conversation about it at all... Their theological beliefs are so deeply ingrained in what Paul said the gospel is that they rejected the book, as they do my stance on the supremacy of the words of Jesus in the Bible - but this is clearly what the Bible teaches from Genesis through Revelation.

Having come to the subject by first examining the teachings of Jesus, I was already a fan of the principle of "Jesus words only" in that He clearly said it was by His words that all will be judged, and I had to know the real truth of what He taught because I could see something was absolutely wrong in the current "Christian" viewpoints.

The real issue about the book is if anyone can refute what Mr. DelTondo noted in his review of examining the evidences.

Can anyone here prove he is wrong?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#66 Sep 1, 2014
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever you bind and loose, he told the first Apostles. Paul was accepted by Peter. All we need to know.
Read Acts 20,21 - Paul was given the opportunity to clear himself and failed and was going to be killed on the spot for violation of a vow/oath in the Temple. All the original true Christians were zealous for the Torah, and Paul proved himself a liar. This is another reason I believe II Peter was fabricated to seek some justification to have Paul in the NT... put there by Satan, to test those who claim to believe, to see who really love God enough to obey the Son. Paul lied. Paul swore falsely. Paul didn't even teach the Torah was given of God.

And you believe Paul instead of Jesus??????

God have mercy on your confused soul.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#67 Sep 1, 2014
Curious wrote:
Barnsweb do you think any of these criticisms are valid? There is also a part 2 in April/May archives I believe
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/search-the...
Criticizing HRM for 'drawing closer to God, or contributing to their own salvation', and 'as long as they are looking at the right place for the right reasons' are both powerfully loaded accusations. Or 'becoming first century Jews' and then immediately proceeds to launch into what Paul said instead of what Jesus taught. He then says we are living under a new covenant and we are not under the old. Honestly, this is nothing but rejections of the doctrine of God for the doctrine of Paul.

Jesus cautioned that we live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. That is the very first recorded teaching in Matthew.

The gospel is centered on the fact, or belief, that Jesus is from the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - that He came in fulfillment of the Everlasting Covenant that God made with Isaac and Jacob because Abraham was found faithful to have done what God required of him - Abraham had to be found faithful to his part for God to have done His part - as noted in Genesis 26:5. Jesus is the Seed through whom all the nations are blessed through Abraham. Jesus is the Desired One, first foretold to Adam and Eve, then in the Zodiac, then in the prophecies since Moses wrote the Torah.

Since Jesus is the fulfillment of the "Everlasting Covenant", how can that Covenant then be cast aside if it is everlasting? The conditions are the same regarding morality and standards of justice and truth from God - but since the teachings of Jesus Christ, the standards of the life that God desires men to live are raised even higher than Moses gave. As Isaiah 42 says, the Messiah will magnify/glorify Torah and cause the Gentiles to honor it - not do away with it.

The HRM is largely deceived by Paul, as is everyone else, but pretend to think better of themselves for learning Hebrew and reciting some blessings - but they don't glorify the Son of God and His Words that lead to life eternal. They think rubbing their noses in the Torah will save them as they listen to Paul - but it won't. Only those who "kiss the Son" (Psalm 2) will dare to find mercy.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#68 Sep 1, 2014
18 A certain ruler asked him,“Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered.“No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments:‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him,“You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#69 Sep 2, 2014
Bobby wrote:
18 A certain ruler asked him,“Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered.“No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments:‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”
21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him,“You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.
Post the teaching from Matthew or John and we can discuss it. Oh, I already told you that, so maybe I'll have to get it:

Matthew 19:16-22 New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him,“Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him,“Why do you call Me good?[b] No one is good but One, that is, God.[c] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him,“Which ones?”

Jesus said,“‘You shall not murder,’‘You shall not commit adultery,’‘You shall not steal,’‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and,‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”[e]

20 The young man said to Him,“All these things I have kept from my youth.[f] What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him,“If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Footnotes:

Matthew 19:16 NU-Text omits Good.
Matthew 19:17 NU-Text reads Why do you ask Me about what is good?
Matthew 19:17 NU-Text reads There is One who is good.
Matthew 19:19 Exodus 20:12–16; Deuteronomy 5:16–20
Matthew 19:19 Leviticus 19:18
Matthew 19:20 NU-Text omits from my youth.

Here we see Jesus said "keep the commandments".

Then, apart from eternal life - to be perfect and have treasure in heaven - that is additional, not a required for eternal life matter.

Do use some discernment Bobby. Or did I misrepresent what Jesus said? If so, exactly where?

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