How many interpretations of one verse are allowed?

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Mark

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#61
Feb 12, 2013
 
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
John 14:8-9 "Philip said,'Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.'
"Jesus answered:'Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,'Show us the Father'?"
If we know the Son then we know the Father.
<quoted text>
If someone doesn't agree with your interpretation of scripture then it makes that person a liar?
I'm glad that it's God and God only who gets to judge our hearts.
Mark you still have not explained to us how your interpretation of scripture is the correct one and all others are false. Why should anybody believe and trust your interpretation?
<quoted text>
You are again using scripture to defeat your own argument. Mark 16:16 says not anything at all that a person who is not baptized with water "for remission of sins" is damned. It only says that a person who does not believe shall be damned. It does not say that a person who does not believe and is not baptized is damned.
What happens to a person who believes and can't be baptized with water according to the Church of Christ? Does that person go to Hell?
<quoted text>
Mark you are saying that a person has to have flawless understanding of scripture and that's another work. If a person has faith then that is enough to justify them. Abraham did not have flawless understanding and he was justified. His faith was enough to count him as righteous.
Mark you are ready and eager to throw people into the flaming fires of Hell because they don't interpret scripture exactly as you do. Are you perfect? Are you God? Is Johnny God?
<quoted text>
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean NOT on YOUR OWN understanding."
I trust the Lord. I don't trust my own understanding. I certainly don't trust the understanding of Mark Mcminnis, Johnny Robertson or James Oldfield.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

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#62
Feb 12, 2013
 
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The commandments of Jesus Christ:

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."

1 John 3:23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

2 John 1:5 "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another."

If someone claims to be a Christian, in Christ, in the Lord's church, preaching Christ etc but does not have love for others and even love for those he disagrees with, calls false and liars, says he's out to defeat and destroy, then that person is the liar.

A person who preaches Christ but does not love one another including his enemies does not have the truth in him whatsoever.

You cannot follow rules, the pattern etc and say you are a Christian if you do not have love for others, even love for those you don't consider your brothers and sisters in Christ. It means love for all people. Mark you don't get to pick and choose. You are commanded to love. If you refuse then it is you who are the liar.
Mark

Danville, VA

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#63
Feb 13, 2013
 
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
The commandments of Jesus Christ:
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
1 John 3:23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."
2 John 1:5 "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another."
If someone claims to be a Christian, in Christ, in the Lord's church, preaching Christ etc but does not have love for others and even love for those he disagrees with, calls false and liars, says he's out to defeat and destroy, then that person is the liar.
A person who preaches Christ but does not love one another including his enemies does not have the truth in him whatsoever.
You cannot follow rules, the pattern etc and say you are a Christian if you do not have love for others, even love for those you don't consider your brothers and sisters in Christ. It means love for all people. Mark you don't get to pick and choose. You are commanded to love. If you refuse then it is you who are the liar.
Ole,
Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The words of Paul are the commandments of the Lord...1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Notice vs.34 of same chapter...1Co 14:34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Also...1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Paul stated the "order" as to how and when the giving should take place in the church...1Co 16:1 ¶ Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Notice Jesus in Matt.23...Mt 23:13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mt 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides,...
Mt 23:17 Ye fools and blind:...
Mt 23:19 Ye fools and blind:...
Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:24 Ye blind guides,...
Mt 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee,...
Mt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers,...

Was Jesus not "loving" toward the Scribes and Pharisees?
He told them the cold hard truth and they hated him for it, but he so loved the world that he gave his life for them.

Because we speak the truth does not mean we don't love our neighbor.

Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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#64
Feb 13, 2013
 
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Ole,
Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
The words of Paul are the commandments of the Lord...1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Notice vs.34 of same chapter...1Co 14:34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Also...1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Paul stated the "order" as to how and when the giving should take place in the church...1Co 16:1 ¶ Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Notice Jesus in Matt.23...Mt 23:13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mt 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides,...
Mt 23:17 Ye fools and blind:...
Mt 23:19 Ye fools and blind:...
Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:24 Ye blind guides,...
Mt 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee,...
Mt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...
Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers,...
Was Jesus not "loving" toward the Scribes and Pharisees?
He told them the cold hard truth and they hated him for it, but he so loved the world that he gave his life for them.
Because we speak the truth does not mean we don't love our neighbor.
Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Mark, you and Johnny and James are the most well known scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites for a hundred miles in every direction from here. You don't care, it obviously seems, about ALL of Matthew chapter 23. None of the preachers of your sect of the Church of Christ in this area seem to care for it. But I will help you with Matthew 23.

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

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#65
Feb 13, 2013
 
Continued.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Mark if you do all of the pattern that you say Paul ordered for the church to follow, but have not love for one another, then all of your legalism is worthless and counts for nothing before God. You are trying to make yourself beautiful on the outside but in truth you are filled with bones, decay and hypocrisy within.

I will say this, that your commander Johnny has fulfilled the words of Christ and I will show you how.

He tried to sit higher than everyone else at the Danville meeting and was told to sit in the back. He brought shame upon himself and everyone there applauded when he was humbled.

He literally lives out Matthew 23:15 when he goes to Rocky Mount NC to make his one disciple there submit to legalism. How much land does he cross to do that?

Paul's words are for church conduct in worship. They are nothing about following Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth.

Mark you still have not told us why your interpretation of scripture is the only truthful one and why all others are so wrong as to be damning.

Tell us why yours is the true interpretation.

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#66
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Olethros wrote:
Continued.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mark if you do all of the pattern that you say Paul ordered for the church to follow, but have not love for one another, then all of your legalism is worthless and counts for nothing before God. You are trying to make yourself beautiful on the outside but in truth you are filled with bones, decay and hypocrisy within.
I will say this, that your commander Johnny has fulfilled the words of Christ and I will show you how.
He tried to sit higher than everyone else at the Danville meeting and was told to sit in the back. He brought shame upon himself and everyone there applauded when he was humbled.
He literally lives out Matthew 23:15 when he goes to Rocky Mount NC to make his one disciple there submit to legalism. How much land does he cross to do that?
Paul's words are for church conduct in worship. They are nothing about following Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth.
Mark you still have not told us why your interpretation of scripture is the only truthful one and why all others are so wrong as to be damning.
Tell us why yours is the true interpretation.
I love it when people throw the term legalism around without proper knowledge.

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#67
Feb 13, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I love it when people throw the term legalism around without proper knowledge.
Rigid and rabid insistence upon rules, those rules being more important than grace, and that's not legalism?

What is your definition of legalism then?
Barnsweb

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#68
Feb 13, 2013
 
Jesus (as well as Paul) taught that love is the center of our faith - keeping the commandments without love - without mercy - without justice - without the truth of the whole of the commandments of Jesus Christ - did Jesus say where to draw the line? Of course He did!

It's so true, as Paul said,'What? Am I become your enemy because I tell you the truth!?'

Jesus is the one who gave us the commandments - after all, He is the Word incarnate to tell us and show us what God meant and the very heart of the law, truth and grace of God. God must be just and true to His word, it is we who need to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith as taught by Jesus Christ.

You can't in all honesty go through the words of Jesus Christ from Matthwe through Revelation and say with a straight face that Jesus only gave one commandment or even two. He said the rest hang upon the two - not that He gave only two commandments! The Spirit testifies of the truth of Jesus Christ - and we are called to be hearers and doers of His word. Even Moses warned by prophecy that we who have heard the words of the Prophet need to hear it all - not just try to gut the truth and doctrine of God by interpreting Scriptures as Satan did.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#69
Feb 13, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
Jesus (as well as Paul) taught that love is the center of our faith - keeping the commandments without love - without mercy - without justice - without the truth of the whole of the commandments of Jesus Christ - did Jesus say where to draw the line? Of course He did!
It's so true, as Paul said,'What? Am I become your enemy because I tell you the truth!?'
Jesus is the one who gave us the commandments - after all, He is the Word incarnate to tell us and show us what God meant and the very heart of the law, truth and grace of God. God must be just and true to His word, it is we who need to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith as taught by Jesus Christ.
You can't in all honesty go through the words of Jesus Christ from Matthwe through Revelation and say with a straight face that Jesus only gave one commandment or even two. He said the rest hang upon the two - not that He gave only two commandments! The Spirit testifies of the truth of Jesus Christ - and we are called to be hearers and doers of His word. Even Moses warned by prophecy that we who have heard the words of the Prophet need to hear it all - not just try to gut the truth and doctrine of God by interpreting Scriptures as Satan did.
It sounds so professional and pious that you keep saying this but do you in reality keep all of those commands. Most of us do not deny their importance or their purpose. I would just like to know how well you are doing when it comes to actually keeping them?

There are 613 of them, I don't even know all of them or completely understand many of them. Do you know them by heart and systematically keep them to the exact dot and tittle.

I have this example of hard it is to be a law keeper. Scripture says to keep the laws of man when it does not come into conflict with God's law. Just today I was driving in a 60mph zone when I saw a policeman, I looked down and I was doing 65. He did not stop me but yet I broke the law. Everyone breaks the laws of man and God, often times without even knowing it, so how well are you doing???
Barnsweb

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#70
Feb 14, 2013
 
How about an honest statement or question once in a while? The reality is to start noting His truth - that's hearing it; then we are called to do it. What opportunities are at our disposal? and which of His words fit that opportunity or challange to let the light of His word expose itself in our life? It could be through persecutions - such as those who say they are brothers, but who don't abide in His words and commandments to say that I'm the one who isn't a 'Christian' becaus I believe in being a hearer and doer of whatever Jesus said - instead of falling back upon a few words of Paul.

You don't know if I'm really keeping them, but what you can know is if I'm really trying to uphold them and let them having meaning and action in my life. Aren't you?

Know them all? If you've looked at my listing of the commandments and teachings of Jesus, you will find I have not catagorized or reduced them in any way. So far it has escaped my ability to comprehend it all enough to hope to simplify them - and find that I still need to grasp more of their meanings and applications before attempting such - but I've seen a few who attempted to do it, but none of them drew the same conclusions that I did - and they pretty much hold to filtering the teachings of Jesus Christ through the gospel as taught by Paul - rather than filtering Paul through the gospel as taught by the Son of Master YHWY.

It is we who must open our hearts and ears to first hear Him.

It is our partnering with the Spirit and the Word as the Spirit speaks to our spirit through them and convicts/convinces us to do those things He has brought to our hearts to do.

As children who are learning to walk - we are prone to fall - He knows this and helps us to get up again and keep trying to walk in the light of His words - to the end that they lead to eternal life and the blessings of God.

I don't need you to accuse me of falling, or to tell me that I'm not perfect. Do you really think I'm so stupid?

Rather, you should consider if you have lame feet and need to get up off of your self crippled cot to do as Jesus said to do. Arise, take up your bed and walk!
Barnsweb

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#71
Feb 14, 2013
 
It always amazes me how many Christians are content to just crawl around the words of life, instead of learning how to walk in them. Are they so blind that they cannot yet see that Master Y'shua called us to walk in the light of His word - not pretend we walk as all we do is crawl around and imagine that some day we should learn to walk in them - maybe in heaven? It's just too hard to walk in His words of life today - perhaps some tomorrow in a land far away.... don't tell me to walk when I'm comfortable to suck on mommy's breast. Are those who do so allowing their faith to shrivel up on the rocks and have no root in themselves to grow into what Jesus said we can do - that we have the right to become sons of God? And then there are those who self impose infancy on themselves because they don't continue to follow Y'shua in all that He taught, but imagine to please God by following their own hearts, instead of coming to know the whole council of God given by His Son...

Rome has ruled long enough.
Bobby

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#72
Feb 14, 2013
 
Thanks for that speech, it was pretty good. Here is what I see though. You seem to want to accuse me and others of not following the commandments when you cannot see our daily lives any more than we can see yours.

However history tells us that only one man has upheld the law. The difference between us is not that we both sin and fail to keep the commands but that one of us seems to think he is an elite follower of master yhwy. Using words like that to make yourself sound sound polished and smooth. I commend you for any and all righteousness you may be achieving but for you to compare yours against others is prideful, especially when you deny others as brothers/followers of the "way". See, I can use some of those cliche words also. It does not make me more wise or acceptable to God.

I accept you as a brother and you do not accept me as one. Wonder how God sees this. Without the teaching of Paul we would all have a very small new testament. He once was a persecutor of Christians. He beat them over the head with the law and probably violence as well.

"Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief"

He did all of this while practicing the law! The law did not change him or save him, grace did.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

It was the power of grace/mercy that changed Paul!

Grace is the missing piece between us, not the commandments...
Bobby

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#73
Feb 14, 2013
 
What we all have is a fallen nature, a propensity toward sin. Law keeping cannot change that condition but grace can overcome it.

Sin is powerful but grace is more powerful. This grace was demonstrated on the cross. Our perfect savior who never broke any commandments, laid down his life that we may be washed in that soul cleansing blood. It is at the cross where we find the peace that surpasses all our understanding.

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#74
Feb 14, 2013
 
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
Rigid and rabid insistence upon rules, those rules being more important than grace, and that's not legalism?
What is your definition of legalism then?
Is there anything wrong with Rigid And Rabid obeying of Rules? Is a person legalistic when they drive 55 in a 55 zone on the number without variance?

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#75
Feb 14, 2013
 
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
Rigid and rabid insistence upon rules, those rules being more important than grace, and that's not legalism?
What is your definition of legalism then?
Here is the definition of Rabid. 3. Extremely zealous or enthusiastic; fanatical: a rabid football fan.

Are we called to be Zealous as a Christian? How about Enthusiastic? How about Fanatical and different? I say we are.

So you have misused that term here throwing that term around also.

When you used legalism in the proper manner I will probably agree with you.

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#76
Feb 14, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
What we all have is a fallen nature, a propensity toward sin. Law keeping cannot change that condition but grace can overcome it.
Sin is powerful but grace is more powerful. This grace was demonstrated on the cross. Our perfect savior who never broke any commandments, laid down his life that we may be washed in that soul cleansing blood. It is at the cross where we find the peace that surpasses all our understanding.
Please define a fallen Nature.
Bobby

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#77
Feb 14, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Please define a fallen Nature.
I did already, it is a propensity toward sin. This is why we need to work toward righteous living, it does not come natural.

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with

*our weaknesses*

but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

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#78
Feb 14, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I did already, it is a propensity toward sin. This is why we need to work toward righteous living, it does not come natural.
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with
*our weaknesses*
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
definition of propensity: An inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way.

So the next question Did Christ have this propensity?
Mark

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#79
Feb 14, 2013
 

Judged:

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Olethros wrote:
Continued.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mark if you do all of the pattern that you say Paul ordered for the church to follow, but have not love for one another, then all of your legalism is worthless and counts for nothing before God. You are trying to make yourself beautiful on the outside but in truth you are filled with bones, decay and hypocrisy within.
I will say this, that your commander Johnny has fulfilled the words of Christ and I will show you how.
He tried to sit higher than everyone else at the Danville meeting and was told to sit in the back. He brought shame upon himself and everyone there applauded when he was humbled.
He literally lives out Matthew 23:15 when he goes to Rocky Mount NC to make his one disciple there submit to legalism. How much land does he cross to do that?
Paul's words are for church conduct in worship. They are nothing about following Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth.
Mark you still have not told us why your interpretation of scripture is the only truthful one and why all others are so wrong as to be damning.
Tell us why yours is the true interpretation.
Ole, For some reason you cannot see that the bible has already been interpreted into English. I don't "interprete" scripture, I can read plain English.

What does this say?...Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I don't have to "interprete" this at all to know that a person must believe the gospel and be baptized in order to escape damnation.

What does this say?...Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Again, I don't have to interprete this into another language in order to understand that the "church" is the "body" and there is but "one body"
I can perfectly understand there is only one kind of church.

What does this say?...1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I don't have to interprete this to know that God does not approve of religious division and that there must be some "judgment" made.

What does this say?...Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I don't have to interprete this to know that the church we read about in the bible belongs to Christ.

What does this say?...1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

I don't have to interprete this to know that the name we wear that glorifies God is "Christian"

Now, would you do us all a favor and show us where you read in the bible where we should not be baptized, where the Lord is going to save more than one body, where the Lord approves of religious division, where the church is called after men's names or a practice, and where any assembly of the Lord's church were called "Baptist" "Methodist" "Roman Catholics" "Mormon" "Presbyterian" "Seventh day Adventist" "Lutheran" etc. etc. etc. Or is that "your interpretation" And since it is "your interpretation" you tell us why "yours" is the "true interpretation"

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#80
Feb 14, 2013
 
Mark you can't find one verse in all of scripture that says to be baptized or be damned. It is not in plain English words as you insist. There are more explicit commandments to kiss each other with a holy kiss than there are for baptism (or else).

You have a supposition. And a very flimsy and weak one at that.

No one here is saying not to be baptized. I have been baptized by immersion. Most people here have and possibly all. But no logical person here can find it in the New Testament church it taught that a person must be baptized or go to hell. That is your interpretation and again not one stated in scripture.

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