Does Protestantism Lead to Atheism.
First Prev
of 6
Next Last

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#101 Nov 11, 2013
William wrote:
So you can walk outside on a crystal clear moonless night there in beautiful West Virginia and gaze up into infinity and not sense the presence of God?
Certainly. You use "God" to describe the exhilaration of bonding with nature - I do not associate God with reality. Your emotions about witnessing such natural beauty is firmly founded on your belief that God created Nature. Your scenario would likely give you a warm feeling inside that you might think is the feeling of God. I would experience that warm happiness inside as well, but I would not credit God for it, I would describe it as experiencing Nature. Are we having the same experience, only describing it differently?

Here is a test to apply to your faith if you are bold enough to face up to Atheism. Make a list of the main principles of Christianity that you support and believe most passionately. Each time the name: God is used (or Jesus, spirit, Buddha, whoever) replace it with "Nature". Are your statements still true or have their meanings changed?

Nature is what you can witness as real - God is what you believe about it. The idea that there is no God does not make Nature any less amazing.
William

Pell City, AL

#102 Nov 11, 2013
I don't believe for an instant that Nature died for my sins, was buried, and resurrected for my justification.

But I am a huge fan of nature, nonetheless.

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#103 Nov 11, 2013
Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and resurrected for my justification.

Touche! This statement doesn't follow the pattern I was trying to establish with my experiment - in my defense, you were supposed to make a list.

I'll dissect it anyway, even though it sort of changes the point I wanted to make.

What does this statement mean to you? Does it mean that you OWE Jesus, since he did all that for you? Does it mean that you should respect him above all others since no one else would do what he has done? Why do his ancient acts apply to YOU personally? Does it mean that you should follow his example of giving up his own life for the sake of other people?

How does this statement relate to Nature? Nature lives, dies, and is reborn just like humans do, logically, since we are also part of nature. Do we live again after we are dead? No, William, that is fantasy - you believe a fantastic story because it is meaningful to you - even the most special of us remain dead after we die. To come back to life is against nature and against logic.

I suggest that death is not at all what you imagine it is - I suggest that we live on, like tomato plants that rot into the soil providing the nutrients for the next crop, being recycled and regenerated - and our intelligence is lost like the files on a computer that is dropped in the ocean. You imagine that our intelligence is our "soul", but I suggest that it is our brain function. I do not reject the idea that something else becomes of our intelligence, that it could be saved some way - but my imagination provides limitless ideas of how - Heaven and Hell are ridiculous choices.

Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and resurrected for my justification.

My opinion: Jesus is a personification of complete sacrifice - complete altruism - he gave all that he had for everyone but himself. His sacrifice was so great that every person who has existed since him is able to apply it to themselves, personally. This is a message of self-importance - that one deity is able to take interest in every person who lives - it's magical, like Santa. Truly, this is a story created by people, passed on by people, and kept alive by people - people who WANT to be recognized individually, but need to be controlled by an intelligent master who can guide them as a group since individuals have a hard time imagining themselves as a small part of something much larger.

Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and resurrected for my justification.

Mmm, I love reading it, William - it makes me feel good, it evokes warm emotions. It's association with warm memories of a loving church. Why should that statement bring me joy? Shouldn't I be distressed that Jesus DIED because he knew everyone would sin? Shouldn't I suggest that his example of altruism shows how it is ultimately self-destructive? Shouldn't I consider Jesus presumptuous to imagine that all people NEED to be redeemed through his death, as if God designed us imperfectly?

Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and resurrected for my justification.

This is the most basic principle of Christianity, isn't it? It is the first thing they teach you - I think it's true purpose is to perpetuate the myth. If you can accept that statement as true, you can surely swallow the rest of it.
William

Phenix City, AL

#104 Nov 11, 2013
The fundamental premise of so-called Christianity is that Jesus is the son of God, and to believe on that. I have yet to hear a priest or preacher tell me or anybody else the three things about what Christ did for us that I posted above.

I hear an awful lot about water baptism and tithing out of them, though.

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#105 Nov 11, 2013
"Jesus died for your sins" - it's on every Christian brochure I've ever been given. "Jesus is the son of God" - certainly, you'll find this in the most basic of Christian literature. Both are simply instructions for you to believe the story, the myth. I do not know either of these things to be true except that I have been told so by others. I say: who cares what Jesus did or who Jesus is - he is a character in a story - he is a symbol and an example, not an actual person who exists. Jesus's existence and actions did not and do not affect me in any way. My personality would be no different if I had never heard the story of Jesus.

I cannot relate these ideas to the role of Nature, since we have limited the list of principles to ideas to believe and not instructions of how to act. Nature does not tell you what to believe. Nature supports the idea that your beliefs do not matter at all.

But what about baptism and tithing? Who decided that these actions are required - God himself or an interpretation of what is written in the Bible?

Isn't baptism simply a ceremony that shares your experience of dedicating your free will to the efforts of God? Nature does not demand ceremonies to commemorate events - ceremonies only benefit people.

Tithing could only have originated by humans, otherwise, you would have to believe that God supports and honors our monetary system. You understand that people are the ones who put his name on every bill and coin to keep up this misconception that God loves money. People love money and materialism. Nature laughs at us for it.
William

Phenix City, AL

#106 Nov 11, 2013
Do you believe that he died for your sins?

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#107 Nov 11, 2013
William wrote:
Do you believe that he died for your sins?
I believe that the character, Jesus, died for the salvation of all people in the Bible story. I am one of "all people", so sure, Jesus died for my sins.

But it is still a story - Jesus does not really exist, only the idea of him, kept alive by people. Does Jiminy Cricket want me to wish upon a star? Sure! But Jiminy is an idea personified by a character - like Jesus. Their influences on me are their ideas, not their existence.

Do I expect Jesus to do any other thing for me? Of course not - he is not real. So many Christians holding their breath waiting for Jesus or God to do something - PEOPLE do things, not characters.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 6
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Martinsville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Catholics (Feb '14) 14 hr mpetershat 3,276
The Bible teaches that the Earth will never end (Apr '15) May 17 Anonymous 38
Christians Murder American Indians (Jan '12) May 6 William 29
thomas jefferson edwards Apr 28 nuks67 2
Norm Fields – FORMER employee of Johnny Robertson (Feb '12) Apr '16 GunFighter 29
Stop erasing my comments! Apr '16 Truth teller 1
stp 500 Apr '16 Dale 2
More from around the web

Personal Finance

Martinsville Mortgages