Since: May 10

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#42 Jun 19, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
That is the point Dave and I were trying to make. Obviously, the prayers of Cornelius were heard as was Saul’s. However, Shawn Paden and others, teach that God does not/cannot hear a sinners prayer. To be fair, I believe Shawn is saying God will not save one by a prayer alone thus he believes it to be useless for a sinner to seek God through prayer.
Now you look at what Heath finally said. God hears every word of Every Prayer.

Since: Jan 10

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#43 Jun 19, 2013
Olethros wrote:
God hears the prayers of everyone looking for Him. Heath is mad because he wants to be the one who decides who God hears, and God won't let him.

Heath thinks God doesn't hear you unless you're dunked in water with the right words ("for remission of sins") spoken over you. That's not in the Bible. Heath and Johnny and the rest of their cult made that up.

The tent meeting is not going good. If it was Johnny wouldn't be obsessing on Larry Surber, showing off his sons Micah and Caleb like they're anointed by God to be over everyone.

Johnny and the Church of Christ in Martinsville and Danville have become a sideshow joke. The whole community is laughing at them and Charles Roark's TV station now running ads for gay sex websites.
Thanks for keeping the thread fresh.

;)

www.roysecitycoc.org
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#44 Jun 19, 2013
Prayer is the privilege of the child if God.

God hears every word of every prayer prayed. It's not a matter of what God can hear. He knows all.

*Where's the rub here? There have been several occasions I recall others (not Heath) say that others who were praying, their prayers didn't get past the ceiling of the buildings where they were praying. JR and possibly others on here have been quoted as saying this. I have heard it here in KY from other coc.

I am not sure what Heath is really saying here. If prayer is a privilege for a child of God, then does God hear the prayers of those outside of Christ, but refuses to answer or acknowledge them? And what of Saul and Cornelius? Were they God's children-since God did hear them, and even answered their prayers?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#45 Jun 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok lets go a little further. Was Saul a Child of God? How about the Household of Cornelius whom it said prayed to God continually?
This went unanswered.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#46 Jun 20, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you look at what Heath finally said. God hears every word of Every Prayer.
Pretty much as I thought. God "hears" every prayer. "Only" answers the prayers of the saved/the ones baptized into Christ. This is what Shawn Paden is saying.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#47 Jun 20, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Prayer is the privilege of the child if God.
God hears every word of every prayer prayed. It's not a matter of what God can hear. He knows all.
*Where's the rub here? There have been several occasions I recall others (not Heath) say that others who were praying, their prayers didn't get past the ceiling of the buildings where they were praying. JR and possibly others on here have been quoted as saying this. I have heard it here in KY from other coc.
If prayer is a privilege for a child of God, then does God hear the prayers of those outside of Christ, but refuses to answer or acknowledge them? And what of Saul and Cornelius? Were they God's children-since God did hear them, and even answered their prayers?
Exactly Dave. This is what Shawn believes. I notice he didnt have much to say regarding Saul and Cornelius.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#49 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly Dave. This is what Shawn believes. I notice he didnt have much to say regarding Saul and Cornelius.
Theological pickles. We all agree that God hears all prayers. Now, those who differ need to state why.

But, here's the problems. If God hears the prayers of His children, then Saul and Cornelius were His children when praying. That causes theological problems for coc. If God answers prayers to those "outside of Christ", theological problems.

fOcUs. Perhaps binding God, making rules where God didn't are the problem. God can do whatever He wants; my opinion doesn't limit His sovereignty. Perhaps we should all think about what we're saying, and think about the logical conclusions we come to.

*No such thing as the "sinner's prayer", praying for salvation. But does that mean God will not hear them AT ALL? No. We have examples.

Since: May 10

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#50 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much as I thought. God "hears" every prayer. "Only" answers the prayers of the saved/the ones baptized into Christ. This is what Shawn Paden is saying.
Well it would be presumption on any mans part to tell us What God does with prayer now wouldnt it.

Since: May 10

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#51 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much as I thought. God "hears" every prayer. "Only" answers the prayers of the saved/the ones baptized into Christ. This is what Shawn Paden is saying.
The indication in scripture is that God hears all, doesnt answer as we sometimes desire, and may not seem to answer at all. It also appears that Jesus when he prayed did not say whether he was given a verbal answer from the father yet allowed things to unfold as God determined. It also appears that prayer can accomplish things if God desires them to be accomplished. Also I dont believe God will do something that is asked against his word that has been given. With all that being said I say keep praying and trust God.

Since: Jul 11

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#52 Jun 20, 2013
I agree. We can’t put God in this box and say he cannot do something. As you said, our opinions do not limit His sovereignty.

Cornelius was devout. Cornelius feared God. Cornelius believed in God. Cornelius gave much alms to the people. Cornelius was a praying man. Not only did Cornelius pray, but we are told that he, "prayed always.” Cornelius' prayers were heard by God. Acts 10: 3, 4 says that Cornelius' prayers constituted a memorial before God. God was aware of his prayers. Cornelius also had a vision.

My point: if one is seeking God, it seems obvious God does hear and does answer. This isn’t downplaying obedience to the gospel but does cut against some theological grain of those who say sinners are wasting their time praying. Tell that to Cornelius.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#53 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
I agree. We can’t put God in this box and say he cannot do something. As you said, our opinions do not limit His sovereignty.
Cornelius was devout. Cornelius feared God. Cornelius believed in God. Cornelius gave much alms to the people. Cornelius was a praying man. Not only did Cornelius pray, but we are told that he, "prayed always.” Cornelius' prayers were heard by God. Acts 10: 3, 4 says that Cornelius' prayers constituted a memorial before God. God was aware of his prayers. Cornelius also had a vision.
My point: if one is seeking God, it seems obvious God does hear and does answer. This isn’t downplaying obedience to the gospel but does cut against some theological grain of those who say sinners are wasting their time praying. Tell that to Cornelius.
Yup. I agree. Too many times we make too many assumptions about what God will or won't, can't do. That old restoration idea- speak where it speaks, silent where silent- doesn't really go very far.

Since: May 10

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#54 Jun 20, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup. I agree. Too many times we make too many assumptions about what God will or won't, can't do. That old restoration idea- speak where it speaks, silent where silent- doesn't really go very far.
However we cannot state that God does such and such when we have no record or text on that. There are secret things of God and to go into that realm is wrong. So for the Christian for sure it is recommened to Pray. I do believe it is a privilege that we do have as a child of God and to have an advocate through which we can boldly approach the throne of God. If a non believer were praying to God I wonder how he got that Idea to do so? If a person trying to cover all bases prays to Jehovah Budda and every other thing the person considers deity, I wonder what the response God would give them?

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#55 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
I agree. We can’t put God in this box and say he cannot do something. As you said, our opinions do not limit His sovereignty.
Cornelius was devout. Cornelius feared God. Cornelius believed in God. Cornelius gave much alms to the people. Cornelius was a praying man. Not only did Cornelius pray, but we are told that he, "prayed always.” Cornelius' prayers were heard by God. Acts 10: 3, 4 says that Cornelius' prayers constituted a memorial before God. God was aware of his prayers. Cornelius also had a vision.
My point: if one is seeking God, it seems obvious God does hear and does answer. This isn’t downplaying obedience to the gospel but does cut against some theological grain of those who say sinners are wasting their time praying. Tell that to Cornelius.
Cornelius had salvation even though Cornelius wasn't a Christian by religious standards.

Looks like Cornelius had faith and it was credited to him as righteousness by God. Cornelius did good works not to get salvation. He did good works because he wanted to.

Cornelius is proof of faith-only salvation.

Cornelius was baptized because he wanted to be obedient to God. Not because he had to be baptized to be saved. What did God give him salvation, hear his prayers then yank salvation away from him and not hear Cornelius praying until he was dunked in water? That's what hyperlegalist CoC teaches.

CoC teachings of Johnny, Mark, Heath and their other conspirators doesn't fly logically.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#56 Jun 20, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
However we cannot state that God does such and such when we have no record or text on that. There are secret things of God and to go into that realm is wrong. So for the Christian for sure it is recommened to Pray. I do believe it is a privilege that we do have as a child of God and to have an advocate through which we can boldly approach the throne of God. If a non believer were praying to God I wonder how he got that Idea to do so? If a person trying to cover all bases prays to Jehovah Budda and every other thing the person considers deity, I wonder what the response God would give them?
I don't disagree here with you JC. We do know absolutely that God hears and answers the prayers of Christians. We have 2 examples at least of God hearing prayers of those we consider "lost" and answering them by sending someone. To me, the blanket statement that God does not hear or answer sinners is wrong Biblically.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#57 Jun 20, 2013
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
Cornelius had salvation even though Cornelius wasn't a Christian by religious standards.
Looks like Cornelius had faith and it was credited to him as righteousness by God. Cornelius did good works not to get salvation. He did good works because he wanted to.
Cornelius is proof of faith-only salvation.
Cornelius was baptized because he wanted to be obedient to God. Not because he had to be baptized to be saved. What did God give him salvation, hear his prayers then yank salvation away from him and not hear Cornelius praying until he was dunked in water? That's what hyperlegalist CoC teaches.
CoC teachings of Johnny, Mark, Heath and their other conspirators doesn't fly logically.
False as the devil saying that faith only was the way of salvation.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#58 Jun 20, 2013
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
Cornelius had salvation even though Cornelius wasn't a Christian by religious standards.
Looks like Cornelius had faith and it was credited to him as righteousness by God. Cornelius did good works not to get salvation. He did good works because he wanted to.
Cornelius is proof of faith-only salvation.
Cornelius was baptized because he wanted to be obedient to God. Not because he had to be baptized to be saved. What did God give him salvation, hear his prayers then yank salvation away from him and not hear Cornelius praying until he was dunked in water? That's what hyperlegalist CoC teaches.
CoC teachings of Johnny, Mark, Heath and their other conspirators doesn't fly logically.
We have beat this horse to death already. When you went by "whitman" this was addressed by myself and others.

Since: Jan 10

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#59 Jun 20, 2013
Thanks to all for keeping this thread fresh.

www.roysecitycoc.org

Since: Jul 11

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#60 Jun 20, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
Thanks to all for keeping this thread fresh.
www.roysecitycoc.org
You seem to think “keeping this thread fresh” will accomplish something. We don’t mind keeping it fresh. In fact, we hi-jacked it and took it another direction.

Post your TV show on YouTube when you visit Martinsville so we all can view it and discuss here.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#61 Jun 20, 2013
The tent meeting must not be successful. None of Johnny's gang is talking about it. They only want to talk about Larry Surber. Nobody is being baptized there. All of that talent from across the country come to Martinsville and not anything to show for it?

Smart serious people are staying away from the Church of Christ tent circus freakshow. They are probably watching NBA Finals. That is something guaranteed to show a slam dunk.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#62 Jun 20, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
We have beat this horse to death already. When you went by "whitman" this was addressed by myself and others.
JesusCreed, I have never called myself "whitman."

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