WZZM13 - Family and friends grieve, o...

WZZM13 - Family and friends grieve, others question intersection

There are 66 comments on the WZZM Grand Rapids story from Jul 15, 2007, titled WZZM13 - Family and friends grieve, others question intersection. In it, WZZM Grand Rapids reports that:

Family and friends of two teenage girls spent Sunday saying goodbye. Visitation for 16-year-old Holli Greenman and 15-year-old Hannah Takens happened throughout the day in Byron Center.

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Since: Jul 07

Wyoming

#1 Jul 15, 2007
What a sad, sad, day...
Kelli

Ionia, MI

#2 Jul 15, 2007
It's horrible, something needs to be done! My prayers go to the friends and family of the girls.:( so so so sad.
Jen

Studio City, CA

#3 Jul 16, 2007
It is so sad what happened. My condolences to the families. For what we pay in taxes, why can't something be done. A four way stop with a blinking light, would that be too much to ask?
kathy

Grand Rapids, MI

#4 Jul 16, 2007
FIRST MY CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILIES AND MY PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU ALL....BUT YOU CAN'T BLAME THE INTERSECTION..IT WASN'T DOING THE DRIVING..A TEEN WAS AND WE ALL KNOW THAT TEENS DON'T PAY ATTENTION..IF A 4 WAY SIGN WAS PUT UP..IT STILL WOULD BE RAN AND THATS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THINGS..AND AS FAR AS THAT PERSON IN THE NEWS ARTICLE...YOU CAN SEE BOTH WAYS VERY CLEAR AS I DRIVE THAT ROAD 4 TIMES OR BETTER EACH DAY AND HAVE NO PROBLEM SEEING AND OR STOPPING..
Doug

Wapakoneta, OH

#5 Jul 16, 2007
I agree that its a very sad thing that happened and my prayers go out for the parties involved. BUT, its up to the DRIVER to pay attention and b aware of whats around them. Everybody thinks when something like this happens they need to change something or blame someone. After thats done then the layers take over and file some stupid lawsuit. Let all slow down, pay attention and be responsible for OUR own actions.
Pat

United States

#6 Jul 16, 2007
I grew up out in the country between Sparta & Rockford. We lived on the corner of a fairly busy intersection that had a stop sign on the North & South sides of the road. East/West had no stop. We lived there approx 8 years, and never a month went by without some sort of accident. We would hear the screeching... and just wait for the BANG. A couple people died- sunday school christmas program.

We moved from there years ago... and the county has since made it a 4-way stop with blinking light. From what I understand, no one has died since. Whenever I drive thru that intersection, I am so thankful that someone finally listened and put a stop sign on every corner.

The fact of the matter is, we are all imperfect and have all probably had a moment or two when we were distracted, had a lapse in judgement, etc. I personally think that ANY way to try to limit things like this is a good thing. Granted- it wont stop every accident... but who knows. If the intersection had been a 4-way... these girls might still be alive.

So sad....
Pat

United States

#7 Jul 16, 2007
"A couple people died- sunday school christmas program."

Meant to read: "One woman died in my dad's arms the night of my sunday school christmas program".
Grand Rapids

United States

#8 Jul 16, 2007
IT IS VERY SAD IN DEED THAT MORE AND MORE OF OUR TEENS ARE LOSING THEIR LIVES DRIVING. WE AS PARENTS NEED TO KEEP REMINDING THEM THAT A CAR IS NOT A TOY AND THAT THEY NEED TO BE MORE AWARE WHEN DRIVING. GOD BLESS BOTH FAMILIES
kathy

Grand Rapids, MI

#9 Jul 16, 2007
TO PAT
YOUR WRONG FOR SAYING THAT..ALL YOU ARE DOING THERE IS LETTING TEENS KNOW THAT IF THERE WAS A 4 WAY SIGN AND THE TRUCK STOPPED THEY COULD STILL BREAK THE LAW AND RUN THE STOP SIGN.THEY MAY HAVE STILL BEEN ALIVE BUT THATS NOW THE ISSUE HERE..THEY WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION..
Pat

United States

#10 Jul 16, 2007
"I personally think that ANY way to try to limit things like this is a good thing. Granted- it wont stop every accident..."

I never said it would have stopped them from running the stop sign. And I never said they werent responsible. Trust me, I am allllll about personal responsibility.

But- what I WAS trying to say is that sometimes with notoriously bad intersections, it is a good- no, GREAT- idea to make them 4 way stops. Why? Because in the event that someone runs a stop sign-which happens alllll the time, there is a better chance no one else will get hurt because most of the parties at the intersection would be either stopped or going slow, thus allowing a faster breaking time... and maybe saving lives
Pat

United States

#11 Jul 16, 2007
"ALL YOU ARE DOING THERE IS LETTING TEENS KNOW THAT IF THERE WAS A 4 WAY SIGN AND THE TRUCK STOPPED THEY COULD STILL BREAK THE LAW AND RUN THE STOP SIGN."

And by the way, no SANE person would EVER say to anyone, let a lone a teenager, that they could run a 4 way stop if the other people at the intersection are stopped. Are you even serious?
AJW

Loves Park, IL

#12 Jul 16, 2007
Kathy,
How is Pat wrong? Pat said that it wouldn't stop every accident... There was an acknowledgement to the issue of paying attention... What person, teen or not, would break the law and run the stop sign on purpose just because there's a four way stop? You're argument just doesn't make sense. I get that you don't feel there's a need for a four way and that this was caused by a failure to pay attention, but what would be so wrong with putting in a four way if it reduced the risk for an accident? I'm not sure exactly where Pat is referring to, but I live between Sparta and Rockford now, and even though there is a four way at Pine Island and 10-mile, there are still several accidents a year. They are mostly fender benders without serious injury. But just a mile or so up 10-mile at the intersection of Division, there are more accidents a year and some are quite serious. It's not a matter of not seeing the stop sign. It's a matter of not being able to pull onto 10-mile. The road is way too busy and people drive way too fast. I used to live on Division now I live on another road that intersects with 10-mile and sometimes I've waited nearly 20 minutes to pull off my road. Not that this is the case where this accident occurred, but how could the four way hurt?
GRR

Grand Rapids, MI

#13 Jul 16, 2007
Teenage or not, Ask the adult driver that didn't stop at 76 and Eastren today on my lunch hour. Thank God I always use the advice I gave to my kids or I would have been hit.
"Wait for just a second at any light or stop sign because you just never know if they are going to stop or slide through on ice"..
Everyone needs to pay attention and slow down.
God bless these families and friends.
Pat

United States

#14 Jul 16, 2007
AJW-

Yes the intersection I was talking about is 10 mile & Pine Island. Until the 4 way stop, that used to be just a horrible intersection. Everytime I drive thru it I cringe at all the memories of mangled cars (and people!)
Pat

United States

#15 Jul 16, 2007
AJW

PS- When I was little, the only accident I have ever been in happened on a school bus... at the intersection of 10 mile & division! Our bus driver (heading North) stopped at the intersection, opened her door, looked... then pulled out in front of a car heading west.
AJW

Loves Park, IL

#16 Jul 16, 2007
Pat,
That intersection is still horrible. Some days I have to drive down my father-in-law's lane to get home because they have it blocked off completely due to an accident. And I remember the one at Pine Island years ago too. I didn't live around there then, but my Aunt and Uncle lived just past Fonger and they were always telling us about accidents, not to mention the ones we'd see when we were visiting.
I totally agree with you. I think about a lot of intersections on busy roads and believe that most should have 4 way stops because it seems that when people drive down road that have long stretches between stops, they tend to drive highway speeds instead of surface road speeds. Northland Drive is notorious for this. The majority of people drive faster than 70 even with the stop lights. It's crazy.
kathy

Grand Rapids, MI

#17 Jul 16, 2007
AJW wrote:
Kathy,
How is Pat wrong? Pat said that it wouldn't stop every accident... There was an acknowledgement to the issue of paying attention... What person, teen or not, would break the law and run the stop sign on purpose just because there's a four way stop? You're argument just doesn't make sense. I get that you don't feel there's a need for a four way and that this was caused by a failure to pay attention, but what would be so wrong with putting in a four way if it reduced the risk for an accident? I'm not sure exactly where Pat is referring to, but I live between Sparta and Rockford now, and even though there is a four way at Pine Island and 10-mile, there are still several accidents a year. They are mostly fender benders without serious injury. But just a mile or so up 10-mile at the intersection of Division, there are more accidents a year and some are quite serious. It's not a matter of not seeing the stop sign. It's a matter of not being able to pull onto 10-mile. The road is way too busy and people drive way too fast. I used to live on Division now I live on another road that intersects with 10-mile and sometimes I've waited nearly 20 minutes to pull off my road. Not that this is the case where this accident occurred, but how could the four way hurt?
THEY WERE FROM THERE ..THEY KNEW OF THE STOP SIGN AND STILL RAN IT.YOU TELL ME ..
kathy

Grand Rapids, MI

#18 Jul 16, 2007
Pat wrote:
"I personally think that ANY way to try to limit things like this is a good thing. Granted- it wont stop every accident..."
I never said it would have stopped them from running the stop sign. And I never said they werent responsible. Trust me, I am allllll about personal responsibility.
But- what I WAS trying to say is that sometimes with notoriously bad intersections, it is a good- no, GREAT- idea to make them 4 way stops. Why? Because in the event that someone runs a stop sign-which happens alllll the time, there is a better chance no one else will get hurt because most of the parties at the intersection would be either stopped or going slow, thus allowing a faster breaking time... and maybe saving lives
WELL HERES ONE TIME THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO KNOW..THE GIRLS LIVED AND WENT TO SCHOOL ON THAT VERY SAME STREET..THEY KNEW OF THE SIGN AND STILL RAN IT.
bnice

Grand Rapids, MI

#19 Jul 16, 2007
Kathy, why all the YELLING? You are wasting a lot of energy on anger.
Pat

United States

#20 Jul 16, 2007
Are you insinuating that they ran the sign on purpose?

You know, I have run one stop sign in my life... and it was less than a mile away from my house. Why did I run it? I wasnt paying attention. And after I ran it- I pulled over and about had a heart attack. I realized how badly that lack of attention could have affected myself or someone else.

So just because one knows of a stop sign doenst mean they are going to have any more attention there than anywhere else. MISTAKES HAPPEN. Again...

"..what I WAS trying to say is that sometimes with notoriously bad intersections, it is a good- no, GREAT- idea to make them 4 way stops. Why? Because in the event that someone runs a stop sign-which happens alllll the time, there is a better chance no one else will get hurt because most of the parties at the intersection would be either stopped or going slow, thus allowing a faster breaking time... and maybe saving lives"

Do you not agree that bad instersections should be 4 way stops? Or are you truly of the opinion that things should be left the way they are, and if someone makes a *mistake* that hurts them or takes their life, that they "got what was coming to them for running the sign".

Because that is how you are coming across- Unforgiving and no compassion.

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