SWVA EMS Trauma/Triage Plan

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Fuzz

Johnson City, TN

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#21
Jun 12, 2012
 
BadAss wrote:
The medical industry overall is nothing but a bunch of profit hungry CEOs lining their offices and wallets at your expense and because of your misfortunes.
We were asked for a down payment at a local hospital or given the option to take out a MedKey credit card and get slapped upside the bank account with interest rates and everything else in order to get an out patient surgery procedure done. Needles to say, I tossed the "are you refusing care due to inability to pay" line at them and pointed to their sign hanging on the wall. They took us in, done their surgery but then later tried to slap us with additional charges that we haggled BEFORE we paid them a DIME. We got by with a lot less that way than we would have otherwise...
These people gouge your wallet every chance they get, they are not in it to take care of you, they are in it because it's a HUGE profit.
I realize this is a different matter from MedFlight and such, but still, it's health industry and it needs to be stopped.
I don't disagree
goodness

Lancaster, CA

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#22
Jun 12, 2012
 
HMMM wrote:
Perhaps "concerned provider" can comment as to price. Wings Air Rescue charges a base of $12,000 to fly, and one must pay UP FRONT before transport. Med-Flight is a state-provided transport, and costs NOTHING.
In a true life-or-death emergency, then cost shouldn't be an issue. But when it's not, I want the best care I can afford. It's disingenuous for the transport provider to be making the call as when to fly someone when they financially benefit from that decision.
Stupidest person on the planet. But, its impossible to educate you stupid SWVA EMS dumbfucks. I just feel sorry for the community that relies on EMS and dispatch in that area for actual care. CLOSEST AVAILABLE BIRD...its that simple...why do you morons make it complicated? Pathetic.
quiet guy

Keswick, VA

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#23
Jun 12, 2012
 
No, I will give the "stupidest" title to you. There are some excellent EMS providers in this area who do an outstanding job in spite of the idiots that are dealt with every day. As I said, I do not compromise patient care. Protocols cannot cover every aspect of every call, that is why providers are trained to care properly for patients and make decisions in the best interest of the patient when it comes to transportation. If protocols could make all of the decisions for everyone, you would not need well trained providers who are able to think.
goodness

Lancaster, CA

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#24
Jun 12, 2012
 
quiet guy wrote:
No, I will give the "stupidest" title to you. There are some excellent EMS providers in this area who do an outstanding job in spite of the idiots that are dealt with every day. As I said, I do not compromise patient care. Protocols cannot cover every aspect of every call, that is why providers are trained to care properly for patients and make decisions in the best interest of the patient when it comes to transportation. If protocols could make all of the decisions for everyone, you would not need well trained providers who are able to think.
The 2 good providers in SWVA are Jimmy Shupe and Marty Sizemore. And oddly enough, they both fly..one for Med flight and one for Wings. The bulk of other providers in that area are average/below average at best.
Pke53280

Nashville, TN

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#25
Jun 12, 2012
 
Concerned provider wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure what the base price is to fly via Wings Air Rescue but I'm sure you can obtain that information somewhere. As to having to pay UP FRONT....that makes absolutely no sense and I'm sorry but I must laugh at that statement as a whole. I have yet to see a helicopter land on a scene or at a hospital and ask the injured or dying patient to cut them a check pre-flight. WOW!
As far as Med-flight goes, they are not FREE. No, you do not have to pay for the use of the helicopter because that comes out of our tax dollars so basically you have pre-paid for that flight whether you use it or not. As for the med-crew and medical supplies provided by Welmont, you do receive a bill for those and if you ask Welmont for an itemized statement you will see this.
In regards to your "life-or-death emergency" comment, according to the trauma triage plan the patient should meet the critical criteria prior to being flown from a scene or a hospital. When it isn't a life or death situation, to the best of the ground crews knowledge, that patient should not even be considered for Medevac transport.
Personally, if it is my family in need I could care less who flies them and how much it costs as long as they get to definitive care the FASTEST way possible. If that means calling in the Star Trek Enterprise then that's perfectly fine by me!!
So, you on Wings Air Rescue's payroll or something?
jeff

Union Hall, VA

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#26
Jun 12, 2012
 

Judged:

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For the 7-9 min difference in flight time, if your in Marion, give me med-flight. We don't have a Level one trauma center in SWVA anyway; now that's what you should be fighting for.
My decision

Charlottesville, VA

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#27
Jun 13, 2012
 
I also have told my family to call State Police for transport. I feel its a person right to choose and no one should have a monopoly. I know for fact at Wings has flown Medacaid teenage to Abingdon because of a cold. Another tax payer bill so why shouldn't we go with tax paid State Police. The hospital design team sure leaves alot to chance with the pad located in such an unsafe location. I suppose the same genius created that is also telling everyone you have to go by protocal in using air lift.
HMMM

Marion, VA

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#28
Jun 13, 2012
 
Pke53280 wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you on Wings Air Rescue's payroll or something?
Yep, he is. Red head and all.
So Sorry

Johnson City, TN

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#29
Jun 13, 2012
 
jeff wrote:
For the 7-9 min difference in flight time, if your in Marion, give me med-flight. We don't have a Level one trauma center in SWVA anyway; now that's what you should be fighting for.
I feel sorry for you or your family if you need definative care asap and you have to wait an additional 7-9 minutes no matter what aircraft is coming for you. Obviously you have never been a provider on a truck needing ALS and every minute that goes by seems like an hour as your patient lays dying in front of you. Or if you have been that provider and still feel this way then you need to find a new line of work.
Our oath as providers is to DO NO HARM.
Time is tissue. Time is muscle. 7-9 minutes can mean the difference between life or death. I hope the cost savings was worth it.
Cat

Charlottesville, VA

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#30
Jun 13, 2012
 
So Sorry wrote:
<quoted text>
I feel sorry for you or your family if you need definative care asap and you have to wait an additional 7-9 minutes no matter what aircraft is coming for you. Obviously you have never been a provider on a truck needing ALS and every minute that goes by seems like an hour as your patient lays dying in front of you. Or if you have been that provider and still feel this way then you need to find a new line of work.
Our oath as providers is to DO NO HARM.
Time is tissue. Time is muscle. 7-9 minutes can mean the difference between life or death. I hope the cost savings was worth it.
If your argument is to be taken seriously, EMS providers with ALS and birds would be staffed 24/7 and spread out across the region with substations in every neighborhood. From my experience here in Smyth County, your 7 to 9 minutes of "golden hour" is, at best, spent waiting for the on call crew to respond, and, at worst, for second and third alerts to get basic crew members to respond. Getting ALS, even with emergency traffic, is additional delay unless it's a daytime call, and even then, there's only one call crew. If they're out on a previous, they're tied up and we're back to volleys. Instead of fighting about protocols that make little sense, why not be working to strengthen the EMS community.
So Sorry

Johnson City, TN

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#31
Jun 14, 2012
 
Cat wrote:
<quoted text>
If your argument is to be taken seriously, EMS providers with ALS and birds would be staffed 24/7 and spread out across the region with substations in every neighborhood. From my experience here in Smyth County, your 7 to 9 minutes of "golden hour" is, at best, spent waiting for the on call crew to respond, and, at worst, for second and third alerts to get basic crew members to respond. Getting ALS, even with emergency traffic, is additional delay unless it's a daytime call, and even then, there's only one call crew. If they're out on a previous, they're tied up and we're back to volleys. Instead of fighting about protocols that make little sense, why not be working to strengthen the EMS community.
I don't disagree with your points. We do need to improve the current reponse times and situation among our EMS community. However, if ALS is not available or not responding, wouldn't it be smart to use a resource we have so close on hand? Medevacs are ALS also. If they can be on scene before the ground ALS can then why not call them? They are a licensed EMS agency and a resource to utilize just as our ground units are.

I'm not fighting for one Medevac unit over the other. I'm just trying to point out that when you need help (ALS) then let's use the closest resource we have. Patient care comes first.
quiet guy

Marion, VA

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#32
Jun 14, 2012
 
Thank you Cat- you are right on target. There are few ALS providers in this area, it takes time and money to become certified, and lot of work to stay current and certified. Few individuals will volunteer to do that anymore, and citizens should know that . We can't force people to volunteer. My personal feeling is that volunteer EMS is on the way out.
Questioning Mind

Charlottesville, VA

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#33
Jun 14, 2012
 

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If the closest available air lift is Wings, and its protocol to have them do call. WHY would it not be protocal to have the patient taken to the closest facility for Trauma, which would be Bristol Regional, but no they are transported even further to another Mountain States Hospital. Am I the only person seeing this as a problem???
Questions answered

Johnson City, TN

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#34
Jun 14, 2012
 

Judged:

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It's actually very rare that they end up taking a trauma pt to Johnson City from a scene since they are usually closer to Kingsport or Roanoke. They are required by law to transport to the closet Level 1 Trauma Center from where they are at the time transport is initiated. Bristol is a Level 2 so that is why they must by pass it at times. They do go to Bristol quite often though with cardiac or neuro emergencies.

If it is a trauma pt from a scene call they transport to the closest level 1 whether that be Johnson City, Kingsport, Roanoke or Winston...it just depends where they are picking that pt up.

If it is an interfacility transfer then they must transport to whatever hospital has been designated as the receiving facility. Wings does not make that call, the discharging facility does.

I hope that answered your question :-)
jeff

Union Hall, VA

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#35
Jun 14, 2012
 

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So Sorry wrote:
<quoted text>
I feel sorry for you or your family if you need definative care asap and you have to wait an additional 7-9 minutes no matter what aircraft is coming for you. Obviously you have never been a provider on a truck needing ALS and every minute that goes by seems like an hour as your patient lays dying in front of you. Or if you have been that provider and still feel this way then you need to find a new line of work.
Our oath as providers is to DO NO HARM.
Time is tissue. Time is muscle. 7-9 minutes can mean the difference between life or death. I hope the cost savings was worth it.
What I am afraid of is my choice is being taken away from me, in the name of protocols; which seems to be code for MONEY. We have two new hospitals in the area both of which can not handle major traumas; they don't have the doctors on staff(but it's better that nothing and they do have some good people). Again take the money for the helicopter and get a full staffed trauma center is my vote. They seem to have put the cart before the horse.
hey its me

Charlotte, NC

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#36
Jun 14, 2012
 
I'd like to kick my wife in her god damn teeth today. Just needed a thread to post this on. Sorry for the interruption. Carry on.
Cat

Charlottesville, VA

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#37
Jun 14, 2012
 
Questions answered wrote:
It's actually very rare that they end up taking a trauma pt to Johnson City from a scene since they are usually closer to Kingsport or Roanoke. They are required by law to transport to the closet Level 1 Trauma Center from where they are at the time transport is initiated. Bristol is a Level 2 so that is why they must by pass it at times. They do go to Bristol quite often though with cardiac or neuro emergencies.
If it is a trauma pt from a scene call they transport to the closest level 1 whether that be Johnson City, Kingsport, Roanoke or Winston...it just depends where they are picking that pt up.
If it is an interfacility transfer then they must transport to whatever hospital has been designated as the receiving facility. Wings does not make that call, the discharging facility does.
I hope that answered your question :-)
Wings transports to MSHA facilities 99% of the time, and they bill 100% of the time.
duh

Charlotte, NC

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#38
Jun 14, 2012
 
Cat wrote:
<quoted text>
Wings transports to MSHA facilities 99% of the time, and they bill 100% of the time.
MSHA facilities in JC are level 1 trauma centers...check the protocol...they also transport to HVMC in kpt which is a Level 1. Its not MSHA. Smythe County and JMH are MSHA owned facilities and call Wings for transfers to facilities all over a 250 mile radius including Roanoke, Wake Forest, and others. Your "99%" is a bullshit # pulled from your uneducated SWVA EMS ass.
I find it funny how the "Free" helicopter transports to LEVEL 2 in TENNESSEE instead of a VA facility, and also accepts calls from dispatch only to transfer those calls to WELMONT ONE just to keep Wings from getting the call. By the way..WELMONT bills for those. Idiot.
Cat

Charlottesville, VA

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#39
Jun 14, 2012
 
duh wrote:
<quoted text>
MSHA facilities in JC are level 1 trauma centers...check the protocol...they also transport to HVMC in kpt which is a Level 1. Its not MSHA. Smythe County and JMH are MSHA owned facilities and call Wings for transfers to facilities all over a 250 mile radius including Roanoke, Wake Forest, and others. Your "99%" is a bullshit # pulled from your uneducated SWVA EMS ass.
I find it funny how the "Free" helicopter transports to LEVEL 2 in TENNESSEE instead of a VA facility, and also accepts calls from dispatch only to transfer those calls to WELMONT ONE just to keep Wings from getting the call. By the way..WELMONT bills for those. Idiot.
Look at the transport records before you call names. Statistics cant be twisted to make your argument. Records bear out that WINGS is a MSHA primary transport air ambulance and flies a vast majority to MSHA facilities, and only transports to out of system centers when they absolutely have to. Even then, MSHA is where the WINGS bill comes from and where the money goes.

If you had one shred of evidence Medflight and/or local dispatchers were in collusion, and breaking he law, you'd be in front of the Attorney General instead of making a fool of yourself on a stupid website. You argue that WINGS transports to TN, but it's a bad thing if Medflight does. Are you getting paid to make such a monkey of yourself for your employer, or are you doing it out of pure ego?
Interesting

Charlottesville, VA

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#40
Jun 14, 2012
 

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