Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72036 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#46980 Jan 14, 2013
MAAT wrote:
1.

You presume too much.
At least they give critique after thoroughly scrutinizing a text.
But you proof to be a stubborn non reader and avoid any modernism hence the typification 'fits'.

2.

Point established since if you read it you would see exactly what Islamic sources are used. Only the earliest. And we would see Mecca before it exploded in the town it is now.
So you are finding fault with those now inconvenient truths.

02. Months ago i showed you the redacting of the talk Mohammad had with the 'Ethiopians' and ' Christian Yemenites' and how that narrative differed in several versions to make the prophet seem ever more glorious, with every retelling.
And that older versions were discarded in favour of the new flattering fabulation.

04. There also comes a point where your sun-stained objections simply become an anti-western attitude.

Shooting the messenger as a matter of fact, since the sources are Islamic.
Ans.

01. No I do not presume too much. Any one who has knowledge of Islamic books and their classifications and the "authoritative ways" in which these 'Western pygmy giants" rate them, makes one wonder, are they even honest?

They have only rudimentary knowledge of Arabic language and its intricacies, yet pose as if they are Masters and Authorities on Arabic language and their analysis and their findings are the last.

02. Earliest Islamic writings do not mean that "every one is absolute truth". In Islam there is a verification process, in which the value of every narration is first checked. If the chain link of narration is weak or doubtful, it is discarded. The Western people, just jump to conclusions, without first analyzing the chain.

It is because in their system, there is no such thing as "verifying the narrators". They simply think "Old is Gold". They work in "good faith" forgetting that people could lie and invent lies in every age.

03. No doubt when one incident is recoded by different people, there would be some variations in there rendering, that is why weightage is given to every narration and a "compound view" is taken.

That does not mean "all these stories are fabrication and no such incident took place"

04. If you think my comments border on Anti Western you could be right, because the so called Western Pygmy giants have similar opinion about Most Respected Islamic writers.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#46981 Jan 14, 2013
Non-vegetarianism is one step below cannibalism.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#46982 Jan 14, 2013
Going with Rachel and Nisha to a party that is sure to rock hard till the wee hours given the high profile venue and the glam guys and gals hosting it. Bye. Later.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#46983 Jan 14, 2013
glam guys and gals?
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46984 Jan 14, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Do what? What action for "us" are you speaking?
Atonement for our sins.
Eric

Berkeley, IL

#46985 Jan 14, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
We Condemn "Everyone" who says anything "bad" about any prophet of G-d. Period!
Please give your opinion of Bahuallah.
Eric

Berkeley, IL

#46986 Jan 14, 2013
SamBee wrote:
<quoted text>
Atonement for our sins.
And, considering that the tense of the passage is "past tense", and Isaiah wrote the passage prior to 1 CE, how does this passage relate to someone born after the passage was written?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#46987 Jan 14, 2013
Gtown71 wrote:
<quoted text>
There must be a absolute truth, if not then we will do what is right in our own eyes.
If given a book of abdolute truth, but told one word was changed somewhere within it, either a word added or taken away, it would render the book useless.
With sooo many books claiming the truth, which one is true?
With sooo many lies,then where is truth.
I believe with all that is in me, if a man truly wants to know the One True God, the that man can call out within hinself, the way a human would call out to a God, and the One True God will come forth, and show that man truth, becouse all false gods are dead in their graves and their souls cast out. Chose this day, whom you will serve, or serve yourself, as many if not most do. As I did for far too many years. I can tell you the night I met the One true God, as I was sick of who I was, and as humble as a small afraid child.
Logic Fail #1: You talk about the existence of "absolute truth" (also known as Universality in philosophical circles) but show no correlation between that statement and the existence of a god. I too believe that absolute truth can exist, but in the form of logic and mathematics, not in the existence of an imaginary being.

Logic Fail #2: You talk about absolute truth, yet fail to describe an objective yard stick for ascertaining such truth, instead relying on subjective experience ("...if a man truly wants to know the One True God, the that man can call out within himself").

Your arguments are strictly emotion-based and filled with anecdotes of your "coming to Jesus" experience. That is fine if it helped get you through a rough spot, but your personal experience has no relevance to the topic of "absolute truth".
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#46988 Jan 14, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
And, considering that the tense of the passage is "past tense", and Isaiah wrote the passage prior to 1 CE, how does this passage relate to someone born after the passage was written?
rabbee: well if the origional passage, was written without vowels. then it has no tense, since tense is mainly dependant on vowels in eevreet. so without vowels, it would effectivly be - past tense, present tends, and future tense all in one. and it is obvious, that none of you have, quit sinning yet. and you cannot atone for sins, if you have never actually stopped.
Eric

Berkeley, IL

#46989 Jan 14, 2013
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: well if the origional passage, was written without vowels. then it has no tense, since tense is mainly dependant on vowels in eevreet.
absolutely incorrect

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#46990 Jan 14, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. No I do not presume too much. Any one who has knowledge of Islamic books and their classifications and the "authoritative ways" in which these 'Western pygmy giants" rate them, makes one wonder, are they even honest?
They have only rudimentary knowledge of Arabic language and its intricacies, yet pose as if they are Masters and Authorities on Arabic language and their analysis and their findings are the last.
02. Earliest Islamic writings do not mean that "every one is absolute truth". In Islam there is a verification process, in which the value of every narration is first checked. If the chain link of narration is weak or doubtful, it is discarded. The Western people, just jump to conclusions, without first analyzing the chain.
It is because in their system, there is no such thing as "verifying the narrators". They simply think "Old is Gold". They work in "good faith" forgetting that people could lie and invent lies in every age.
03. No doubt when one incident is recoded by different people, there would be some variations in there rendering, that is why weightage is given to every narration and a "compound view" is taken.
That does not mean "all these stories are fabrication and no such incident took place"
04. If you think my comments border on Anti Western you could be right, because the so called Western Pygmy giants have similar opinion about Most Respected Islamic writers.
Just a general observation on the book of Margoliouth.
This professor combines all sources and translations available at that time. With new found texts of f.i. the gospel translated in khfic-syriac as a nabatean precursor of Arabic, we can even fill in some blanks, where the professor states he does not know.
Which latter statements shows his intellectual honesty when appraising chirsitianity and the notion of ordinary people being aware of books. His approach is to find rationales for the islamic empire by the empire builder Moahmed.
So his interest is in the fisrt place on the pre-islamic days and mores followed by the earliest sources on Islam, history of the region, regal libraries and what is seen as authorative, still today.

So i notice that you manage to combine opposites. The mere fact that a much later authoritave committee discarded texts does not mean that they not were original and depict truth as was.
I think you should take this approach while reading the book.

They as in the giants did the first thorough studies on the language and went to great ends to get it right.
Where for the believers and proponents of furthering islam these were matters that were not to be probed.
Historic research has always been about finding the exact events by stripping away legends, opportunism and wishfull embellishments.

I suggest you just read the book.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#46991 Jan 14, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
absolutely incorrect
rabbee: do you have an origional or authentic scroll, to verify your claim? but evidence suggests, that all official scriptures, were written in tetragrammen eevreet (almost completely without vowels). as it is in, The Athenticated Torah Scrolls.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46993 Jan 14, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Do what? What action for "us" are you speaking?
I am more interested in:
And this shall be peace: when the Assyrian shall come into our land, and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight princes among men.
And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod with the keen-edged sword; and he shall deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our border.
Mikah 5

1.Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

Precept:

MattithYahu 27

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Yahusha into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

2.But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Precept:

MattithYahu 2

1.Now when Yahusha was born in Bethlehem of Judah in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

6. And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall come a ruler, that shall rule my people Israel.

3.Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Precept:

Mikah 4:10

10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

4. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of Yahuah, in the majesty of the name of Yahuah his Power; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

Precept:

YashaYahu 40:10-11

10. Behold, the Master Yahuah will come with strong hand(Yahusha), and his arm(Yahusha)shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

11. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

5.And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

Precept:

YashaYahu 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Strong El, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

YashaYahu 7

7. Now therefore, behold, Yahuah bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:

8. And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

6. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

Precept:

Nahum 2:11-13

Genesis 10:8-12

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#46994 Jan 14, 2013
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: do you have an origional or authentic scroll, to verify your claim? but evidence suggests, that all official scriptures, were written in tetragrammen eevreet (almost completely without vowels). as it is in, The Athenticated Torah Scrolls.
Tense, or what passes for tense in Hebrew, is dependent on prefixes and suffixes, not vowels. Inflection and imperative can be related to vowels, however.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46996 Jan 14, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
And, considering that the tense of the passage is "past tense", and Isaiah wrote the passage prior to 1 CE, how does this passage relate to someone born after the passage was written?
Who is YashaYahu speaking of Eric? Who do you say bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors?

YashaYahu 53

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of Yahuah revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Yahuah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased Yahuah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahuah shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#46997 Jan 14, 2013
SamBee that is Isaiah 53: Jesus name in Hebrew is
Yeshua Hamashia
Isaiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Footnote: In reading the Prophets, they will skip over and not read Isaiah 53, for it shows the Christ to be a suffering Christ to pay for our sins once and for all. The next time Christ appears will be with a sword, and to put the Devil into chains for 1000 years. During that time the lamb will lie down with the lion, and there will be peace on earth, not before that. Also if you read in Revelations 144,000 of the tribes of Israel will convert the entire world to the Messiah
Jesus Christ, and the Devil will be released for the final battle before there will be a new earth,and a new heaven, and the final judgment.
Maranatha, Come Lord Jesus Come
Dominus Vobiscum
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#46998 Jan 14, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Tense, or what passes for tense in Hebrew, is dependent on prefixes and suffixes, not vowels. Inflection and imperative can be related to vowels, however.
rabbee: sorry but suffixes and prefixes, determine gender, prepositions, and pronouns. they do not determine, past, present, and future tense. and it is on very rare occasions, that vowels are included in TheTorah. resulting in TheTorah, being written in omnitense. since TheTorah is past, present, and future tense at all times. TheTorah is unceasing, in it's application here in IT forever and always. and what happened the last two times gave this to all of you, and your grandmother of all. is actually happening again, without change. cause the whole world is still, commiting the exact same sins.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#46999 Jan 14, 2013
O shyte , here we go again.
52 is connected to 53 by means of the vav, meaning and.
So if 52 is all about Israel anthropomorphized as she, then it continues in 53.
For understanding what 52 is about you need to go back a bit further.

Any failed messiah does not figure whatsoever.
All this annoying pick and choose just looses the proper context.
And you end up with Allah being jesus.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47000 Jan 14, 2013
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: sorry but suffixes and prefixes, determine gender, prepositions, and pronouns. they do not determine, past, present, and future tense. and it is on very rare occasions, that vowels are included in TheTorah. resulting in TheTorah, being written in omnitense. since TheTorah is past, present, and future tense at all times. TheTorah is unceasing, in it's application here in IT forever and always. and what happened the last two times gave this to all of you, and your grandmother of all. is actually happening again, without change. cause the whole world is still, commiting the exact same sins.
rabbee: oh and i left out suffixes, indicate singular and plural forms also.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#47001 Jan 14, 2013
Bruser wrote:
SamBee that is Isaiah 53: Jesus name in Hebrew is
Yeshua Hamashia
Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Footnote: In reading the Prophets, they will skip over and not read Isaiah 53, for it shows the Christ to be a suffering Christ to pay for our sins once and for all. The next time Christ appears will be with a sword, and to put the Devil into chains for 1000 years. During that time the lamb will lie down with the lion, and there will be peace on earth, not before that. Also if you read in Revelations 144,000 of the tribes of Israel will convert the entire world to the Messiah
Jesus Christ, and the Devil will be released for the final battle before there will be a new earth,and a new heaven, and the final judgment.
Maranatha, Come Lord Jesus Come
Dominus Vobiscum
Shalum, His name is Yahusha todah for the reply.

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