Neat auto sales

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cody

Albany, NY

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#1
Jan 21, 2009
 
I'm an out-of-towner considering buying a truck from Neat Auto Sales. I can't find any reviews of this dealership online. I was hoping that some of you locals might share your experiences with this dealership with me. Thanks for any feedback!
James

Nashua, NH

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#2
Aug 26, 2009
 

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Sold a 1997 Toyota 4Runner. Sold as 100% inspection. After 2 return repairs the 4Runner still has leaking real axle seals. An exhaust that was repaired with bondo and grey spray paint. A left front strut with a missing lower bushing. Along with deteriorating front sway bar bushings.

Was told timing belt was 100%- checked myself (am a state certifies state inspector with valid license)- belt is weather cracked and needs immediate replacement.

Typical maintenance items (lube drive line, oil change and air filter) where all ignored.

Left dealer with 'check engine light' on (violating NH state inspection laws). Diagnosed and replaced O2 sensor myself - dealer only re-imbursed $80 of $114 spent for new O2 sensor.

Complained about ABS light - found removed bulb - dealer denies removal. Dealer finally agreed after much fuss to pay for new sensor but would not install. Installed myself and ABS light went out.

Dealer sold vehicle with a worn out key that would only open passenger door and start vehicle. Had a new key cut from VIN at dealer - everything that previously did not work (drivers door, rear tailgate and glove box) now all work. This was only after removing lube straw bits that owner admits to breaking in drivers door lock.

Was told that dealer already LOST money on deal and was not willing to work with me on remaining repairs. I have filed complaints with NH BBB, NH Attorney General and NH DOT (for inspection related issues).

After 1 week of driving (perhaps 400-500 miles) noted that brake light came on and stayed on due to low fluid. Found rotted brake line leaking in rear (another State Inspection item)- replaced myself at a cost of $15 and 2 hours my time.

I would NOT recommend buying a vehicle from this dealer at this time. The state certified mechanic has no diagnostic skills and was dependent on my diagnosis for repair of ABS and blocked rear axle vent.

I am now stuck replacing and repairing at my cost even though it was sold 100% inspected.
Neat Auto Sales

Manchester, NH

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#3
Sep 4, 2009
 

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Neat Auto Sales, 15 years in business, offers customers 100% of their money back if they are not 100% satisfied with their truck or car. This gentleman was offered 100% of his money back 3 times during the weeks that followed his purchase. All 3 times he declined. We offered to repair what he was unhappy with and gave him money for parts without seeing a receipt. No one could do more for a customer.
The vehicle is a 1997 4Runner with 143k miles. It is not a new (or newer) truck. We put on it the following: 4 new tires, rear struts, front brakes (including pads, calipers, rotors), rear axle seals and did an oil change. The customerís Bill of Sale stated that he could have 100% of his deposit refunded if he was not satisfied on the test drive (after the truck was inspected). The customer drove the truck and decided to purchase it. At the time, he stated that since he was a certified mechanic he would fix the driversí side door lock himself.
The timing belt had been replaced prior to us buying it. The owner showed the customer the sticker located in the engine frame compartment which shows the date and the mileage truck had when it was replaced. We did not state its condition since we did not look at it.
When the customer came back to us the first time he was complained to the owner. He told him about the O2 sensor and that the light had come on, he said that he had replaced it and agreed to be reimbursed our cost or $80.00. Never did he provide us with a receipt showing he spent $114 nor did he show us proof of replacing it at all (by providing us the worn part). For anyone who does not know, an Oxygen Sensor (or O2 sensor) measures the mixture of gases emitted from the engine. Therefore, a vehicle with a bad O2 sensor cannot pass NH Inspection and Emissions test (which is an electronic test Ö a certified computer from the State is hooked directly to the vehicle to ensure proper readings). Our point here is that the vehicle could not have left our lot with a bad sensor and a sticker; therefore the check engine light was not on when the customer drove off the lot. The sensor was fine. But we didnít argue with the customer, we simply refunded his money. At this point, as well, we suggested giving him his money back. He declined.
A week later the customer called. He said that both of the new rear seals were leaking and the exhaust was leaking. At this point, we asked him, again, if heíd like his money back, all of it. He said that it wasnít an option. He suspected that the vent for the seals was blocked and agreed to let us fix the leaks. Our mechanic verified that the seals were fine (brand new) and cleaned the vents. The exhaust leak was welded and a coating of exhaust gasket sealant was applied (which to someone not in the automotive business looks like bondo).
He contacted us again stating that while he was checking every bulb in the truck he found that the ABS light was out and accused us of shutting it off because when he replaced it, it went on. We bought him a new sensor ($190) which he said he would install.
The final time he contacted us, he said that the seals and the exhaust were still leaking and told us that he wasnít satisfied. We told him that we wanted to give him his money back and/or do whatever he wanted. He refused and told us that he contacted the BBB, Attorney General and NH DOT.
Through this scenario, anyone can see that we bend over backwards to keep our customers happy and do whatever we can to have them leave our store 100% satisfied.
James

Nashua, NH

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#4
Sep 11, 2009
 

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Receipts where brought in and shown to the mechanic and a secretary there. The O2 sensor could easily been seen as replaced (I also brought the old part in to show). When I told the mechanic that the rear axle seals where leaking and that most likely cause of seals leaking after replacement was due to a plugged rear axle vent (which it was). The mechanic told me that he was only going to replace the vent and not the seals. He did not even bother to clean the brake shoes of oil - I checked the rear brakes after a 10 mile drive back home.
As for the check engine light on not passing NH State Inspection - that is true. On a 1997 vehicle the battery can be disconnected for 10 seconds, this clears the light (and code), thus passing inspection. I know that this turns out the light until the code comes back (in some cases like the O2 sensor certain criterea must be met before the light comes back on, such as speeds above 25mph sustained for more than 10 minutes).
As for the ABS light being on the bulb was pulled previous to my pick-up of the vehicle (I am not saying that Neat Auto Sales did this) but if a vehicle is equipped with ABS State Law requires that it works (there are specific laws that say that the ABS light is to come on for 3 seconds and then go out)- Frank (one of the owners) argued with me for 20+ minutes saying that the vehicle was equipped with ABS but it was not required to work. This contradicts NH State Inspection law SAF-C 3212.02 section (a), subsection (4) part e.
I was never asking for anything but what was advertised (a 100% inspectable vehicle). I called and left 4 messages for the owner Frank to contact me regarding these items over the course of 2 weeks. I only got a reply when the BBB, AG and NH State Inspectors where mentioned in my last message - and that reply was 3 days after my last call.
Neat Auto Sales

Manchester, NH

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#5
Sep 14, 2009
 

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The Better Business Bureau has since discharged the above customer's complaint because our "company has made every effort in an attempt to resolve this issue."
Greg

Yerevan, Armenia

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#6
Sep 24, 2009
 

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I'm not an American (I live in Armenia), but guess my comments will be valuable for future Neat Auto Sales clients.
My friend bought a car from them (Honda Accord 2001 model) last May and sent to me. The car was advertised as "Fully Inspected", but when I got it I started to think that the meaning of the "fully inspected" differs from what I expected. Will try to explain:
1. I don't want to mention a lot of very bad quality paint work done on the car body (I guess now that car exterior is not so important for Americans???). But to buy for $6700 a car with front passenger seat back cover bandaged by rubber ribbon? Meanwhile I guess fixing it using two plastic clips should cost somewhere aroung $2.
2. Right safety belt for rear passenger: there is no locking element at all! Then how that car passed US security inspection???
3. The car has no service records at all. Then how potential client can be guaranteed the car was "Fully Inspected"? Few days ago I requested from dealer some info about maintenace done on the car (e.g. when was changed AT fluid)- no response! Also I asked them how can they facilitate with duplication of ignition key (the car had only one key instead of three, and no remote keyless at all)- again no response:-(
OK, they think if car is out of US, they can forget about it? Well, a lot of Armenian people doing their businees buying cars from US, make it in Eastern States of US. And I will do all my best to warn them: Do not buy cars from Neat Auto Sales which is very ill-disposed to his clients!!!

Bye.
James

Nashua, NH

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#7
Sep 24, 2009
 
Greg, appearance of the vehicle is important to most Americans.

There is a set of rules that are very simple to follow for a '100% inspectected car'- the link for the NH State Inspection rules is here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/Rules/saf-c32...

The rules are long and drawn out - but very specific.

Doing sub-par work is common among mechanics here in the US - usually places like Neat Auto Sales have minimal mechanics (at minimal pay) with more work than they can handle. Not to mention that the mechanic has to be proficient with all makes and models (something that the mechanic at Neat Auto Sales is not - these are words straight from Frank Arciniegas - listed as an co-owner).

The safety belt system is covered by Honda for the lifetime of the vehicle (I know I was a factory trained certified Honda tech). The NH State inspection laws are also very clear that the seat belts have to work - a miss seat belt receiver DOES NOT pass NH State inspection.

As for service records - that is a tough call. Neat Auto Sales did show me a 'Car Fax' report that the vehicle was never in an accident - but unless the owner left records behind for Neat Auto Sales, their hands are tied on that issue.

I also had problems with keys for the vehicle. My key was a standard no security key so I was easily able to have the dealer cut a new key from the VIN - at my cost.

As for the dealer not returning calls or letters this seems to be standard operating procedure for them once they have your money. I have had to file complaints with the Better Business Bureau (they did nothing to mediate and close the case in favor of Neat Auto Sales). I also have a complaint in with the State Attorney General. I will also be opening a case with the NH State Inspectors DOT for the neglected Inspection items.

I agree with you completely Greg
Greg

Yerevan, Armenia

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#8
Sep 24, 2009
 

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James, most of all I'm frustrated that practically all issues described by me are covered by Honda FREE OF CHARGE: even the stupid two-pence issue with broken seat cover has Honda Service Bulletin record to fix it for free by Honda (same is for seat belts, especially rear-right). And my car is definitely covered by those (according to VIN number). But, as you see, guys at NEAT "didn't know" about that!
I even do not mention the MOST dangerous issue with driver's airbag inflator, which can kill the driver when exploding! This is also well known issue which is covered by relevant Honda recall!
As for service records: I just expected their info about what they did on the car except engine oil change... if they do not have service records from previous owner, then I guess they should at least check some way the condition of the car (especially liquids, oils) and provide relevant proofs to potential customer (and not only the stupid paper from Carfax)... BTW, one day I tried to buy another Accord from West Chester/PA (Infiniti of WestChester)- they had a lot of papers about the car condition checked-out by THEIR Mechanics (liquids condition, brakes/rotors condition, tires left, etc). So I wrongly started to think that dealers in the state which is famous for his good reputation (New Hampshire) will be at least on the same level of quality:-(
As for key duplication: unfortunatelly this model has a key with built-in immobilizer, and in my country it is very expensive to duplicate such keys- that was the reason why I asked NEAT to help me:-((( Anyway, it's pity to get only one key with the car which should have 3 keys plus 2 remotes from factory...

So, you can see the reasons of my frustration...
James

Nashua, NH

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#9
Sep 24, 2009
 

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Greg, you sound like you got the shaft like I did. I have had to replace both front struts, both rear axle seals, rear brake shoes (due to axle fluid leak), O2 sensor (reimbursed 80 of 115 dollars + NONE of my time), ABS sensor (paid for by N.A.S.- but they would not install even though it is a required item for NH State Inspection (see SI manual above SAF 3212.04), plate light lens missing (another SI item) and an exterior corner lamp. This is not to mention the power antenna mast, heater knob buttons and interior lights (dash and other) that I have replaced and not EVER asked N.A.S. for reimbursement on. I have had to recharge the A/C, replace a steering rack boot, get an alignment (because N.A.S. does not have an alignment rack) as well as several other minor items that have taken up my usually free weekends.

You are correct - if the tech had any knowledge he could use the internet to find the same information that you have found regarding warrenty/recall items.

My vehicle was the same with regular maintenance items. I had to do an oil change (filter was caked with dirt - wasn't changed recently). The air filter was practically plugged with dirth and leaves. The drive shats (4wd) where not lubed. Driving to work one day I got a code for a mis-fire on cylinder #3. I checked the plugs and found the completely wrong type of plug in the motor.

When I worked as an ASE Master certified/Honda Factory trained technician - my dealer (multiple dealers that i worked at) had a check-list that I had to go through when checking out used cars anything that came back that I said was good I would end up doing the work for free - dealer loosing money by my time being used for free work, dealer loosing money on parts that I should have noted - it almost meant I worked for free - that was our price for quality.

I understand your plight with the key duplication. Here in the states some dealers have electronic duplicators that can 'copy' your key's RF id and then they cut it - it is usually 1/2 the price and requires no appointment with a mechanic.

I can totally understand your frustrations. I am a certified mechanic with my own tools and compressor - but there is still my time and my cost of parts (sometimes I get a good deal from parts stores - but it will never be re-couped).
James

Nashua, NH

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#10
Sep 25, 2009
 

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I meant SAF-C 3212.02 section (a), subsection (4) part e for the ABS requirement.

Also:

SAF-C 3212.02 section (a), subsection (12) and (13) for contaminated brake linings.

SAF-C 3212.02 section (a), subsection (17) for leaking brake line (line to rear brakes was rotted and leaking).

SAF-C 3215.04 section (a), subsection (8) for the hanging plate light that Charlie the mechanic pointed out to me on vehicle p/u.

SAF-C 3215.04 section (a), subsection (9) for the missing plate light cover, again Charlie the mechanic pointed this out.

SAF-C 3217.04 section (a), subsection (2) for the missing left outside mirror bolts - 3 bolts, 1 missing - 2 loose.

SAF-C 3217.12 section (a), subsection (2) for the torn rear wiper blade.

SAF-C 3218.01 section (d), subsection (2),(3) and (4) for leaking exhaust and missing exhaust hangers.

SAF-C 3222.03 sections (a),(b) and (c) for 'check engine light'

SAF-C 3222,05 section (a), subsections (1),(2) and (3) for no printed report of why check engine light was on (Charlie, the mechanic, told me that he had to replace a 'component' and clear the code) no other information given.

This list of violated State Inspection regulations does not include the fact that the rear axle bump stop is missing (could not find the law pertaining to this in short order).

This station should be checked out by the State DOT to make sure that they comply with the rules and regulations set by the State of NH.
James

Nashua, NH

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#11
Sep 26, 2009
 

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I have ALL receipts from parts mentioned - not including my labor. At no time did Neat Auto Sales asked me for receipts - even though I showed them and still have them as documentation. Neat Auto Sales I lying about being shown receipts - Charlie (mechanic) and Allayne (secretary I assume) where shown worn parts as well as receipts. Maybe Mr Frank Arciniegas was not aware that his mechanic and secretary had seen the parts and receipts - but they were shown. Perhaps he should do his own work instead or relying on sub-par employees for information. Copies of receipts and evidence of replaced parts could easily be made/seen.
Neat Auto Sales

Brattleboro, VT

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#12
Sep 27, 2009
 

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Greg wrote:
I'm not an American (I live in Armenia), but guess my comments will be valuable for future Neat Auto Sales clients.
My friend bought a car from them (Honda Accord 2001 model) last May and sent to me. The car was advertised as "Fully Inspected", but when I got it I started to think that the meaning of the "fully inspected" differs from what I expected. Will try to explain:
1. I don't want to mention a lot of very bad quality paint work done on the car body (I guess now that car exterior is not so important for Americans???). But to buy for $6700 a car with front passenger seat back cover bandaged by rubber ribbon? Meanwhile I guess fixing it using two plastic clips should cost somewhere aroung $2.
2. Right safety belt for rear passenger: there is no locking element at all! Then how that car passed US security inspection???
3. The car has no service records at all. Then how potential client can be guaranteed the car was "Fully Inspected"? Few days ago I requested from dealer some info about maintenace done on the car (e.g. when was changed AT fluid)- no response! Also I asked them how can they facilitate with duplication of ignition key (the car had only one key instead of three, and no remote keyless at all)- again no response:-(
OK, they think if car is out of US, they can forget about it? Well, a lot of Armenian people doing their businees buying cars from US, make it in Eastern States of US. And I will do all my best to warn them: Do not buy cars from Neat Auto Sales which is very ill-disposed to his clients!!!
Bye.
To: Greg for Armenia
When did you call and who did you talk to asking for a copy of the keys and to complain about the seat belt???Your english is perfect so I dont think speaking was an issue.
In all fearness (I am sure is the same in Armenia) we call and talk to someone directly. It is easy to hide behind a keyboard an place comments from far away. Most people understand that a car thats has been on the road for 8 or 12 years is not free of flaws.
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PLACE ANY NEGATIVE COMMENTS YOU WANT BUT SHOULD AT LEAST have had your "friend" call us about it????
Greg

Yerevan, Armenia

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#13
Sep 27, 2009
 

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From your reaction I made a conclusion that I was right when rating your company negatively...
Well, I didn't call you- that's right (because my friend didn't pay attention on existing issues telling me this is a good car); resulted I was surprised by lot of issues only when opened the door of container in Armenia.
But then how would you explain that your people refused to answer my request via email? You really think that I'm brave behind the keyboard? I'm simply a person expecting a normal answers to my requests, that's why before mailing to this forum I contacted firstly your Merrimack office via email... I guess rather you're brave so much to not answer your clients knowing that they are out of US, huh?
And please note that my car is not 8-12 years old, but 8 years, and car age has no connection with safety belt absence, I guess...
Neat Auto

Manchester, NH

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#14
Oct 5, 2009
 

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Greg

No,. My issue is that I 1st learned about your issue in this forum. You are mistaken about contacting us through email.There is no e mail.
It is unfair to complain about an issue that I have no way of fixing because the car is overseas. The middle person should have checked and brought it back before putting it in the container. I am sure he is making money is the least he could have done.

2nd. You said that you ask us about service records. Again no record of you having e mail anything. But we as a used car dealer dont have the records if the original owner doesnt turn them in.
Send me the VIN# and I will be able to get a copy of the key and the seat belt catch you need from the Honda dealer.(I will need your address too)

In regards of the poor paint job... We dont paint them.The car was like that. You friend fail to rate the paint job to you.

Unless you like to communicate through this forum,
but here is our email address (recheck it)
salesmanager@neatautosales.com
Greg

Yerevan, Armenia

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#15
Oct 5, 2009
 
Well, this time I got more valuable feedback... though, when you blame me for using email, I can't accept and understand it; this is a service provided by you to customers on your official site (please, re-check then www.neatautosales.com ->Contact menu item: maybe something failed there when generating emails?).
OK, I'm moving to contact you directly via provided email address... hoping to have later a chance to add positive comment in the forum too.
James

Nashua, NH

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#16
Oct 6, 2009
 
I can totally agree with NAS about the repair records (like I had mentioned before). I don't know how it is in Turkey, but in the US there are thousands of independent dealers/garages - keeping everyone on the same system would wreak havoc on what is already out there.

As for NAS not receiving your e-mails - I might blame the web designer of their web page before I blame them - buth either is possible. Possibly your friend could have contacted them from the US?

As for sub-par work and missed safety items - my case is still up for debate with the Attorney General and the the NH State DOT. So far only the BBB has replied without much research/questioning and in favor of NAS - but the BBB are not well versed in automotive speak - so I really didn't expect a whole lot from them.

Good luck with your case Greg. I feel that you won't be getting your key anytime soon - and if you do it may turn the ignition/locks - but will NOT start your car as the key and the car have to be together to be programmed (this is from a Honda Factory trained tech).
Greg

Yerevan, Armenia

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#17
Oct 16, 2009
 
Hi James,

Thank you for comments, they were useful...
Finally, working on-line with NAS sales manager, we were able to solve some of my issues, though you were right in my biggest issue with key duplication: we didn't resolve it (the car MUST BE at dealeship). Though, this is bit strange: if Honda Owner's Manual says that for each new car with keys is provided a special plastic tab with ID number allowing key duplication if needed- that means anyway some numerical identification way exists to make duplication without car presence.
Anyway, NAS cordially proposed me a remote fob (free of charge) as temporary solution... That was really nice.
Also the issue with safety belt was resolved easily: I dismounted the rear seat- and belt catch was under it!
So, that's the story... the lack of communication created issues, and now guess I should wait untill opening of Honda official dealership in Armenia to get a key (James, BTW I'm in Armenia, not Turkey!:-)))).
Thank you for feedback on the forum, and thanks to NAS staff too for positive reaction and understanding.
Best regards,
Greg
James

Nashua, NH

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#18
Oct 16, 2009
 
Greg,

The keys for most of these 'chip' keys contain a simple RFID - like you would find in a new DVD. That RFID has to be associated with the car - to do this you need special equipment that usually only dealers have. When I worked at the Honda dealer it was about $120-$140 for a key (addition keys where about $60-$70 less due to duplicated labor). I did work at one dealer that had a machine that could read the 'good' key and duplicate the RFID to the new key - this was subsequently less (the keys go for about $20-$30)- but you where still charged for some labor (usually about $20). Sorry about the mis-location - for some reason I had remembered Turkey and didn't check before I typed. I hope this is not some insult in Armenia.
Greg

Yerevan, Armenia

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#19
Oct 18, 2009
 
Hi James,

No problem on Turkey-Armenia mess, I just wanted to correct you... for the future:-))) And no insult, especially now, when both countries decided to do some mutually peaceful steps opening the border, etc.
About keys: here some clever mechanics also can do duplication, but for very unreasonable price- around $350... that was the issue:-(

All the best,
Greg
george

Concord, NH

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#20
Oct 23, 2009
 
Well I was considering purchasing a truck from Neatautosales, but from the discussion on this board I'm going to have to reconsider this. Too bad, I really liked the truck I saw but I would rather have dealings with a more reputable business.

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