Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 159568 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128653 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
More of the same:
"A provocative new study says that while athletes continue to be role models, and involvement in organized sports can shape a child's character, the influences might not always be positive.
In fact, the study by an American ethics centre says children involved in sports are more likely to cheat in school, are learning from their coaches how to best cut corners and are more open to forms of bullying as a way to motivate people."
http://www.thestar.com/news/2007/03/05/kids_i...
The same question comes to mind with each of the cases you post. Just how would the system you wish for end or even lower corruption and cheating?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128656 Apr 19, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
We're being told that we can't have good without evil.
I wonder what the proportions of good and evil have to be for this status quo,to be maintained.
Does 50% of everything have to be evil to keep the equilibrium?
I guess this also means that evil will exist in heaven.
Well Christ Warrior says god has the power to manipulate that need for evil so heaven can be evil free.
So it is god who is making for evil, if his ideas were to be true.

It is pretty clear to me this Utopia of heaven is the lure. Of course their is zero evidence of the Utopia and it defies all nature as we know it.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128657 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
I was simply denied admission to college. It had nothing to do with a scholarship.
Oh, well I guess I will have to go back and reread your posts.
Was this just one school or did you get rejected from several? Did you apply to only one? Did you give up when you were denied?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128658 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Rising to the top on one's ability alone is virtually impossible in today's public schools. Public education system is so corrupt, so riddled with cheating, favoritism, discrimination of various kinds that ability does not matter.
It is not a matter of what you know or how smart you are, it is who you know and whose ass you are willing to lick.
I am guessing this simply your personal perception, and you have no data to support your position?

And in case you are not aware, boot licking is pretty standard practice in private schools and many other private businesses.
You have yet to show evidence of how your system would solve the problems of corruption? Heck, you have not even shown the logic.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128659 Apr 19, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
There is overwhelming evidence of God everywhere.
You are just a closed minded bigot afraid of the Truth
Then faith is not required?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128660 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
Another example of institutional corruption in public education:
“On October 22,[2013] the House passed a bill that would bar teachers and staffers who were convicted of a sexual offense or violent crime from working with children in the public schools; it passed by voice vote and was sent to the Senate where it has yet to find a sponsor. It would also require schools to check state and federal criminal records when hiring. Opposed to the bill were the two major teachers' unions, the National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers…”
http://www.newsmax.com/BillDonohue/Sex-Abuse-...
And what would prevent these people from working in private schools?
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128661 Apr 19, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>The same question comes to mind with each of the cases you post. Just how would the system you wish for end or even lower corruption and cheating?
I think I answered that question in this statement:

"And I'll sue 'em!" you say. Well, even if you do and win, which is not likely, it will do absolutely no damage to the institution. A lawsuit like that would put a private school out of business, but all the public education mafia will do is pass the bill on to the taxpayers. Oh, they might sacrifice as scapegoat teacher or administrator, maybe write a few meaningless rules into some handbook, but the public education mafia itself will go on with business as usual.

The threat of devastating losses in lawsuits would compel the owner-operators of private schools to keep a much tighter reign on the situation. If they did not, then a devastating lawsuit would bankrupt their institution and shut it down. There is no such negative incentive for public schools or school boards. Someone can sue "Johnnie Doe v. School Board" but the suit is really "Johnnie Doe v. the Taxpayers" of the local school district. Even if the school board loses, the institution does not go out of business. The bill is just passed on to the taxpayers.

If there was a real threat of lawsuits destroying an institution, that institution's stockholders would and could demand that management keep corruption, cheating, etc. out of it. The taxpayers, unlike stockholders, do not have that power. Taxpayers really have no control over the institution at all, but are merely its captive financial backers and insurers.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128662 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt you did that 15 years ago. No doubt your son is doing to today.
No doubt? A couple of posts ago, you were saying I was a liar and there is no way to get ahead in public schools. That sure changed quickly.
Libertarian wrote:
Problem is you and he did (and are doing) it on my tax bill.
It's not on your bill. My parents payed property taxes while I was in school and I pay property taxes now.
Libertarian wrote:
And for every "success" story like the one you tell for yourself, I can produce ten horror stories of kids that were shafted by the corrupt system in one way or another.
No, you can't. That's why a story about corruption is news, but a kid getting good grades and getting ahead isn't. The latter happens millions of times a year.
Libertarian wrote:
Just wait until your son is forced to do a year's worth of homework for a star football player with an IQ of 90 or below. Or worse, is forced to take the SAT for him.
Neither will happen. My son will do his own homework to advance himself. He is not going to risk his academic career for someone else to cheat.
Libertarian wrote:
And then report it and make a big problem for the administration. See how fast he gets shafted then. You'll get that little talking to that says, "You make this into a problem, and we'll see to it that your son never sets foot in a college."
They have no power to do that. My son will have excellent grades, extracurricular activities, and do well on standardized tests. He will get into college just fine.
Libertarian wrote:
And believe me, it is not an empty threat. They can do it. All it takes is a few little comments to the right people, a few "mistakes" with the paperwork, a few key things from the high school that arrive at the college admissions office a few days after the deadline.
Please. We can request transcripts ourselves and get them well before any deadline dates. The window for applying to colleges is very wide.
Libertarian wrote:
"And I'll sue 'em!" you say. Well, even if you do and win, which is not likely, it will do absolutely no damage to the institution. A lawsuit like that would put a private school out of business, but all the public education mafia will do is pass the bill on to the taxpayers. Oh, they might sacrifice as scapegoat teacher or administrator
So, his principle is going to risk his entire career on making sure my son helps someone cheat? I don't think so.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128663 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
No. I am not 15-22. Try tripling the 22 and then deduct 11.
Male. White.
I was forced to go to public schools and hated every damned minute of it.
Middle to upper middle class. Self made. Came from a poor family. Neither parent had a high school diploma but both were intelligent people. Both had self-educated themselves. When I was a kid we had a geology professor for a neighbor. I dad bet him $100 that he could take any geology test that he gave his college students, at any level, and pass it with at least a B. He gave my dad one for freshmen. Grade: A. 100 percent. Professor lost $100. Dad gave him the chance to get his money back by giving him one for upper level course. Again: Grade A. Professor lost another $100.
Professor then asked, "Why the hell didn't you go to college and become a professor?"
My father answered, "Why? I make twice what you do now."
Did he frame the test and put it on the wall? Did you ever see this test, or do you just have faith your father never fudges the figures?
I am not saying it is not possible to self educate, but if your poster debacle is any indication, I feel stretches of truth are par for the course here.
Oh, and I really do not buy your claim about being rejected from all schools applied, if you had such wonderful grades.
You see, atheists do not just blindly accept claims.
Maybe if you could show me a poster that you described and show it is hanging in a public school, you would be trusted a bit more.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128664 Apr 19, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>And what would prevent these people from working in private schools?
See previous.

The treat of devastating lawsuits and loss of business if parents found out that their school was employing such people would compel the private school's stockholders and management to screen them out.

As I have said, lawsuits are not a threat to the existence of a tax funded private school. I have never heard of a judge actually ordering any business that lost a lawsuit shut down. The damages are monetary. Bankruptcy is what actually shuts it down. That cannot happen to a public school because it simply passes the loss on to the taxpayers. A public school, as an institution, is not threatened with going broke through loss of business either. Parents are compelled by law to send their children there.

Public schools are captive to the teachers' unions because of the certification process for public school teachers. Private schools on the other hand, in most states, do not have to meet those certification standards. They can hire whoever they want to hire. That frees them from the grip of the unions.

Question I have to ask is why do the teachers' unions oppose a law intended to keep sex offenders out of the classrooms?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128665 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I answered that question in this statement:
"And I'll sue 'em!" you say. Well, even if you do and win, which is not likely, it will do absolutely no damage to the institution. A lawsuit like that would put a private school out of business, but all the public education mafia will do is pass the bill on to the taxpayers. Oh, they might sacrifice as scapegoat teacher or administrator, maybe write a few meaningless rules into some handbook, but the public education mafia itself will go on with business as usual.
The threat of devastating losses in lawsuits would compel the owner-operators of private schools to keep a much tighter reign on the situation. If they did not, then a devastating lawsuit would bankrupt their institution and shut it down. There is no such negative incentive for public schools or school boards. Someone can sue "Johnnie Doe v. School Board" but the suit is really "Johnnie Doe v. the Taxpayers" of the local school district. Even if the school board loses, the institution does not go out of business. The bill is just passed on to the taxpayers.
If there was a real threat of lawsuits destroying an institution, that institution's stockholders would and could demand that management keep corruption, cheating, etc. out of it. The taxpayers, unlike stockholders, do not have that power. Taxpayers really have no control over the institution at all, but are merely its captive financial backers and insurers.
And what law would be broken to base a law suit upon?
Is the libertarian world one of more law suits than today?
Would you have been able to sue for not admitting you to college? Did you not ever apply to a private college?
Sorry, but I really do not see a law suit as sticking in the cases you cited.
Do you have examples of law suits to private schools that are of the sort of grievances you have posted? Could you sue for someone cheating?
In the libertarian world, would their have to be a bunch of new laws regulating private schools?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128666 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
t
Public schools are captive to the teachers' unions because of the certification process for public school teachers. Private schools on the other hand, in most states, do not have to meet those certification standards. They can hire whoever they want to hire. That frees them from the grip of the unions.
Question I have to ask is why do the teachers' unions oppose a law intended to keep sex offenders out of the classrooms?
Sex offenders could be hired by private schools. Again, what changes in the private school world Utopia you seem to feel will become if public schooling ends? Bitching about public schools means nothing if you cannot show how your system fixes the issue. You keep failing to do this. You cannot sue a private school for hiring a sex offender.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128667 Apr 19, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
No, you can't. That's why a story about corruption is news, but a kid getting good grades and getting ahead isn't. The latter happens millions of times a year.
<quoted text>
Neither will happen. My son will do his own homework to advance himself. He is not going to risk his academic career for someone else to cheat.
<quoted text>
They have no power to do that. My son will have excellent grades, extracurricular activities, and do well on standardized tests. He will get into college just fine.
<quoted text>
So, his principle is going to risk his entire career on making sure my son helps someone cheat? I don't think so.
That's what they all think until it happens. Try this scenario: Star football player is about to get flunked off the team that is headed to the state championship. Football coach who also teaches tells your son, "You will do his homework, go somewhere else and take the SAT ffor him (harder today, but 40 years ago they did not even ask for photo ID), or you will fail my class - which you have to pass to graduate."

Then you find out and tell the principal, whereupon you get the warning. All he is interested in is keeping it from becoming public knowledge.

You go over his head and...get the same warning.

Ignore that warning and I can guarantee you that your son will come out the loser.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128668 Apr 19, 2014
That will be especially true if he actually did what he was told to do before he tells you about it.

Guarantee you that that on his record will keep him out of any college that finds out about it -- and somebody in the local public school mafia will be sure that they do.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#128669 Apr 19, 2014
Lehi wrote:
I have studied Christianity for 50 + years and joined many different sects of Christianity in search for total truth.

After joining the LDS Church, I found out what it was to be a true Christian and serve the Lord with all your might, mind, and strength and I'm not saying you can't find and do that anywhere else. I have never seen any Christian denomination serve the Lord as devoutly as Mormons do. Sad to say, some Mormons don't.

In all other Christian denominations I never had to deal with so much hatred from other groups as I have now. I have spent the last 19 years defending my beliefs from those, who on the basis of rumor only are constantly trying to tear me down.

I no longer just believe, I now KNOW that God exists. I got my foundation of the gospel of Jesus the Christ from the pages of the Bible at the feet of my Baptist grandparents in 1959.

There will be people of all walks enter into the Kingdom of God because He looks upon the hearts of man but as for a Christian church you won't find any better than the LDS.

A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit just as a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

To say that Mormons aren't Christian is an outright lie and has put you in a place of bearing false witness and unrighteous judgment. Do you know how serious that is? If you took your salvation seriously, you would never cease seeking the truth for yourself.
Thank you for sharing this

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#128670 Apr 19, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>So we agree that fruits are a good analogy for organized religion. The outside seems healthy, tasty and sweet, but the seeds will often make you sick.
Not such a good analogy, as most seeds are not meant to be eaten

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128671 Apr 19, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt? A couple of posts ago, you were saying I was a liar and there is no way to get ahead in public schools. That sure changed quickly.
<quoted text>
It's not on your bill. My parents payed property taxes while I was in school and I pay property taxes now.
<quoted text>
No, you can't. That's why a story about corruption is news, but a kid getting good grades and getting ahead isn't. The latter happens millions of times a year.
<quoted text>
Neither will happen. My son will do his own homework to advance himself. He is not going to risk his academic career for someone else to cheat.
<quoted text>
They have no power to do that. My son will have excellent grades, extracurricular activities, and do well on standardized tests. He will get into college just fine.
<quoted text>
Please. We can request transcripts ourselves and get them well before any deadline dates. The window for applying to colleges is very wide.
<quoted text>
So, his principle is going to risk his entire career on making sure my son helps someone cheat? I don't think so.
Maybe the football coach could see your massive paranoia of the system, and he used that to get you to help his boys. He knew you would be to scared to do anything about it.
You licked his boots due to your paranoia. Maybe you should have asked for him to help you into college?
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128672 Apr 19, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Sex offenders could be hired by private schools. Again, what changes in the private school world Utopia you seem to feel will become if public schooling ends? Bitching about public schools means nothing if you cannot show how your system fixes the issue. You keep failing to do this. You cannot sue a private school for hiring a sex offender.
The treat of devastating lawsuits and loss of business if parents found out that their school was employing such people would compel the private school's stockholders and management to screen them out.

What part of this sentence can you not read and understand?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128673 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what they all think until it happens. Try this scenario: Star football player is about to get flunked off the team that is headed to the state championship. Football coach who also teaches tells your son, "You will do his homework, go somewhere else and take the SAT ffor him (harder today, but 40 years ago they did not even ask for photo ID), or you will fail my class - which you have to pass to graduate."
Then you find out and tell the principal, whereupon you get the warning. All he is interested in is keeping it from becoming public knowledge.
You go over his head and...get the same warning.
Ignore that warning and I can guarantee you that your son will come out the loser.
Back in the good old days it might have been easier to do. And back in the good old days, the good old boy system was a very common. But our system puts in mechanisms to help prevent this from happening, and that is why it is so hard to do today.
BTW, the good old boy system still exists in private schools.
Bitching about a particular system is not helping you sell your system, if you cannot show just how your system would prevent this same thing from occurring?

If you are trying to sell a car, tell me what is good about the car, not what sucks about a different car.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128674 Apr 19, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what they all think until it happens. Try this scenario: Star football player is about to get flunked off the team that is headed to the state championship. Football coach who also teaches tells your son, "You will do his homework, go somewhere else and take the SAT ffor him (harder today, but 40 years ago they did not even ask for photo ID), or you will fail my class - which you have to pass to graduate."
Easy. Head to the principle.
Libertarian wrote:
Then you find out and tell the principal, whereupon you get the warning. All he is interested in is keeping it from becoming public knowledge.
Hi Principle, you better fire this teacher or I'm going to the media and to the district superintendent and you'll be fired too.
Libertarian wrote:
You go over his head and...get the same warning.
lol, yeah. The teacher, principle, and superintendent are all going to destroy their careers. The superintendent doesn't have anything to gain by one school having a better football record. In fact, he is above the other rival district schools which have the exact opposite interest.

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