Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149952 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104053 May 18, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I studied with a Hindu for 2 years. Best effort I could give it.
But if you did not feel their gods, you were not studying it correctly. You either did not understand the writings or your heart was closed to the gods.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#104054 May 18, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
God's miracles can only be duplicated by God.
That is why science will never be able to duplicate the miracle of life.
Their futile search has been unproductive,as you well know.
See articles posted below
Evolutionist Richard Lewontin in The New York Review, January, 1997, page 31:
We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of the failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so-stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.
Recently a molecular biologist working on identifying genetic controls for diseases was interviewed by George Caylor of The Ledger, Lynchburg, Virginia. His article entitled, "The Biologist," appeared on February 17, 2000. I received permission to reproduce parts of the interview here, as a conversation between "G" (the interviewer) and "J" (the molecular biologist). It began by discussing the complexity of human code.
J: "I'm a bit like an editor, trying to find a spelling mistake inside a document larger than four complete sets of Encyclopedia Britanica."
G: "Do you believe that the information evolved?"
J: "George, nobody I know in my profession believes it evolved. It was engineered by 'genius beyond genius,' and such information could not have been written any other way. The paper and ink did not write the book! Knowing what we know, it is ridiculous to think otherwise."
G: "Have you ever stated that in a public lecture, or in any public writings?"
J: "No. I just say it evolved. To be a molecular biologist requires one to hold on to two insanities at all times. One, it would be insane to believe in evolution when you can see the truth for yourself. Two, it would be insane to say you don't believe in evolution. All government work, research grants, papers, big college lectures—everything would stop. I'd be out of a job, or relegated to the outer fringes where I couldn't earn a decent living."
G: "I hate to say it, but that sounds intellectually dishonest."
J: "The work I do in genetic research is honorable. We will find the cures to many of mankind's worst diseases. But in the meantime, we have to live with the 'elephant in the living room'."
G: "What elephant?"
J: "Creation design. It's like an elephant in the living room. It moves around, takes up an enormous amount of space, loudly trumpets, bumps into us, knocks things over, eats a ton of hay, and smells like an elephant. And yet we have to swear it isn't there
The second part of your post is also bogus. If you go to the Ledger's website and search for the author name George Caylor nothing comes up. That and the fact that the so called biologist is not named throws up a lot of red flags.

And the text reads like a Creationist writing fantasy. I've read MANY things written by biologists. The idea of design is a joke to them. Just ask one about the "design" of the human spine, or sinus, or even the eye.

Read something outside the Creationist propaganda machine. You might learn something interesting about reality.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104055 May 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>But if you did not feel their gods, you were not studying it correctly. You either did not understand the writings or your heart was closed to the gods.
Nice try, but even the guy I studied with said most Hindus just follow tradition and never obtain gratification the way I described Christianity.
Anonymous

Winter Garden, FL

#104056 May 18, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationist propaganda.
First, Richard Lewontin's quote is both incomplete and out of context. The quote comes from his review of Carl Sagan's book "The Demon Haunted World". You have chosen to present the incomplete quote, out of context, to make it sound like this guy is admitting that evolution is wrong but he is forced to play along.
It is dishonest and a lie.
Here:

Didn't god have something to say about liars?
You obviously,are either a careless reader,or lack comprehension.
See what he said ,previous to his quote,and see mwhat he said ,after his quote.Show me what is out of context

With great perception, Sagan sees that there is an impediment to the popular credibility of scientific claims about the world, an impediment that is almost invisible to most scientists. Many of the most fundamental claims of science are against common sense and seem absurd on their face. Do physicists really expect me to accept without serious qualms that the pungent cheese that I had for lunch is really made up of tiny, tasteless, odorless, colorless packets of energy with nothing but empty space between them? Astronomers tell us without apparent embarrassment that they can see stellar events that occurred millions of years ago, whereas we all know that we see things as they happen. When, at the time of the moon landing, a woman in rural Texas was interviewed about the event, she very sensibly refused to believe that the television pictures she had seen had come all the way from the moon, on the grounds that with her antenna she couldn't even get Dallas. What seems absurd depends on one's prejudice. Carl Sagan accepts, as I do, the duality of light, which is at the same time wave and particle, but he thinks that the consubstantiality of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost puts the mystery of the Holy Trinity "in deep trouble." Two's company, but three's a crowd.
----------
QUOTE
Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.
END QUOTE
----------
The mutual exclusion of the material and the demonic has not been true of all cultures and all times. In the great Chinese epic Journey to the West, demons are an alternative form of life, responsible to certain deities, devoted to making trouble for ordinary people, but severely limited. They can be captured, imprisoned, and even killed by someone with superior magic.6 In our own intellectual history, the definitive displacement of divine powers by purely material causes has been a relatively recent changeover, and that icon of modern science, Newton, was at the cusp.

-
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#104057 May 18, 2013
revieleb wrote:
<quoted text>
You obviously,are either a careless reader,or lack comprehension.
See what he said ,previous to his quote,and see mwhat he said ,after his quote.Show me what is out of context
With great perception, Sagan sees that there is an impediment to the popular credibility of scientific claims about the world, an impediment that is almost invisible to most scientists. Many of the most fundamental claims of science are against common sense and seem absurd on their face. Do physicists really expect me to accept without serious qualms that the pungent cheese that I had for lunch is really made up of tiny, tasteless, odorless, colorless packets of energy with nothing but empty space between them? Astronomers tell us without apparent embarrassment that they can see stellar events that occurred millions of years ago, whereas we all know that we see things as they happen. When, at the time of the moon landing, a woman in rural Texas was interviewed about the event, she very sensibly refused to believe that the television pictures she had seen had come all the way from the moon, on the grounds that with her antenna she couldn't even get Dallas. What seems absurd depends on one's prejudice. Carl Sagan accepts, as I do, the duality of light, which is at the same time wave and particle, but he thinks that the consubstantiality of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost puts the mystery of the Holy Trinity "in deep trouble." Two's company, but three's a crowd.
----------
QUOTE
Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.
END QUOTE
----------
The mutual exclusion of the material and the demonic has not been true of all cultures and all times. In the great Chinese epic Journey to the West, demons are an alternative form of life, responsible to certain deities, devoted to making trouble for ordinary people, but severely limited. They can be captured, imprisoned, and even killed by someone with superior magic.6 In our own intellectual history, the definitive displacement of divine powers by purely material causes has been a relatively recent changeover, and that icon of modern science, Newton, was at the cusp.
-
By the way,this is curious,,Not posting from my computer.
So you don't think I was changing nicks,in order to support my views,like some people do...
Research Ceorge Caylor,,,obviously did not do a good job
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#104058 May 18, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the problem evolutionists have is the same one most investigators of the natural world have had since the beginning of history... religious bigotry and organized superstition.
You may think what you want,
I Believe What I Know.
You keep searching among the rocks and bones for something I already found to be real....
That you believe that we are here due to some unexplainable coincident ,is your problem.
That you and others like you, keep searching for an answer,is probably a positive sign.
Hopefully your diligent but misguided search will be rewarded.
Then,we can all rejoice
That I believe there is a creator,based on my personal experiences,is my blessing.......
TheIndependentMa jority

London, KY

#104059 May 18, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>If you wish to prove most tea party members are not pro life, go for it. I will lump where the lumps are. I did say "most", not all. Lumps exist and we have words that describe the lumps.
Political "cults"?

A cult is a cult is a cult..........

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104060 May 18, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try, but even the guy I studied with said most Hindus just follow tradition and never obtain gratification the way I described Christianity.
Not according to most Hindus.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104061 May 18, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
You may think what you want,
I Believe What I Know.
You keep searching among the rocks and bones for something I already found to be real....
That you believe that we are here due to some unexplainable coincident ,is your problem.
That you and others like you, keep searching for an answer,is probably a positive sign.
Hopefully your diligent but misguided search will be rewarded.
Then,we can all rejoice
That I believe there is a creator,based on my personal experiences,is my blessing.......
So ... you are claiming you know the genetic structure of the HIV virus from your bible? That passage must have been deleted because, it is not in there.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#104062 May 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So ... you are claiming you know the genetic structure of the HIV virus from your bible? That passage must have been deleted because, it is not in there.
No,and you know full well what I meant.
Let us not be coy.
I believe that we,as humans,have an inner desire to know from whence we came,how did we get here.
Now,we also know that,because of our human nature,many of us,do not want to know the truth.
So.we still have that inner desire,but,we do not want to create a conflict with our wordly desires.....
Therefore,that desire of wanting to know our roots,becomes submissive to our earthly desires,,,,leading us to search in the wrong places....
Then again,let us say someone believes they have never done anything for which they should feel guilty,based on their self righteousness?
That person may be reluctant to search for an answer that may prove him/her wrong.
That is true with many of us......
We carry this burden of believing we are good,when deep down inside,we know better.
Ultimately,at some point in time,most of us will come face to face with our hypocricy....

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104063 May 18, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
No,and you know full well what I meant.
Let us not be coy.
I believe that we,as humans,have an inner desire to know from whence we came,how did we get here.
Now,we also know that,because of our human nature,many of us,do not want to know the truth.
So.we still have that inner desire,but,we do not want to create a conflict with our wordly desires.....
Therefore,that desire of wanting to know our roots,becomes submissive to our earthly desires,,,,leading us to search in the wrong places....
Then again,let us say someone believes they have never done anything for which they should feel guilty,based on their self righteousness?
That person may be reluctant to search for an answer that may prove him/her wrong.
That is true with many of us......
We carry this burden of believing we are good,when deep down inside,we know better.
Ultimately,at some point in time,most of us will come face to face with our hypocricy....
Wow, okay, so you believe that a child should be tortured forever because of a candybar that the kid's great great grandfather stole from a convenience store just because you think you own that convenience store.

“pervinco per logica”

Since: Feb 12

Eradicate willful ignorance.

#104065 May 18, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
The definition is just fine, whether you choose to accept it or not. You choose to mince words to make it ok to abort, whatever, that's your choice to think that way, I happen to think you are wrong. And in matters of life and death, I choose life.
You're dense. Seriously. I'm not trying to "mince words" (wtf?) or "make it OK to abort", and no definition that uses the same word as is being described is "just fine" for anything as scientific as this (and, truthfully, very little outside of that realm). I just want you to properly define what exactly your argument/position is, yet you will not. So I'll quit trying to get you to. I'll ask other questions that don't involve you actually stating your whole position, since you apparently feel much more comfortable having ample room to dodge.

When is abortion OK? Is it ever fine to terminate a pregnancy after an egg has been fertilized, in what cases, and why? Is an extremely high probability of a short life filled with pain and suffering a better thing than simply having a very short life with no pain and suffering? Is the body, life, and livelihood of a pregnant rape victim more or less important than a cluster of a few hundred cells sitting in her uterine wall?
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
The foundation of science is observation, data collection, theory, criticism/review, and revision.
Well,they've done all that and still do not have an answer.
I do not need to look any further. I and millions of others have found our answer.
Our answer is not based on studying old bones,rocks and theories based on events that supposedly took place billions of years ago,which no one witnessed,can not explain nor duplicate.
You are looking at that which is natural to explain that which is supernatural,which neither Science or unbelievers are able to understand..
But,keep looking,your search may lead you to conclude that you've been looking in the wrong places and hopefully the answer to that which you seek,will be provided.
Which is exactly why you aren't "curious"... you're "ignorant and gullible" (and too stupid to know it). If you've found YOUR answer, why don't you just go away and let the intelligent members of your species continue to progress and learn and make things better? Why do you continue to benefit from the fruits of the things you criticize? If you actually believed anything you say, it seems only appropriate that you would stay away from anything that is a product of science (like atheism and ALL technology). It's completely sickening to see such hypocrisy.
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#104066 May 18, 2013
someone please take the catnip off the end of all those straws the kitty cat keeps grasping at, this is starting to get painful to watch. Why should you care what this person believes?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104067 May 18, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
someone please take the catnip off the end of all those straws the kitty cat keeps grasping at, this is starting to get painful to watch. Why should you care what this person believes?
Because we don't need any more Jeffrey Dahmers claiming that their imaginary friend told them to kill a bunch of innocent people just because another imaginary friend told him they have weapons of mass destruction hidden in their cellars. Hmm ... I think I mixed two delusional people into one, hard to keep you deluded people straight.
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#104068 May 18, 2013
Hey I tell you what! Take that post to GWB and present it to him!! That's the only person I know that started a war based on WMD hidden in sandpiles!

Then I will agree with you on the delusional and deluded people

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104069 May 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Not according to most Hindus.
That's what I learned from him.
stuck in a lodi

Elkhorn City, KY

#104070 May 18, 2013
Oh and another thing, if you want to talk about delusional and deluded people; I find you to be as nutty as squirrel $hit! But hey, my opinion matters to you about as much as your opinion matters to me!

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104071 May 18, 2013
_Ummm_ wrote:
You're dense. Seriously. I'm not trying to "mince words" (wtf?) or "make it OK to abort", and no definition that uses the same word as is being described is "just fine" for anything as scientific as this (and, truthfully, very little outside of that realm). I just want you to properly define what exactly your argument/position is, yet you will not. So I'll quit trying to get you to. I'll ask other questions that don't involve you actually stating your whole position, since you apparently feel much more comfortable having ample room to dodge.

When is abortion OK? Is it ever fine to terminate a pregnancy after an egg has been fertilized, in what cases, and why? Is an extremely high probability of a short life filled with pain and suffering a better thing than simply having a very short life with no pain and suffering? Is the body, life, and livelihood of a pregnant rape victim more or less important than a cluster of a few hundred cells sitting in her uterine wall?

curious wrote, "<quoted text>
The foundation of science is observation, data collection, theory, criticism/review, and revision.
Well,they've done all that and still do not have an answer.
I do not need to look any further. I and millions of others have found our answer.
Our answer is not based on studying old bones,rocks and theories based on events that supposedly took place billions of years ago,which no one witnessed,can not explain nor duplicate.
You are looking at that which is natural to explain that which is supernatural,which neither Science or unbelievers are able to understand..
But,keep looking,your search may lead you to conclude that you've been looking in the wrong places and hopefully the answer to that which you seek,will be provided."

Which is exactly why you aren't "curious"... you're "ignorant and gullible" (and too stupid to know it). If you've found YOUR answer, why don't you just go away and let the intelligent members of your species continue to progress and learn and make things better? Why do you continue to benefit from the fruits of the things you criticize? If you actually believed anything you say, it seems only appropriate that you would stay away from anything that is a product of science (like atheism and ALL technology). It's completely sickening to see such hypocrisy.
Since you can't seem to get me to say exactly what you want me to say so you can commence calling me an idiot and a moron, why don't you tell me where you stand on these issues? I have been open and frequent on here with my stance. It's your turn.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#104072 May 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Because we don't need any more Jeffrey Dahmers claiming that their imaginary friend told them to kill a bunch of innocent people just because another imaginary friend told him they have weapons of mass destruction hidden in their cellars. Hmm ... I think I mixed two delusional people into one, hard to keep you deluded people straight.
Funny you think it is wrong to kill innocent people, but see no problem killing even more innocent children. Actually funny isn't the word. It's disturbingly hypocritical.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104073 May 18, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I learned from him.
So again, you accepted what one person said without even doubting it, asking for evidence, or better, checking it out yourself. If you looked up gullible in the dictionary now, there will be a picture of you.

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