In Madison, cutbacks - and rage

MADISON, Wis. - As four game wardens awkwardly stood guard, protesters, scores deep, crushed into a corridor leading to the governor's office Wednesday, their screams echoing through the Capitol: "Come out, come out, wherever you are!" Behind closed doors, Scott Walker, the Republican who has been governor for about six weeks, calmly described his ... Full Story
Pacfan

Eau Claire, WI

#1033 Feb 21, 2011
lotus_in_the_hills wrote:
Double posting this to debunk any crackpot theories that anyone outside local Wisconsin unions is behind the protests:
Sorry to explode this particular myth, Outsider, but I'm with the teaching assistants union at the university here, been here since day one of the protest last Sunday, and I'm proud to tell you that WE are behind this protest, WE set up a food bank (since local businesses have been donating food like crazy!), trash clean up both inside and outside the building, a lost and found, information tables throughout the capitol. I'm so proud of my fellow students and how well they're running this. We had been planning this since early last december since we knew what was coming. Did I EVER ONCE here of Organizing for America (this is actually the first time I've ever been to that website)? Did we EVER ONCE get approached by the DNC? Nope. Sorry, but we Wisconsin unions are doing this all on our own, from Valentines day when we mobilized 2,000 people from the University community, TAs, undergrads, and their families, to the following days when union members from all over Madison and the rest of the state joined us. Give us credit where credit is due. We don't need "Americans for Progress" to bus us in.
Thank you!
Cosmos

Beckley, WV

#1034 Feb 21, 2011
Public employee's should NEVER have been given the right to unionize,they are servants of the public,not workers in the private sector!!!
A couple of things

West Palm Beach, FL

#1035 Feb 21, 2011
lotus_in_the_hills wrote:
<quoted text>
Great, links to back those figures? Do you know if those figures factor in or out school superintendents and high administration positions that make way more than the teachers? Sorry, I know quite a few public school teachers here in Madison, and none of them are anywhere near what you might call affluent. The lot of them are struggling to get by, just like everyone else.
You serious? You're debating a topic that you never researched? Hmmm, we'll, glad to be of help. We all know that union employees, ESPECIALLY teachers, are paid an extraordinary amount of money (it's the reason why everyone is so angry about the protesters) but here are some links anyway. Here is one article, find some others:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/21/wisconsins-...

This is one of those things that is well known and one of the reasons the states are all in such debt, if not the main reason.
Eric L

AOL

#1036 Feb 21, 2011
A couple of things wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo! Another argument won! I quoted data, bush's grades, from yale and harvard. And what does dopey do? He diverts our attention on to "how bush got into yale, which by the way is purely speculation. perhaps daddy got him in, perhaps not. perhaps kerry's daddy got him in to, perhaps not. that's NOT the topic here. the topic is bush's grades.) See how sneaky these libs are? Shut up idiot erica. You're impossible.
Let me throw you a bone erica. Okay, daddy got bush into yale. And probably harvard too. WHO CARES! Did daddy take his tests for him too? Did daddy get his grades for him too? And did daddy pay the national guard off to sign off on bush jr's flying time as well? In other words, who cares how he got into yale or harvard or the national guard. This is all speculation anyway. If I had a gun to your head and asked you if you were willing to 'BET YOUR LIFE ON WHETHER DADDY GOT HIM INTO YALE AND HARVARD' would you be so sure as to take the chance and have the trigger pulled? Of course not. Again, speculation. Another lovely thing libs do. I have some speculation for you. Obama isn't a US citizen and he's a muslim terrorist. You like that speculation?
About the "daddy getting jr into yale thing..." Isn't that what you libs are about? Helping someone who doesn't have the merit to accomplish something on their own, accomplish something? Isn't that the entire idea of affirmative action? Or just more hypocrisy. LOSER, you will NEVER win an argument.
Hey dope, I thought you were too tired to debate??? Apparently not. You just can't and won't debate the nazi argument. It's over your head.
No, affirmative action is there to ensure that someone who is non whilte ids taken into considerations for admission into a university. For example, affirmative action helps ensure that a more talented and qualified {there are many} person of Asian descent doesn't get passed over in consideration in favor of say a Yale legacy with less intelligence and lower scores for example based on racial bias alone. Your less merit argument veers very close to racism there because you automatically assume that the most qualified person is white (i.e. those ineligible for affirmative action for the most part unless they are white female).
A couple of things

West Palm Beach, FL

#1037 Feb 21, 2011
Eric L wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact is that you know nothing about the Nazis, so you are not qualified to teach that subject to anyone. Regarding the Nazis and anti Semitism, the roots of that anti Semitism go back to Christianity via the likes of St. John Chrysostum, St. Ambrose and Constantine. German anti Semitism can be found from an abundance of sources ranging from Catholics like Hildegard of Bingen to Protestant Reformation leader Martin Luther. Just about all the Nazis were bought up in Christian backgrounds (including Catholics like Hitler). The large number of conservative Catholics from southern Germany and Austria in the Nazi ranks may very well have enhanced their appeal with Pope Pius XII (who always sided with the Nazis over both the US and Soviet Union when it came to his moral condemnation). It is true that some Christians were imprisoned and executed by the Nazis, but that was because those particular Christians (along with a brave few Union leaders, liberals, communists etc.) criticized the Nazi regime, not because they were Christians alone. The people that the Nazis gained their base of support were largely rural German conservatives as well. The other elements such as the Nazis hatred of liberals, communists, labor unions, democratic government, racism, anti Semitism,militarism and glorification of war, their brazen anti intellectualism etc. put them firmly on the side of the political right wing as well. I know that you got your Nazi/ moral relativism theory from some cut and paste American Spectator article written by a conservative Christian apologist, but that thesis is dead wrong concerning the facts. After all, Sweden, Canada, Britain etc. have secular governments, but are hardly Nazi, not could you blame the secularism of the Renaissance or Classical world for Nazi criminality either. The fact remains that the Nazis exploited anti Semitism and the background for all of that (including "scientific" anti Semitism) came from German Christian anti Semitism. Skirt around that central fact all you want, but it is the elephant in the living room.
First off all, I like how you realize that you had to respond, otherwise take a chance in looking like a bigger dope than you already are. You actually listened to something I said for once! Second of all, STICK TO A SUBJECT! Another wonderful liberal tactic. Toss a bunch of irrelevant shit out and hope it overwhelms your opponent. First off, how do you know I'm not a teacher myself? How do you know I don't have a degree in history from one of your lovely family members? You're assuming a lot here. You can make the assumption or claim that "I'm an idiot" because that's a general statement but honing in on one particular issue, such as "my credentials as a teacher" is something you know NOTHING about. Why do liberals always assume they know things about people's personal lives? You guys are so easy. Anyway, I'm not sure what you're even replying to. You haven't chosen anything to retort to, you've just kind of thrown a bunch of mush out there. My initial reason for posting about the left and nazis was to show the similarities between them, giving EXAMPLES. I gave you examples. What did you give me other than a hodgepodge of krap? I will comment on one thing though... you claim that the germans went after only a few christians because of what the christians said about the germans? Hmm, 3 million christians is a lot of "some" you jerk.

Do you realize the contradictions in your own bs or do you not? It's so obvious to me, it's glaring! You libs aren't top notch when it comes to logic, are you?

German conservatives were nazis? Ah, no. Too stupid to comment on.

You're comparing other secular gov.'s to nazis you moron? Now this is a total exercise in logic. If A = B, and B = C, then C must = A? Oh my, you bumbling IDIOT! Yes, canada and other countries are more secular but not nazis. Of course not!

“I blog about Buddhist news.”

Since: Apr 08

USA

#1038 Feb 21, 2011
Dr-Zaius wrote:
<quoted text>
So the union is providing wifi?
No, the capitol has had wifi for ages now...
Moribund Liberal Media

Minneapolis, MN

#1039 Feb 21, 2011
IrishMN wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. Does Dayton know this? I bet not or he would be setting up a special catagory for taxing teachers paychecks.
Perish the thought.

Teachers unions and the Democrats: joined at the hip.

[July 2010] "In the past 18 months, Education Minnesota, the teachersí union that represents 70,000 educators across the state, has shelled out approximately $384,000 in direct political spending. More than 99% of that money went to support the Democratic candidates, the DFL party, and liberal campaign committees. Less than one percent, just $3,200, was given to Republican candidates and committees.

"Itís important to note that public employees are forced to pay dues to these unions. Even those who opt out of the union are forced to pay so-called ďfair shareĒ fees to the union. And itís hard to believe that rank-and-file union members are as loyal to a single political party as their leadership is, given that exit polls in presidential races [ http://people-press.org/commentary/... ] consistently find union support for Democrats to be between 50 and 60%."

Since: Aug 10

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1040 Feb 21, 2011
reality speaking wrote:
The same thing is happening in Florida with the newly elected "deer in headlights" Governor Rick Scott who better be careful or he'll find his a-ss out of office before his 4-year term is up at the rate he's going.
Governor Scott is going to be your President someday. Show some respect.

Since: Aug 10

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1041 Feb 21, 2011
Cosmos wrote:
Public employee's should NEVER have been given the right to unionize,they are servants of the public,not workers in the private sector!!!
Agreed, but don't try to explain that to a progressive. They need the power to get elected, as 70% of the country despises them.

“I blog about Buddhist news.”

Since: Apr 08

USA

#1042 Feb 21, 2011
Dr-Zaius wrote:
<quoted text>
Now the progressives believe we all have suddenly become blind.
I didn't know Jessie Jackson was a local..LMFAO.
Several out of state speakers have flown in to speak at rallies. These protests have been going on since last Sunday. Jesse Jackson didn't come until Friday, after news of the protests went national. What's your point, Zaius??

Since: Aug 10

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1043 Feb 21, 2011
lotus_in_the_hills wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the capitol has had wifi for ages now...
I wonder how much I have to pay to subsidize that.

Perhaps they take some of it from here.

http://www.cnsnews.com/print/81647
A couple of things

West Palm Beach, FL

#1044 Feb 21, 2011
continued...

by your argument idiot, any one country that is secular must be nazis? WTF? The nazis history is bases on an atheist base, simple as that. You're putting way too much of a complicated spin on it. No, if you're an atheist, you're not a nazi.

The nazis didn't hate the communists until later on, much later on. Early on, they were quite affable. They even signed a pact in 39 or around that time.

The rest of your post isn't clear enough to comment on, although I'd like to. You still have not made your original point, which was making the parallel between today's right and the nazis. That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard and you've made no points attributing toward that statement. I have on the other hand.

Once again:

NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY. SOCIALIST. SOCIALIST. S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T. Get it? Socialism. National as in (federal). Is it that hard?

The nazis were pagans. In order to treat people the way liberals do, which is horrific, it helps to be a pagan. Nazis were. So are liberals. liberals are relativists. So were the nazis. The left hates jews. So did the nazis. The left hates Christians. So did the nazis.

I can't make it any clearer and if you really, truly don't get these points, you're no longer worth my time.
A couple of things

West Palm Beach, FL

#1045 Feb 21, 2011
Eric,

Are you now going to try and claim that the left loves jews and Christians? Probably.

Since: Aug 10

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1046 Feb 21, 2011
lotus_in_the_hills wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the capitol has had wifi for ages now...
Hmmmm

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/60446

"This winter has been brutal here in Wisconsin, where Iím writing. More than 80 inches of snow has fallen, breaking state records and sparking a chorus of jokes about global warming.

While the economy has dropped as rapidly as the mercury, companies sporting heavy debt loads have taken a similar beating.

Thatís been particularly hard on the two technologies that once held such promise for free or low-cost municipal broadband service: Wi-Fi and WiMax.

BACK TO EARTH

EarthLink announced in February that it is putting its city Wi-Fi business up for sale. Since the death of CEO Garry Betty early last year, analysts have noted a continued scaling back of EarthLinkís once ambitious plans to blanket several major and minor U.S. cities.

The company announced in September it was opting out of proposed networks in Houston and San Francisco, though its showcase network in Philadelphia is more than three-quarters complete.

Once envisioned as a viable third alternative to DSL and cable modem competitors, municipal Wi-Fi was also touted as a means to address the digital divide, as cities building such networks could subsidize them in ways to attract low-income users.

Of course many progressive cities such as Wisconsinís capital, Madison, never quite got up to speed on Wi-Fiís potential. They also vastly underestimated the competitive response from the telco lobby, which paid for (oh, excuse me, lobbied for) legislation in more than a dozen states outlawing any publicly subsidized network that would compete with theirs."

Since: Aug 10

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1047 Feb 21, 2011
lotus_in_the_hills wrote:
<quoted text>
Several out of state speakers have flown in to speak at rallies. These protests have been going on since last Sunday. Jesse Jackson didn't come until Friday, after news of the protests went national. What's your point, Zaius??
The point is that this is not actually homegrown. It is being supported by the DNC and the Obama machine with paid union thugs. They probably incited it.

It is all about political power, not the piddly 5.8 percent of their pay into their pensions and the 12.6 percent of health care premiums.

We all know where the red shirts come from, and they were the first ones out there.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/D...

"The Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm -- the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign -- is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

OfA, as the campaign group is known, has been criticized at times for staying out of local issues like same-sex marriage, but it's riding to the aide of the public sector unions who hoping to persuade some Republican legislators to oppose Walker's plan. And while Obama may have his difference with teachers unions, OfA's engagement with the fight -- and Obama's own clear stance against Walker -- mean that he's remaining loyal to key Democratic Party allies at what is, for them, a very dangerous moment.

OfA Wisconsin's field efforts include filling buses and building turnout for the rallies this week in Madison, organizing 15 rapid response phone banks urging supporters to call their state legislators, and working on planning and producing rallies, a Democratic Party official in Washington said."
A couple of things

West Palm Beach, FL

#1048 Feb 21, 2011
Eric,

Listen, take some advice. You're trying to debate me on something that is way over your head. Why do I say that? Only yesterday, you were making the claim the gov., gov walker, had been the reason behind the states overwhelming debt. Something that is that ridiculous, that outlandish, that stupid, has already set the path for the outcome of any of your arguments. You'll never revive yourself from that. It was THAT stupid. So now that we know how dumb you truly are, why bother trying to pretend as if you know something. If you can't even LOGICALLY come to the conclusion that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the new gov. to have created the shortage of funds in the state of WI in one months time, then you're incapable of logically controlling anything else. Sorry but the cat is out of the bag pal...
Eric L

AOL

#1049 Feb 21, 2011
A couple of things wrote:
<quoted text>
First off all, I like how you realize that you had to respond, otherwise take a chance in looking like a bigger dope than you already are. You actually listened to something I said for once! Second of all, STICK TO A SUBJECT! Another wonderful liberal tactic. Toss a bunch of irrelevant **** out and hope it overwhelms your opponent. First off, how do you know I'm not a teacher myself? How do you know I don't have a degree in history from one of your lovely family members? You're assuming a lot here. You can make the assumption or claim that "I'm an idiot" because that's a general statement but honing in on one particular issue, such as "my credentials as a teacher" is something you know NOTHING about. Why do liberals always assume they know things about people's personal lives? You guys are so easy. Anyway, I'm not sure what you're even replying to. You haven't chosen anything to retort to, you've just kind of thrown a bunch of mush out there. My initial reason for posting about the left and nazis was to show the similarities between them, giving EXAMPLES. I gave you examples. What did you give me other than a hodgepodge of krap? I will comment on one thing though... you claim that the germans went after only a few christians because of what the christians said about the germans? Hmm, 3 million christians is a lot of "some" you jerk.
Do you realize the contradictions in your own bs or do you not? It's so obvious to me, it's glaring! You libs aren't top notch when it comes to logic, are you?
German conservatives were nazis? Ah, no. Too stupid to comment on.
You're comparing other secular gov.'s to nazis you moron? Now this is a total exercise in logic. If A = B, and B = C, then C must = A? Oh my, you bumbling IDIOT! Yes, canada and other countries are more secular but not nazis. Of course not!
So, you mentioned 3 million German critics of the Nazis who just happened to be Christians then (unless you are including those among their 5 million war dead). I am sure that you have more than anecdotal evidence that these were killed for their Christian beliefs alone? After all, some of those Christians could well have been liberals, labor union leaders, plotting to take Hitler's life (more popular after 1944) or just someone who said the wrong thing about Hitler, was overheard by the Gestapo/SD and ended up dying in a concentration camp.
You were the one blaming secularism or non Christianity as the key element that made for the nature of Naziism, not me, so I simply set the record straight and then you lambaste me for it.
The other part of your criticism regarding the rural German political right? Yes, they offered a bedrock support which the Nazis used to gain power. We could also include other conservatives like the Prussian Junker class into the equation and of course the considerable overlap of right wing former German veterans from World War I, the very right wing Friekorps elements (Catholic born former chicken farmer Heinrich Himmler was in that too), and many other German rightist elements including industrialist interests like Rhineland coal and steel magnates and Krupp . Foreign funds from conservatives like Faber Castell and Dulles holdings with Sullivan and Cromwell also figured into the mix too. None of that is irrelevant, but is central to uinderstanding the Nazi base of support.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#1050 Feb 21, 2011
?Easy to mark me as being a clueless nut.
Hey, your bed to sleep in. I've thankfully raised my kids already. You get what you deserve for not listening and you're still not listening.

Just make sure you don't come whining to this taxpayer's door. He'll tell you to take a frickin hike.
A couple of things

West Palm Beach, FL

#1051 Feb 21, 2011
Eric reminds me of another idiot friend of mine who, when losing a debate, throws a bunch of irrelevant garbage at you, and then assaults you with an array of convoluted vocabulary in hopes of keeping you confused and in shock, kind of like a 'shock and awe' campaign, only without the shock and awe. More useless lib. tactics. Do you guys sit around and think of ways to win arguments using useless tactics such as that?

By the way, juan williams is on tv trying to make the case that it was "okay" for the democrat baby legislators to run off like they did, to avoid the vote. What an idiot!
pappy

United States

#1052 Feb 21, 2011
I hear on the news where the Koke Bros. came to your fine state. REckon they will start buying up your power plants --better watch it folks the price of electricity may be going up soon. Can your governor sell power plants with a no bid contract? bush hired the Irag contractors with a no bid contract-- and the cost of war went up==no accountability. Can happpen you know.

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