Ohio Supreme Court Rules Smoking Ban Constitutional

May 23, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Cincinnati CityBeat

Since 2006, the Ohio Smoke-Free Workplace Act has banned indoor smoking at public establishments and places of employment, making Ohio the first Midwestern state to enact a state-wide ban.

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pops

Hamilton, OH

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#2
May 23, 2012
 

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I understand but think that it goes a little too far since NO ONE makes anyone go to Billy Bob's Bar where smoking may be allowed or makes anyone stay away from Penny's Pub which does not allow smoking.
The work place is different, NO smoking there.I know, I know, a bar or pub is a work place too but everyone working there goes to & from the smoking areas since NO smoking is allowed in the kitchens and bar areas. Plus they can apply to work at Pennys Pub where no smoking is allowed by a management decision, NOT a state decree. Then there's the fact that the customer/patron MUST be of legal age/21 & they all have a choice to be there or not for just any period of time under their choice.
Places like TGIF, Chi Chi's, Frisch's or Red Lobster that serve families that include minors can be forbidden smoking since even toddlers may be dining there.
Just my opinion.
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#3
May 23, 2012
 

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Seems like vote buying to me. If our constitution states that private industry can be dictated as to what conditions they are able to run their business, then our Constitution is meaningless, and we all might as well throw in the towel now. You can even smoke a cigarette in bars and work places in communist and dictator countries. One more reason not to move to Ohio.

Just like the Travon Martin case, it's a real shame when mob rule is able to become the law of the land, and override current laws and Constitutions. This is why Ohio casinos will be a total failure in the future.
Goldberg

Avon, OH

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May 23, 2012
 

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Zeno's in Columbus is gone.... Look out Delaney in Toledo.... YOUR NEXT!!!
Need A Light

London, Canada

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#5
May 23, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
Seems like vote buying to me. If our constitution states that private industry can be dictated as to what conditions they are able to run their business, then our Constitution is meaningless, and we all might as well throw in the towel now. You can even smoke a cigarette in bars and work places in communist and dictator countries. One more reason not to move to Ohio.
Just like the Travon Martin case, it's a real shame when mob rule is able to become the law of the land, and override current laws and Constitutions. This is why Ohio casinos will be a total failure in the future.
Vote buying is always a potential in these days and times. This particular case we are discussing is just 1 particular case of it's kind with all the continous charges.
In my opinion had the owner taken immediate action on very first charge his logging of events would not have been in question in regards to his consitutional rights. As the charges piled up his position appears to look contemptful regardless of what he thought his position was. Courts as a general rule of thumb do not like violations right or wrong to lagg on although in this case they seem guilty themselves. I can see another case come up in a different place, different circumstances, and stand by the consitution as written. There has been little mention of MADD on these forums I would think they would be taking notes of this decision for they're playbook.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

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#6
May 24, 2012
 

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Oh, yeah. The tobacco industry and its catspaws couldn't outbid the nonsmokers, could they? Delusional sourgrapers.
Need A Light

London, Canada

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May 24, 2012
 

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Hugh Jass wrote:
Oh, yeah. The tobacco industry and its catspaws couldn't outbid the nonsmokers, could they? Delusional sourgrapers.
Is it really over ??

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/...
Smoke Free Forever

Alpharetta, GA

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May 24, 2012
 

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frisky wrote:
Maurice Thompson said a victory in court would have sent a strong statement. But a new law could achieve the same goal of keeping the ban from being enforced at adult-only establishments that are limited to those 21 years old and up.
http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/... The executive director of 1851 Center for Constitutional Law that litigated the suit says a bill is already in the works to exempt bars from the ban.
FAT CHANCE, you have a better chance at laying a golden egg, but go ahead keep pushing. How dare smokers still think they can smoke wherever they please and harm others around them, just who the hell do they think they are? Neanderthals I guess!!!
ItsAFact

Walkersville, MD

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#10
May 24, 2012
 

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Smoke Free Forever wrote:
<quoted text>
FAT Neanderthal I am!!!
See, I knew you (ewe) had a noticeable quality!
pops

Hamilton, OH

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#12
May 24, 2012
 

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Smoke Free Forever wrote:
<quoted text>
FAT CHANCE, you have a better chance at laying a golden egg, but go ahead keep pushing. How dare smokers still think they can smoke wherever they please and harm others around them, just who the hell do they think they are? Neanderthals I guess!!!
What YOY & others don't realize is that YOU are imposing your will on others that are NOT imposing their will on you. You are denying others of their free choice when they are NOT forcing anything on you.
When I used to wait tables, I learned that smokers usually tipped better too.
There should be absolutely nothing wrong with smoking & non-smoking areas with proper spacing & or ventilation. YOU still have the choice to enter or not as should anyone else.
Frisbee

Seattle, WA

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#13
May 24, 2012
 

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Need A Light wrote:
Is it really over ??
It was over decades ago with the first smoking bans. Maybe someday you will mature to the point where you can reach the final stage of grieving.

Y'all are stuck in a childish loop of anger and denial. Impotent, frustrated juveniles....
The internet is the playground and you're throwing a tantrum that doesn't end.

Funny to watch, though.
pops

Hamilton, OH

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#14
May 24, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
Seems like vote buying to me. If our constitution states that private industry can be dictated as to what conditions they are able to run their business, then our Constitution is meaningless, and we all might as well throw in the towel now. You can even smoke a cigarette in bars and work places in communist and dictator countries. One more reason not to move to Ohio.
Just like the Travon Martin case, it's a real shame when mob rule is able to become the law of the land, and override current laws and Constitutions. This is why Ohio casinos will be a total failure in the future.
I know that my comments are off topic but you mentioned something that I have to comment on.
In my opinion, most 'welfare programs' have become vote legal buying programs. They have gone past being assitance programs to being SUPPORT programs that GENERATIONS of families have come to depend on instead of them having pride, self esteem & initative to do better for themselves. It is easier to check the mailbox for money than have to get up at prescribed times to go punch a clock & eran a check. We are sliding down a slippery slope to full blown socialism that has NEVER worked throughout history. It can NOT work.
Sry for leaving the topic but I was somewhat compelled to.
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#15
May 24, 2012
 

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Smoke Free Forever wrote:
<quoted text>
FAT CHANCE, you have a better chance at laying a golden egg, but go ahead keep pushing. How dare smokers still think they can smoke wherever they please and harm others around them, just who the hell do they think they are? Neanderthals I guess!!!
Let me ask: Should I be able to come to your house, and insist I be able to smoke in it? If not, why do you think it's okay for you to walk into another mans bar, bowling alley, or workplace, and insist that nobody smoke?

The great economist Walter E Williams put it best. He said that smoking bans violate property rights. Air itself has no owner. I don't own the air on the streets, on the lake, in the park or in a stadium. Owners are responsible for their own air, and they should be allowed to do with that air as they desire; no different than what you do with your air in your house or garage.

Voters (and apparently the Oho Supreme Court) decided that the owner of their property is not allowed to decide what to do with their air. Instead, what they do with their air is the decisions of others who do not own that property and thus the air in it.

Freedom means choice. The less choice one has, the less freedom one has. Freedom also means tolerance. There is no such thing as an intolerant free society. Freedom and intolerance are direct enemies of each other. You either have a free tolerant society, or a captive intolerant society; but you can't have both.

Now that the precedent is set that the public can dictate what the owner is allowed or not allowed to do with his property or the contents in it, I guess the public will be able to tell the owner what kind of food he can serve, the strength of his drinks, the intensity of his lighting, and where he can or cannot keep his dumpster in the back of the business.

After all, isn't that what property rights and freedom is all about?
xxxrayted

Beachwood, OH

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#16
May 24, 2012
 

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pops wrote:
<quoted text>I know that my comments are off topic but you mentioned something that I have to comment on.
In my opinion, most 'welfare programs' have become vote legal buying programs. They have gone past being assitance programs to being SUPPORT programs that GENERATIONS of families have come to depend on instead of them having pride, self esteem & initative to do better for themselves. It is easier to check the mailbox for money than have to get up at prescribed times to go punch a clock & eran a check. We are sliding down a slippery slope to full blown socialism that has NEVER worked throughout history. It can NOT work.
Sry for leaving the topic but I was somewhat compelled to.
And your comment is spot on.

What we have is a society of poor, middle-class and the wealthy. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in most cases, meaning that offspring will often sustain the environment they were raised in.

This is all fine and dandy. The wealthy push their children to be educated so they can attend good colleges to maintain the lifestyle they were raised in. Same goes with the middle-class. Unfortunately, so do the poor.

The difference is that the wealthy and middle-class minimize their family size to accommodate their financial ability to support them, usually two to three children. The poor however have no limits. They don't support their children--we do.

So now what we have is a disproportionate amount of poor children compared to children from working families. And then liberals can't figure out why we can't solve poverty.

In my opinion, anybody applying for public assistance should have their tubes tied or a vasectomy. Nobody in our country living off taxpayers should be allowed to reproduce on taxpayers dime. If you can't support your children, fine. But you can't have anymore while on public assistance.
Need A Light

London, Canada

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May 24, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
And your comment is spot on.
What we have is a society of poor, middle-class and the wealthy. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in most cases, meaning that offspring will often sustain the environment they were raised in.
This is all fine and dandy. The wealthy push their children to be educated so they can attend good colleges to maintain the lifestyle they were raised in. Same goes with the middle-class. Unfortunately, so do the poor.
The difference is that the wealthy and middle-class minimize their family size to accommodate their financial ability to support them, usually two to three children. The poor however have no limits. They don't support their children--we do.
So now what we have is a disproportionate amount of poor children compared to children from working families. And then liberals can't figure out why we can't solve poverty.
In my opinion, anybody applying for public assistance should have their tubes tied or a vasectomy. Nobody in our country living off taxpayers should be allowed to reproduce on taxpayers dime. If you can't support your children, fine. But you can't have anymore while on public assistance.
There is also birth control pills ....welfare should provide as a condition of collection.
pops

Hamilton, OH

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#18
May 24, 2012
 

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property rights & freedom had a mentionable amount to do with the founding of America. WE dissolved a monarchy (simular to dictator) to create & then preserve PERSONAL FREEDOMS & consequently create the greatest freedom loving country in history that has attracted & welcomed more people from more countries than ever B4 in history. There is something to be learned from that & every effort should be made to perpetuate that same level of achievement.
In fact, after the 13 colonies broke from England, they treated every other colony/possesion differently so that England would (& Spain & France) would not lose more power. America set the bar & now idiots are trying to lower that bar or even destroy it. So I could hardly agree with you more.
Need A Light

London, Canada

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#19
May 24, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask: Should I be able to come to your house, and insist I be able to smoke in it? If not, why do you think it's okay for you to walk into another mans bar, bowling alley, or workplace, and insist that nobody smoke?
The great economist Walter E Williams put it best. He said that smoking bans violate property rights. Air itself has no owner. I don't own the air on the streets, on the lake, in the park or in a stadium. Owners are responsible for their own air, and they should be allowed to do with that air as they desire; no different than what you do with your air in your house or garage.
Voters (and apparently the Oho Supreme Court) decided that the owner of their property is not allowed to decide what to do with their air. Instead, what they do with their air is the decisions of others who do not own that property and thus the air in it.
Freedom means choice. The less choice one has, the less freedom one has. Freedom also means tolerance. There is no such thing as an intolerant free society. Freedom and intolerance are direct enemies of each other. You either have a free tolerant society, or a captive intolerant society; but you can't have both.
Now that the precedent is set that the public can dictate what the owner is allowed or not allowed to do with his property or the contents in it, I guess the public will be able to tell the owner what kind of food he can serve, the strength of his drinks, the intensity of his lighting, and where he can or cannot keep his dumpster in the back of the business.
After all, isn't that what property rights and freedom is all about?
Very much so, and just one step closer to no search warrant, and people who will make their choices not yours for anything they see on your property.
pops

Hamilton, OH

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#20
May 24, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
And your comment is spot on.
What we have is a society of poor, middle-class and the wealthy. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in most cases, meaning that offspring will often sustain the environment they were raised in.
This is all fine and dandy. The wealthy push their children to be educated so they can attend good colleges to maintain the lifestyle they were raised in. Same goes with the middle-class. Unfortunately, so do the poor.
The difference is that the wealthy and middle-class minimize their family size to accommodate their financial ability to support them, usually two to three children. The poor however have no limits. They don't support their children--we do.
So now what we have is a disproportionate amount of poor children compared to children from working families. And then liberals can't figure out why we can't solve poverty.
In my opinion, anybody applying for public assistance should have their tubes tied or a vasectomy. Nobody in our country living off taxpayers should be allowed to reproduce on taxpayers dime. If you can't support your children, fine. But you can't have anymore while on public assistance.
Not sure if this is applicable but I had my 'tubes' tied after 3 kids because I couldn't afford any more. One is a very fine auto mechanic, one has been in the navy for 9 yrs with 5 to go on this hitch & one is in college to be a psychologist. I think that I did OK. And I got food stamps twice in my life. Once for 1 month & once for 2 months. The key is AID NOT SUPPORT. Glad that the AID was there when I needed it.
Proud of it!!!
Frisbee

Seattle, WA

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#21
May 24, 2012
 

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xxxrayted wrote:
Let me ask: Should I be able to come to your house, and insist I be able to smoke in it? If not, why do you think it's okay for you to walk into another mans bar, bowling alley, or workplace, and insist that nobody smoke?
Because that other man applied to the government for permission to conduct business with the PUBLIC. He INVITED the PUBLIC onto the premises. In doing so, he AGREED to OBEY hundreds of laws and regulations that don't apply to a PRIVATE residence. He has to obey OHSA, ADA, FDA, Fire Codes, Health Codes, Labor Law, and smoking bans. In no way does your freedom to do ANYTHING extend to the point where it harms your fellow citizens.
xxxrayted wrote:
The great economist Walter E Williams put it best. He said that smoking bans violate property rights.
He is wrong, as evidenced by the hundreds of smoking bans that get upheld at every turn. Economics is not law.
xxxrayted wrote:
Owners are responsible for their own air, and they should be allowed to do with that air as they desire; no different than what you do with your air in your house or garage.
Owners who INVITE THE PUBLIC into their premises are responsible to provide a safe environment to their customers. It is VERY different that your PRIVATE house or garage. You don't have to have handicapped access to your house do you?
xxxrayted wrote:
Freedom means choice. The less choice one has, the less freedom one has.
Agreed. Under bans Everyone has the choice to go anywhere without being harmed. Smokers still can choose to poison themselves to their heart's content (pun intended). They just have to take a few steps outside to do it.
xxxrayted wrote:
Freedom also means tolerance. There is no such thing as an intolerant free society. Freedom and intolerance are direct enemies of each other.
Agreed. Under the bans, smokers merely have to take a few steps every now and then and smoke all they please without getting it all over everyone else. THAT'S ALL! It is no different than having to take a few steps to the restroom every now and then and take a leak in there instead of pissing all over everyone. Why is that SO intolerable to smokers? Where is their tolerance? I've never once heard anyone crying and whining about 'losing their freedom to piss' by having to go to the restroom. It's just SO asinine.
xxxrayted wrote:
Now that the precedent is set that the public can dictate what the owner is allowed or not allowed to do with his property or the contents in it, I guess the public will be able to tell the owner what kind of food he can serve, the strength of his drinks, the intensity of his lighting, and where he can or cannot keep his dumpster in the back of the business.
That precedent was set a LOOOONG time ago with the first of the hundreds of codes above. You're being hyperbolic.
Frisbee

Seattle, WA

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#22
May 24, 2012
 

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Need A Light wrote:
There is also birth control pills ....welfare should provide as a condition of collection.
That would be good. Shot would be better, except it makes some people sick.
xxxrayted wrote:
In my opinion, anybody applying for public assistance should have their tubes tied or a vasectomy. Nobody in our country living off taxpayers should be allowed to reproduce on taxpayers dime. If you can't support your children, fine.
If only it were that easy.
If the procedure was reversible and the reversal was free after you had been supporting yourself for a year or so, you might be on to something. Not all of those on assistance are chronic abusers, especially in these economic times. Punishing those who use the system as it was intended with infertility is extremely oppressive coming from a guy who was preaching freedom in the other post.
pops wrote:
And I got food stamps twice in my life. Once for 1 month & once for 2 months. The key is AID NOT SUPPORT. Glad that the AID was there when I needed it.
Proud of it!!!
Exactly the guy I'm referring to. We couldn't very well force him to get sterilized for taking a 3 months worth of food stamps. I chuckle when I hear the oppressive, totalitarian things that come out of self-professed freedom lovers.
Need A Light

London, Canada

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#23
May 24, 2012
 

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Pops you are telling it the way so many so many have been through Cheers !!! Be proud of yourself you did it your way!

The only reason they put locks on doors is to keep honest people out who belive in the constitution.

Pops you might be only one of a few people that understand that.

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