Standoff ends peacefully; 2-year-old ...

Standoff ends peacefully; 2-year-old safe

There are 82 comments on the WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan story from Apr 29, 2008, titled Standoff ends peacefully; 2-year-old safe. In it, WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan reports that:

A two-year-old is reunited with his mother after a man surrendered to police following a six-hour standoff at a home.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan.

Commentator

United States

#61 May 3, 2008
Hello again. Wow, you don't check a blog for a day or two, and you miss a bunch. For those of you who are so intently interested in my identity, I'm not Sarah, or Rob, or GR Teacher, or anyone else under a different name. I will fess up to Sarah, however. I do happen to be a psychologist. Betcha feel pretty smart right now.:)

As for the "ALL POWERFUL" comment... hmmmm. Seems to me that I was saying we aren't in a position to judge, since we don't have all the pertinent facts. I guess I'm just not following your logic as to how that makes me seem "all powerful."

For those who are determined to ascertain exactly what this woman should or shouldn't have done... please stop. There is no one right answer. Seems to me she made the best decision she could under the circumstances. She didn't believe her husband had any intention of harming their child, and she obviously thought that remaining in the house with her husband could potentially escalate the situation. She decided to remove herself in order to prevent that.

Sometimes the best means of protecting your children is recognizing that a show of force would only increase the risk to them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but remember that it is only that -- an opinion. Including mine.
Commentator

United States

#62 May 3, 2008
BTW Sarah - I had to go search some other blogs to find out who Rob and GR Teacher were. My limited research revealed that they appear to be rather jerk-ish. I resent the comparison. I stand in opposition of jerkiness in general, hence my comments regarding Rval2's insults and general snottiness toward Reflex.
Hey Dilldo

Lawrence, MI

#63 May 3, 2008
Lisa Jon wrote:
It's quite apparent the mother even felt the child was in danger since she, herself, called the police. Then she defends the man who put such danger on her child. She is the one who puts her child at risk because she stands up for the idiot who caused the commotion. That's sad to me. Your children should come first before another man or woman...
She didn't feel the child was in danger. She called the police because she felt that SHE was in danger, and in danger of not being able to mother her child as things stood at that moment.

Saying that the child wasn't in danger, isn't the same as "standing up for" or "putting someone else first".

It simply means that just because someone might want to blow your f'ng brains out, doesn't mean they want to blow out anyone else's, ESPECIALLY their own child. Dig?

Go read a f'ng CPS how to book or something.
Reflex

Bellevue, WA

#64 May 5, 2008
Hey - Exactly, the child was not in danger, she was. Furthermore escelating the situation with a power struggle for the child would have placed the child unnecessarily into the conflict rather than leaving it on the sidelines.
Steel Magnolia

Allendale, MI

#65 May 5, 2008
I have known the family involved for quite a few years -- have known Jake since childhood (his) and want to put a few things in perspective.

Jake, in his blogs through his service time in Iraq, could talk about nothing else except his wife and child. Jack has carries a lot of anger around on his huge shoulders (he is NOT special services)and this anger (and total denial of responsiblity) is something that has gotten him in trouble since he was little.

Blame -- no one but he needs help. Why would someone have a gun in the house with a 2 year old -- not to threaten anyone. I have seen too many people get so damn desperate they really believe everyone else would be better off if they were gone.

This young man has lost his grandmothers, job and his stablility in life in less than a year. Some compassion might, or should be forthcoming.....

BUT I find there is no excuse that there is a handgun in the house with a toddler; I find there is NO excuse to threaten anyone; I find there should be no excuses for this type of behavior but I find there is NO excuse for anyone in his family not to find him help.....which should have been done years ago.

If he is still sitting in jail because no one in his family, who have the resources to get him out and get him help, have done so.......then I am ashamed and disappointed in them.....they have be part of this "stand off".

I send good thoughts to this family -- may they find the right road of life to travel.
Hey Dilldo

Lawrence, MI

#66 May 5, 2008
Reflex wrote:
Hey - Exactly, the child was not in danger, she was. Furthermore escelating the situation with a power struggle for the child would have placed the child unnecessarily into the conflict rather than leaving it on the sidelines.
Yes, I understand. I don't know this particular family, but I am familiar with other similar cases and understand the psychology of this ever increasing problem.

She did exactly what she should have done and everyone is still alive because of it.
Reflex

Bellevue, WA

#67 May 6, 2008
Steel - I think your being a bit harsh about the handgun. I also have a handgun and have had a toddler living there when my brother stayed with me. Its very simple: If a child is in the house you keep the handgun secured and seperate from any ammunition. Mine is locked up, as it should be. Simply owning a dangerous tool dosen't make it likely to be a problem, and a child is more likely to hurt themselves on the unsecured lawnmower than on the locked away handgun.

Secondly, he is in jail for a few reasons, and no one is bailing him out because of them. I am not going to get into details on a public forum, but I fully support the family's decision to not bail Jake out.
Not too hot

Amelia Court House, VA

#68 May 6, 2008
Steel Magnolia wrote:
I have known the family involved for quite a few years -- have known Jake since childhood (his) and want to put a few things in perspective.
Jake, in his blogs through his service time in Iraq, could talk about nothing else except his wife and child. Jack has carries a lot of anger around on his huge shoulders (he is NOT special services)and this anger (and total denial of responsiblity) is something that has gotten him in trouble since he was little.
Blame -- no one but he needs help. Why would someone have a gun in the house with a 2 year old -- not to threaten anyone. I have seen too many people get so damn desperate they really believe everyone else would be better off if they were gone.
This young man has lost his grandmothers, job and his stablility in life in less than a year. Some compassion might, or should be forthcoming.....
BUT I find there is no excuse that there is a handgun in the house with a toddler; I find there is NO excuse to threaten anyone; I find there should be no excuses for this type of behavior but I find there is NO excuse for anyone in his family not to find him help.....which should have been done years ago.
If he is still sitting in jail because no one in his family, who have the resources to get him out and get him help, have done so.......then I am ashamed and disappointed in them.....they have be part of this "stand off".
I send good thoughts to this family -- may they find the right road of life to travel.
As much as I respect Jake for his service to our country and how difficult this past year has been, at some point, Jake has to take responsibility for himself. No one else can do that for him. He is an adult and it is his responsibility to seek help, not the family's. Even if they did, is there any guarantee that he will use it? You know the saying... You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You can take someone to therapy but it will never do them any good unless they are ready for it. They tell you things about yourself that are very hard to hear. They make you face your demons. They make you look at yourself in the mirror and they make you see who you really are, no matter how ugly that person it, it's not who you think you are or who you want to see. Unless he is ready for it, he will not accept it. It will do him no good.

I hope he is able to come to terms with himself and his need to get better.
Reflex

Bellevue, WA

#69 May 6, 2008
Not - Well spoken, and exactly my feelings about the issue and about Jake. And I was happy to hear that his family was not in denial about him and not willing to give him an easy out.
That is good

Lawrence, MI

#70 May 6, 2008
That his family is understanding of an underlying mental problem. It takes courage and decency to not take the easy way out and blame outside influences.

While outside influences are of course a factor in such breakdowns, to admit that there is a problem for the sake of your loved one is never easy.

Hopefully these two families can resolve this together and everyone gets the appropriate guidance to a successful resolution.

To the people who are criticizing the mother, I would suggest to think beyond your initial reaction to a few blurbs in an article.

If ever faced with a similar situation, do not escalate it and further excite an already tense situation. Sometimes the person feels that the only thing they have left or any control over is the life they helped bring into the world. To lose that there is no reason for ANYONE to walk out alive, in their delirium thought process THAT moment. This could have ended very very badly, had the mother chose the other course of action and stayed behind to play hero.

She should be applauded to be able to think on her feet given the situation she was faced with.

How many times have any of you naysayers had a gun pointed in your face?
Steel Magnolia

Allendale, MI

#71 May 6, 2008
Reflex - probably stated part of handgun incorrectly (proud member of NRA) as I should have said with someone who has problems a gun shouldn't be in the house....and I think it is apparent that Jake's problems didn't arise that day. My feelings about "bailing" Jake out -- I was thinking along the lines of getting (providing) help for him now and if he doesn't take responsibility for his actions along with rebuking the mental help offered then the jail/prison time is his own doing -- he can blame no one else except himself. Just thoughts........
Reflex

Bellevue, WA

#72 May 6, 2008
Well I know that both his wife and his family are working very very hard to get the VA involved to assist him with his mental health issues. Jail is not seen as a solution by any means. But at the same time, there is a penalty in life for actions, and I do think he deserves what he gets in that regard, but it should be combined with the mental help he needs as well.

As for the handgun issue, unfortunatly in this country anyone can own a country regardless of their mental state. I also am a proud second amendment supporter, but I do feel it is wrong that those with mental illness can easily acquire a weapon, we just saw the results of that a couple years ago when a mentally unbalanced individual shot up the Jewish Federation building in Seattle.

The real issue though is that the common person is not a psychologist. How does the average person know when their partner has crossed the line from severely depressed to unbalanced? And how do they then take the correct steps without pushing that person over the edge? In retrospect its always easy to pick that point, but when your in the middle of it your more worried about making things worse than anything else.
Grandma

United States

#73 May 7, 2008
the cops did praise her for doing the right thing. One officer said that she handled herself exceptionallly well where most women would be screaming and beside themselves.

She never actually left the property. She ran out the front door right into the arms of an officer. As far as knowing they were coming, she tried calling 911 on her broken cell, and didn't know if the call went through or not.

Also the officer said that this is becoming more common with the economy these days, and you are right. There are always problems in a marriage. You have to work them out, but I guess that the stress just got to him.

We are standing by them both and hope they get the help they need. I am not sure about his family or what they are thinking. I don't speak to them very often.
Just a thought wrote:
<quoted text>
Good for you! Do you feel better?
First of all, no one said that she should have stayed to make more trouble.
Second, according to the article, she left the house to call for help. However, according to Reflex, she knew that the cops were already on their way. Assuming Reflex is right, why then did she leave?
Third, I will grant you that apparently there is more to the story. There always is. I am willing to admit to that. We don't know what kinds of other problems the family had. However, the police officer who was interviewed seemed displeased that the mother left the baby. So from a professional standpoint, it doesn't sound like the best course of action.
Grandma

United States

#74 May 7, 2008
Reflex wrote:
Well I know that both his wife and his family are working very very hard to get the VA involved to assist him with his mental health issues. Jail is not seen as a solution by any means. But at the same time, there is a penalty in life for actions, and I do think he deserves what he gets in that regard, but it should be combined with the mental help he needs as well.
As for the handgun issue, unfortunatly in this country anyone can own a country regardless of their mental state. I also am a proud second amendment supporter, but I do feel it is wrong that those with mental illness can easily acquire a weapon, we just saw the results of that a couple years ago when a mentally unbalanced individual shot up the Jewish Federation building in Seattle.
The real issue though is that the common person is not a psychologist. How does the average person know when their partner has crossed the line from severely depressed to unbalanced? And how do they then take the correct steps without pushing that person over the edge? In retrospect its always easy to pick that point, but when your in the middle of it your more worried about making things worse than anything else.
You're right. But it's his wife and her family that are trying to get him the help he needs. They only hope that he will admit that he needs the help and ask for it.
Grandma

United States

#75 May 7, 2008
Steel Magnolia wrote:
I have known the family involved for quite a few years -- have known Jake since childhood (his) and want to put a few things in perspective.
Jake, in his blogs through his service time in Iraq, could talk about nothing else except his wife and child. Jack has carries a lot of anger around on his huge shoulders (he is NOT special services)and this anger (and total denial of responsiblity) is something that has gotten him in trouble since he was little.
Blame -- no one but he needs help. Why would someone have a gun in the house with a 2 year old -- not to threaten anyone. I have seen too many people get so damn desperate they really believe everyone else would be better off if they were gone.
This young man has lost his grandmothers, job and his stablility in life in less than a year. Some compassion might, or should be forthcoming.....
BUT I find there is no excuse that there is a handgun in the house with a toddler; I find there is NO excuse to threaten anyone; I find there should be no excuses for this type of behavior but I find there is NO excuse for anyone in his family not to find him help.....which should have been done years ago.
If he is still sitting in jail because no one in his family, who have the resources to get him out and get him help, have done so.......then I am ashamed and disappointed in them.....they have be part of this "stand off".
I send good thoughts to this family -- may they find the right road of life to travel.
You have known him since childhood?? Then you should know more than anyone why he is the way he is, but there is not a doubt in my mind what Iraq has done to him also. Also you have to make his parents PARTLY responsible because I don't care what people think, children learn what they live! Just look at what no discipline has done to society these days?? I can't believe the changes from only 30 years. He's not the first victum of this conflict and certainly won't be the last. It was a shame when Nan died. She was a really neat lady, and knew him better than his own mother I think. She as much told me so.
Steel Magnolia

Allendale, MI

#76 May 8, 2008
Grandma: I do know what you are saying -- I don't negate the Iraq faction of Jake's problem (it probably escalated it) but the problems were there years and years ago. If the parents always make excuses for a child's actions and if the child has never been held responsibile for his actions you cannot expect him to own up to his problems/responsibilities as an adult. I am sad to think his family isn't helping in this situation though -- but maybe that is for the best as they would maybe offer another excuse for Jake's actions. I am not sure who Nan is as his grandmother's name wasn't that. I think Jake would be surprised to know that there are people out here that do care about him! Keep us advised of his progress!
Not too hot

Amelia Court House, VA

#77 May 8, 2008
Steel Magnolia wrote:
If the parents always make excuses for a child's actions and if the child has never been held responsibile for his actions you cannot expect him to own up to his problems/responsibilities as an adult.
I totally disagree with that statement. We as a society most certainly should expect adults to own up to their problems and responsibilities. The more excuses that we afford irresponsible people (bad childhood, bad parents, etc...) then the less accountability in society and the fewer examples that future generations will have of the consequences of one's actions.

I understand that children learn what they live. However, as adults they have the power to change how they live. It is a sad waste when an adult holds himself to the status of victimhood for his entire life. Bad parents do not need to have that much power. The true measure of an adult is his willingness and ability to rise above his childhood and become a decent productive member of society IN SPITE OF his bad parents.

“Taz say Hi”

Since: Jan 08

Holland,MI

#78 May 8, 2008
Steel Magnolia wrote:
Grandma: I do know what you are saying -- I don't negate the Iraq faction of Jake's problem (it probably escalated it) but the problems were there years and years ago. If the parents always make excuses for a child's actions and if the child has never been held responsibile for his actions you cannot expect him to own up to his problems/responsibilities as an adult. I am sad to think his family isn't helping in this situation though -- but maybe that is for the best as they would maybe offer another excuse for Jake's actions. I am not sure who Nan is as his grandmother's name wasn't that. I think Jake would be surprised to know that there are people out here that do care about him! Keep us advised of his progress!
I wouldn't necessarily say thet his family is not helping him in this situation. Bailing him out would very likely do more harm than good. At the moment, he is most likely best off where he is, behind bars. If nothing else it will give him time to cool off and think about what he has done. In the meantime, his family can continue to try to get him help from the VA. If they haven't already, they might try contacting a local veterans organization, such as the American Legion. They have members (Veterans Service Officer)who have learned how to go about getting help.
Steel Magnolia

Allendale, MI

#79 May 9, 2008
NOT TOO HOT: As a society we should EXPECT adults to own up to their problems and responsibilities but in this case you are ASSUMING this person is an ADULT (age disregarded). And how do you EXPECT a person to act like or take on responsibilities like an ADULT if he/she DOES NOT know how or why? We EXPECT this to happen even though they have never been taught......since "children learn what they live"? Since you don't know the history of his family I think you should take a backseat to discussions of what to EXPECT out of this ADULT/CHILD. Do you really believe an age, marriage and parenthood makes an ADULT? If so, you are living in a dream world......
Steel Magnolia

Allendale, MI

#80 May 9, 2008
GENTLE TAZ: You interpreted my comments; I said, from the comment from Grandma that HIS side of the family ISN'T helping as Grandma stated it was "his wife and her family" that are trying to get him the help he needs. I know that his family has medical/social work connections and could have found a mental health person immediately to intervene and at least find out if Jacob wanted or would accept a mental health worker.....but from the blog input I hear that they aren't helping him. Can this really be believed? I do know that most people on these blogs don't have all the information, as I don't, but we are all trying to put the pieces together and help Jacob, Lisa and their child......aren't we????? Or are we just stating our opinions, as uninformed as they are????? I stand by my original statements.....Jacob needs to be helped and being in jail isn't where it starts......he has been grasping for attention through anger and self promotion for years -- time to face reality....

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