Tough test for Lowell High's Latin Lyceum

Full story: Lowell Sun 65
Are honors courses in the Latin Lyceum more rigorous than mainstream honors courses? It depends who you ask. Full Story
Observer

Methuen, MA

#21 Apr 14, 2010
The logic of this discussion escapes me. If a parent believes that a Lyceum student must work harder to get the same grade at the same weighted course and, thus, the same GPA, then the student should leave the Lyceum. That parent must believe the results - in ot out of the Lyceum - will be the same.

If, on the other hand, there are additional advantages to a Lyceum education that merit this added effort, the child should stay.
The question the parent shoud ask is not about the work required but what gives the most success after four years.
seriously

Lowell, MA

#22 Apr 14, 2010
miss informed wrote:
<quoted text>
And wohat would you suggest the school do about this? Throw down rose pedals for them? They already get a special diploma that the school has to go out and get printed especially for them. It's as if they're royalty. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
I think the Lyceum is an absurd program of entitlement so the uppidy parents in Belvidere can feel special. i know it has changed slightly, but a report came out a couple years ago about how white the Lyceum was. Probably still is.
You have got it All wrong. Once again, another bitter parent showing that their brains, or Lack Thereof, passed down to their offspring, is what actually prevented them from getting into this great program. And FYI - check for yourself - see how many students in the Lyceum are actually from Belvidere.
another mom

Billerica, MA

#23 Apr 14, 2010
Lyceum children aren't getting the highest class rankings so they want their classes weighted. Sure there are probably some honors classes where kids are doing less homework, which is the Lyceum's parents concerns, however there are also several honors classes where students are doing as much as Lyceum kids. Should those teacher's classes be weighted.

If you have Mr. Z you get this weight, but if you have Mr. A you get this weight. You are opening a big can of worms. HOnors is honors and should get the same weight. If you want it to be high honors,than you need to open the course up to any qualified students. This would in fact limit the exclusiveness of the Lyceum in freshmen year.
jake

Manchester, NH

#24 Apr 14, 2010
Observer wrote:
The logic of this discussion escapes me. If a parent believes that a Lyceum student must work harder to get the same grade at the same weighted course and, thus, the same GPA, then the student should leave the Lyceum. That parent must believe the results - in ot out of the Lyceum - will be the same.
If, on the other hand, there are additional advantages to a Lyceum education that merit this added effort, the child should stay.
The question the parent shoud ask is not about the work required but what gives the most success after four years.
agree 100%
L L student

Lowell, MA

#25 Apr 14, 2010
ok, im a freshmen in lyceum.
1. it is not all white at all
2. not all from belvidere
3. iv compared home work with friends and we do get more work but its completely manageable
4. all my teachers and graduates of lyceum have told me that the lyceum is well known by colleges so gpa/ class rank arnt that important so wats the point of this argument
Yo Man

Peabody, MA

#26 Apr 14, 2010
The Lowell School Committee are talking about 37 elite students. There priority should be to the 3,700 students at LHS. That is why this Lyceum is a joke. Yo Man from the streets of Lowell.
wow

Billerica, MA

#27 Apr 15, 2010
L L student wrote:
ok, im a freshmen in lyceum.
1. it is not all white at all
2. not all from belvidere
3. iv compared home work with friends and we do get more work but its completely manageable
4. all my teachers and graduates of lyceum have told me that the lyceum is well known by colleges so gpa/ class rank arnt that important so wats the point of this argument
Is this an example of the best and the brightest?
parent

Billerica, MA

#28 Apr 15, 2010
Do you believe that any student who wants to play basketball should be given the same chance?
Another parent

Stoneham, MA

#29 Apr 15, 2010
another mom wrote:
Lyceum children aren't getting the highest class rankings so they want their classes weighted. Sure there are probably some honors classes where kids are doing less homework, which is the Lyceum's parents concerns, however there are also several honors classes where students are doing as much as Lyceum kids. Should those teacher's classes be weighted.
If you have Mr. Z you get this weight, but if you have Mr. A you get this weight. You are opening a big can of worms. HOnors is honors and should get the same weight. If you want it to be high honors,than you need to open the course up to any qualified students. This would in fact limit the exclusiveness of the Lyceum in freshmen year.
This is exactly the problem....the Lyceum students aren't always getting the highest scores so they want their classes weighted to make up for the difference. There are honors and A/P classes that are shared by students from the Lyceum and the general population. The Lyceum students are not getting the highest grades in those classes. I know this for a fact because I know a couple of the non-Lyceum students who are getting the better grades. It KILLS the Lyceum kids that someone from outside their "world" can actually get a better grade. The work is exactly the same for each student in these class so why should the Lyceum students grades be weighted higher?

I also happen to know, for a fact, that many of the Lyceum kids share homework. One student does the English, one the Math, etc. then they share. They have study groups and just pass the work around. How do I know this? Because the parent of a non-Lyceum student who took all Honors and A/P classes was told by her student's Lyceum friends. So her child was spending a lot longer on homework than the Lyceum kids. Should her grades be weighted more?

As the Lyceum student who posted wrote (however poorly it was written), colleges know about the Lyceum so the "proper consideration" is given to those students who graduate from the program. The rest of this is just noise generated from parents who are mad that their over-achieving students aren't getting the respect their parents feel they deserve. These parents are in for a rude awakening when their kids go to college. Once you hit college, you are considered an adult by law and the college will tell you nothing about your kid. So I suggest you find a hobby to fill your time after your kid graduates from Lowell High.
An LHS parent

Stoneham, MA

#30 Apr 15, 2010
parent wrote:
Jackie Doherty has a child who is NOT in the Lyceum. Should she be excluded from voting for things NOT in the Lyceum?
Jackie has one child at LHS right now (non-Lyceum) and another who will start at the Lyceum next year. It's unfair to point the finger at Jackie or Alison Laraba. They are certainly entitled to their own opinions especially about what they personally experience. However, I don't think either of them will allow this to cloud their better judgement. I don't know Alison well but Jackie has proven her mettle during her tenure on the School Committee. Let's wait until she screws up before we hang her in the parkway.
detail

Lowell, MA

#31 Apr 15, 2010
It is not the weighting in the same class. Yes if two students, one lyceum and one not, are in the same exact class, then it does not matter. What matters is that students in lyceum are doing more in the freshman classes like seminar and receiving the same credit as those who are not in lyceum, taking seminar in another class.
seriously

Lowell, MA

#32 Apr 15, 2010
wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this an example of the best and the brightest?
Don't be so picky; looking for errors perhaps? He/She is probably too tired from all the homework! It's the Content of the message that really counts, especially in these blogs.
noticing

Lowell, MA

#33 Apr 15, 2010
Another parent wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly the problem....the Lyceum students aren't always getting the highest scores so they want their classes weighted to make up for the difference. There are honors and A/P classes that are shared by students from the Lyceum and the general population. The Lyceum students are not getting the highest grades in those classes. I know this for a fact because I know a couple of the non-Lyceum students who are getting the better grades. It KILLS the Lyceum kids that someone from outside their "world" can actually get a better grade. The work is exactly the same for each student in these class so why should the Lyceum students grades be weighted higher?
I also happen to know, for a fact, that many of the Lyceum kids share homework. One student does the English, one the Math, etc. then they share. They have study groups and just pass the work around. How do I know this? Because the parent of a non-Lyceum student who took all Honors and A/P classes was told by her student's Lyceum friends. So her child was spending a lot longer on homework than the Lyceum kids. Should her grades be weighted more?
As the Lyceum student who posted wrote (however poorly it was written), colleges know about the Lyceum so the "proper consideration" is given to those students who graduate from the program. The rest of this is just noise generated from parents who are mad that their over-achieving students aren't getting the respect their parents feel they deserve. These parents are in for a rude awakening when their kids go to college. Once you hit college, you are considered an adult by law and the college will tell you nothing about your kid. So I suggest you find a hobby to fill your time after your kid graduates from Lowell High.
Your resentment and jealousy is SEETHING in this post. And by the way, with so many "I know for a fact(s)" - You sound like you are in high school. Grow up.
Lowellian

Lowell, MA

#34 Apr 15, 2010
If the rigor, testing, homework, and other forms of assessment are the same, then the weight should be the same, no matter Lyceum or not.

However, if any of the above is different, then the weighting should be different.

Same goes for college level classes.

Why is this controversial?
LHS mom

Lowell, MA

#35 Apr 15, 2010
There are parents in the school who have children in the Lyceum and not in the Lyceum (like I do).

We see that our kids take the same courses, for example, Honors Biology, and we see that the Lyceum child has more homework, is not allowed to take the test home to study, and does not have the same requirements for projects. We see our child who is the better student getting lower grades, and so we are trying to make sense of it all.

Probably what the real issue here is quality control. There is none at Lowell High. Sometimes you get a great teacher (rigorous, but know how to help students learn), sometimes a child gets a teacher who is demanding, but doesn't know how to convey the information to the students, so the students work really hard but don't learn much. Sometimes a student gets a teacher who requires very little and in the same subject another student can get a teacher who doesn't even care if the students learn.

I think that is the biggest problem. No one is controlling the quality of the teaching, so kids randomly get good teachers or bad teachers.

I wish the school cared about ALL students getting good teachers. My older child had a Spanish teacher a few years ago who made her make Spanish food for class all the time. She was such a bad teacher that the class started with 17 students and ended up with only 5. It was the only C she ever got on her report card. She should have dropped the class like most of the others. I am glad one child is in the Lyceum. Even if the courses are more difficult (and they are!), at least they won't randomly get bad teachers like that Spanish teacher.

Yes, LHS has other very, very good teachers. But they also have very bad teachers and it is the luck of the draw.
Lyceum parent

Burlington, MA

#36 Apr 15, 2010
What most folk fail to realize is the Lyceum Program is OPTIONAL. Those kids who are in the Lyceum chose to get up that Saturday morning and take the placement test knowing they had what it took to get accepted.The Lyceum kids workload is much more significant than the kids who take Honors classes. Swap some Lyceum and Honors kids for a week and let them tell you first hand the differences between the two. If the weight/course study of the Lyceum program mirrors that of the Honors course then why was the Lyceum created? Hmmm...
An LHS parent

Stoneham, MA

#37 Apr 15, 2010
noticing wrote:
<quoted text>
Your resentment and jealousy is SEETHING in this post. And by the way, with so many "I know for a fact(s)" - You sound like you are in high school. Grow up.
This statement is proof that some posters can only respond to posts with differing opinions with name calling. I am just trying to add to the conversation by sharing experiences I have had myself. I have zero resentment or jealousy for anyone, student or parent, who participates in the Lyceum. I know several Lyceum students who are wonderful kids who will do exceedingly well in college and their parents are supportive of them and LHS in general. But I also know students and parents who do behave as if they are entitled to better treatment be it through weighted grades or what have you. Perhaps you have experienced something different. The only way to educate someone with a different viewpoint is to share your experiences. I never claimed to be a mind-reader.

My kid has done quite well at LHS without being a part of the Lyceum and has been accepted to every college to which she applied. She has a bright future and I'm grateful that she received an excellent education at such a large public school like LHS.

The reason why I wrote "I know for a fact" is to emphasize that I am not repeating gossip. These are things that either I or my child have experienced personally. I have no need to "grow up" as I already am a grown up.
Lyceum parent

Burlington, MA

#38 Apr 15, 2010
...I just read the post of kids sharing homework. That is funny because sharing homework doesn't guarantee you will learn the lesson. These kids are learning or they would be removed from the program.

As far as the Lyceum kids being all from a certain section of town or being of a certain heritage, that is a load of crap. My daughter is African American and does not live off of Andover St. Your theory has no basis.

I agree with the 'LHS Mom" where ALL kids should be cared for and pushed to do their best but lets not leave it to the schools to do a "parents' job. Education starts at home as a parent is the child's first and most important teacher.

And "Lowellian" it is controversial because the School Committee wants to cut the program. Why should the kids suffer for the city/state being over budget? Why not have the school Committee work for free? Or have the chief of police/fire department drive their own cars to work instead of a city issued, owned and gassed car? There are a lot of cuts that can be made but the school department should be the last to go under the knife.
miss informed

Lowell, MA

#39 Apr 15, 2010
Lyceum parent wrote:
...I just read the post of kids sharing homework. That is funny because sharing homework doesn't guarantee you will learn the lesson. These kids are learning or they would be removed from the program.
As far as the Lyceum kids being all from a certain section of town or being of a certain heritage, that is a load of crap. My daughter is African American and does not live off of Andover St. Your theory has no basis.
I agree with the 'LHS Mom" where ALL kids should be cared for and pushed to do their best but lets not leave it to the schools to do a "parents' job. Education starts at home as a parent is the child's first and most important teacher.
And "Lowellian" it is controversial because the School Committee wants to cut the program. Why should the kids suffer for the city/state being over budget? Why not have the school Committee work for free? Or have the chief of police/fire department drive their own cars to work instead of a city issued, owned and gassed car? There are a lot of cuts that can be made but the school department should be the last to go under the knife.
If you want all this special treatment, how about you pay an additional fee in order for your child to be part of this "elite" program? Otherwise, you're asking the school committee to continue funding a "seperate but equal" program that you admit is better than the traditional LHS education.
another voice heard from

Wellesley Hills, MA

#40 Apr 15, 2010
LHS Parent wrote:
As a parent I understand that Ms Doherty and Ms Laraba who have a child in or about to enter the Lyceum would want the best for their child, however as a taxpayer and a parent of a LHS student I think they should excuse themselves from any vote regarding the Lyceum.(along with any other committee member who has a conflict of interest)
Lets remember they were elected to represent the best interest of all the students of the city not just a select few , including their own best interest.
Using that logic than Ms Doherty, Ms Laraba and Mr. Leahy would have to excuse themselves from any vote regarding the Lowell Public School System as they have children in the system. If you feel they do not look to ensure the best interests of all students then don't vote for them in the next election. Better still-run for a position yourself! The issue is not about Jrs and Snrs sharing the same class and having the same weight. The issue is making sure that an honors class outside the lycuem and an honors class inside the lyceum have the same rigor, expectations, quality of instruction, homework and testing. The problem is that doesn't appear to be the case. Fix the discrepencies in course work for the same subject honors class and the request for different weighting goes away.

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