Firefighter salaries

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Since: Jul 11

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#573
Sep 21, 2011
 

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Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> We don't consider you to be "suckers", we consider you to be ignorant! If you idiots would have chosen a government career over a private sector one, you would not be here crying your eyes out today.
"Ignorant,Idiots"... ....you made my point. You are a just Slavers!
infowarrior1999

Salem, NH

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#574
Sep 21, 2011
 
Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> Do you get paid to walk into burning buildings, or are you just afraid that you might step on a banana peel?
about me pre 911 active military 99-2009...yeah iraqi freedom.. i was there.
Anamouse

Manhattan Beach, CA

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#575
Sep 22, 2011
 

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Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> I think you should move out of California! We don't need cheap bastards who don't want to pay the people who are out there saving their lives every day.
Sooo why are you so mad at me, I didn't make you promises that any high school graduate could have told you couldn't be kept.

You're pension may become insolvent a little faster because people like me are leaving Calif, but it's not like it would have remained solvent if we all stayed; there never were going to be enough people working to pay for the pension you were promised after you retired, that's the point.

It was a hollow promise and your GREAT UNION was more than happy to mislead you, so why aren't you screaming at them. They actually put you in this situation.

And by the way, I know several ex-firefighters and policemen who have already retired in other states, they say to escape California. They took their tax money with them, so are they "Cheap Bastards" too, or are they somehow exempt from your wrath because their your buddies?

And how about you, will you stay here after you're retired and pay higher and higher taxes, or will you finally throw in with the others who realized that they could retire with a much better standard of living, just by leaving California, and all the madness behind?

Who knows, as you pension becomes more and more devalued, you too just might become one of those "CHEAP BASTARDS", you think are such jerks now.

And just for the record, are you so fiscally morally upstanding in the other fiscal aspects of your life too. Do you refuse to buy things like clothes made in China, and never set foot in non-union stores like Walmart, or are you a hipocrit who just wishes the rest of us would diminish our own lives so that you can retire in luxury?

And for the record, I think Farmers do more to lay their lives down for me than Firefighters do, and the statistics back me up. Firefighers might have the opportunity to do stupid thing and die, just like electricians, but statistically they seem to perfer to play it safe, as is reflected in their death on the job statistics. When I think about people who put it on the line so that I can live better I think of our military, not Firefighters who get great pay and rarely get killed on the job.

If your occupation scares the heck out of you you should get another job, not whine about it like a crybaby.

Since: Jul 11

Los Angeles, CA

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#576
Sep 22, 2011
 
Anamouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me give you some numbers so you can have someone who understands high school math explain this to you.
If you go to our states tax site:
http://www.tax-rates.org/California/income-ta...
You can see the California tax rates and approximate amounts all California residents pay in State tax. According to them:
If you make $15K,(like most illegals, you pay $300 in Calif taxes
If you make $45K,(kind of average), y ou pay $3,600 in Calif taxes
I make much more so I pay much more in Calif taxes if I stay here
If you make $100K, your Calif tax bill is $10K
So if I retire in Arizona where there is no state tax and buy a $75K vacation condo, and call it my primary residence, I will save more money in Calif taxes that I will no longer have to pay, than it will cost me to pay off the condo.
My payments will be approimately $4K a year, for my 2 bedroom condo, and I can rent one room out to someone else so the place is never vacant, and I don't have to pay for the whole thing myself.
My phone is a VOIP phone, and I can drive back and forth, so no one will even know how much time I continue to spend in Calif.
Now bad when you figure California actually got me to leave and take all my tax money with me, just by taxing me so much that my accountant told me it would PAY for me to "leave" the state.
Now Mr. Fireman, tell me why other affluent people just like me won't also be listening to their accountants and taking their tax money, and our retirement funding, with them just like I will?
I've been having this EXACT SAME conversation with my accountant (who, incidentally has this same plan for himself) for the last 8 years and have been structuring my exit strategy since the very first meeting. It's sad, but just about every financial move I make (of more than minor consequence) has to be considered in light of this game plan to maximize the amount that will be transferred out of state when it's time to blow the escape hatch, bail out and pull the rip cord. Worse yet for the economy, I have been forced (by planning) to transfer assets to other places IN ADVANCE of my departure to take advantage of opportunities not available here in California.
Anamouse

Manhattan Beach, CA

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#577
Sep 22, 2011
 
SonOfTC wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been having this EXACT SAME conversation with my accountant (who, incidentally has this same plan for himself) for the last 8 years and have been structuring my exit strategy since the very first meeting. It's sad, but just about every financial move I make (of more than minor consequence) has to be considered in light of this game plan to maximize the amount that will be transferred out of state when it's time to blow the escape hatch, bail out and pull the rip cord. Worse yet for the economy, I have been forced (by planning) to transfer assets to other places IN ADVANCE of my departure to take advantage of opportunities not available here in California.
Not everyone I know who has money is planning to leave, but all of them who are not tied to a union have at least looked at how much they can save by leaving.

All of those whose taxable income is more than about $80K per year, are now realizing that in a wierd twist of irony, California is practically paying them to buy another residence in a tax free state, by saying, if you stay here you'll pay more in Calif Taxes than the mortgauge would be. How stupid is that.

All these folks who think we can keep piling more and more taxes on the rich need to realize that the rich aren't trapped here and once we tax them too much and they leave, they take ALL their tax money with them.

I think most people look at their Calif tax bill and figure it's not big enough to do much with, but they forget people who make much more then they do, pay much much much more than tax they do, and often it's more than enough to buy another home or a condo somewhere else, and call that their new primary residence.

Instead all they hear are the politicians telling them that the rich don't pay their fair share, and we have to take more from them. We never hear politicians say the rich pay most of the taxes, and if we squeeze them too hard their going to go somewhere else and then we'll stop getting what they already pay.

Every time we chase someone who makes $1 million a year out of the state, we loose $100,000 in state taxes, which is more than what 20 $50K a year taxpayers pay all together.

Oh and it is also equal to the Calif taxes paid by over 300 minimum wage taxpayers, before they receive MORE than they pay in the form of subsidizies.

It's likely Calif will always be full of people, but unlikly those that choose to stay and continue paying our state's taxes will be affluent enough to keep all these government employees retired in the style they were promised.
Firefighter

Los Angeles, CA

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#578
Sep 22, 2011
 

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Alamitos Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
"Ignorant,Idiots"... ....you made my point. You are a just Slavers!
I beg to differ. You are the idiots who are "slaving" to pay for our salaries and benefits.
Firefighter

Los Angeles, CA

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#579
Sep 22, 2011
 
infowarrior1999 wrote:
<quoted text>about me pre 911 active military 99-2009...yeah iraqi freedom.. i was there.
Then you deserve lots of extra compensation for your risk! I would be the first to back you.
Firefighter

Los Angeles, CA

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#580
Sep 22, 2011
 

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Anamouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Sooo why are you so mad at me, I didn't make you promises that any high school graduate could have told you couldn't be kept.
You're pension may become insolvent a little faster because people like me are leaving Calif, but it's not like it would have remained solvent if we all stayed; there never were going to be enough people working to pay for the pension you were promised after you retired, that's the point.
It was a hollow promise and your GREAT UNION was more than happy to mislead you, so why aren't you screaming at them. They actually put you in this situation.
And by the way, I know several ex-firefighters and policemen who have already retired in other states, they say to escape California. They took their tax money with them, so are they "Cheap Bastards" too, or are they somehow exempt from your wrath because their your buddies?
And how about you, will you stay here after you're retired and pay higher and higher taxes, or will you finally throw in with the others who realized that they could retire with a much better standard of living, just by leaving California, and all the madness behind?
Who knows, as you pension becomes more and more devalued, you too just might become one of those "CHEAP BASTARDS", you think are such jerks now.
And just for the record, are you so fiscally morally upstanding in the other fiscal aspects of your life too. Do you refuse to buy things like clothes made in China, and never set foot in non-union stores like Walmart, or are you a hipocrit who just wishes the rest of us would diminish our own lives so that you can retire in luxury?
And for the record, I think Farmers do more to lay their lives down for me than Firefighters do, and the statistics back me up. Firefighers might have the opportunity to do stupid thing and die, just like electricians, but statistically they seem to perfer to play it safe, as is reflected in their death on the job statistics. When I think about people who put it on the line so that I can live better I think of our military, not Firefighters who get great pay and rarely get killed on the job.
If your occupation scares the heck out of you you should get another job, not whine about it like a crybaby.
I'm not mad at you, I feel sorry for you! We have absolutely no doubt that the government will honor the contracts it has entered into, just the way it always has. And by the way, I have accumulated more than enough money to retire in style right here in California! You idiots can escape to some economyville in the middle of nowhere.

Since: Jul 11

Los Angeles, CA

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#581
Sep 22, 2011
 
Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> I'm not mad at you, I feel sorry for you! We have absolutely no doubt that the government will honor the contracts it has entered into, just the way it always has. And by the way, I have accumulated more than enough money to retire in style right here in California! You idiots can escape to some economyville in the middle of nowhere.
"Economyville" is not the destination. The idea is to go somewhere where your money stays with you, rather than the Government. And, get bigger, nicer residences. Personally, I'm looking for ranch property.
anonymous

Los Angeles, CA

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#582
Sep 22, 2011
 
SonOfTC wrote:
<quoted text>
"Economyville" is not the destination. The idea is to go somewhere where your money stays with you, rather than the Government. And, get bigger, nicer residences. Personally, I'm looking for ranch property.
In many states the prices of houses are much lower but the property taxes are much higher than in california.

Since: Jul 11

Los Angeles, CA

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#583
Sep 23, 2011
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
In many states the prices of houses are much lower but the property taxes are much higher than in california.
Agreed. Most states don't have the same Prop. 13 caps like we do in California. One has to be aware of such things before making any kind of commitment. Thanks for bringing this up.
Firefighter

Los Angeles, CA

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#584
Sep 24, 2011
 
SonOfTC wrote:
<quoted text>
"Economyville" is not the destination. The idea is to go somewhere where your money stays with you, rather than the Government. And, get bigger, nicer residences. Personally, I'm looking for ranch property.
Well good luck to you! There are plenty of places in America where you can get lots of land quite cheap. And you won't have to pay any firefighters because they will all be volunteers!
Firefighter

Los Angeles, CA

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#585
Sep 24, 2011
 
SonOfTC wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. Most states don't have the same Prop. 13 caps like we do in California. One has to be aware of such things before making any kind of commitment. Thanks for bringing this up.
Do some comparative shopping. There are places in America where the property taxes are less than California, even with Prop. 13! And your insurance risk from fire, flood or earthquakes will be much lower, and thus much less expensive.

Since: Jul 11

Los Angeles, CA

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#586
Sep 24, 2011
 
Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> Do some comparative shopping. There are places in America where the property taxes are less than California, even with Prop. 13! And your insurance risk from fire, flood or earthquakes will be much lower, and thus much less expensive.
Exactly on point.
Anamouse

Manhattan Beach, CA

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#587
Sep 26, 2011
 
Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> I'm not mad at you, I feel sorry for you! We have absolutely no doubt that the government will honor the contracts it has entered into, just the way it always has. And by the way, I have accumulated more than enough money to retire in style right here in California! You idiots can escape to some economyville in the middle of nowhere.
I'm sure you know that for the rest of us the retirement benefits we were promised via Social Security and Medicare are both being cut back in response to the anticipated lack of future workers, per retired person, and those were promises too.

So if our government is so willing and able to cut those promised benefits back, just why do you think they would make an excepton and keep their promises to you guys?

And I know you were promised those benefits, but please explain where you believe their going to get all the money it would take to pay all your benefits when about 1 person is trying to collect retirement benifit money from 2 eople who are still working,(oh and also trying to feed themselves)?

In 1940 there were 149 workers per SS retiree, easy to collect enough from 149 people to retire one.

In 1950 there were 16 per retired person, still not so bad, and they had alot of money saved up to help

In 2010 it was less than 3 workers per retired person, and they can see that their running out of the money they saved real fast. They were already taking 15% from the employee and another 15% from the employeer, so at 3 to 1 workers lost 30% of their pay right off the top, to pay for benifits at the existing ratio, it isn't enough.

EVEN WORSE, and what directly effects your retirement is the fact that without a bankaccount to take money out of, the only way to keep all these and your retirement benefits going, is to tax the heck out of the people who are working, so they can hand that money to people who are retired.

Your pension is completely unfunded, so it never had a savings account to help fund any of your retirement. It counts 100% on future politicians being able to raise enough taxes to pay for it.

When the ratio is 2 to 1 they would have to take something like 60% of what all workers make, right off the top, just to pay for the retirement benefits the have promised everyone, including you and me. Do you really think they can do that, and pay the interest on the debt, and pay off the debt, and then add on all the taxes they need to add on, to pay for everyting else that taxes pay for today?

You may have a great contract, but get real and do a little math. The only way I can imagine they could keep there promises to you is if they decide your retirement is more important than almost everything else in the budget inlcuding social security and medicare.

Oh and remember, if they drive inflation way up, you might get exactly what they promised but it'll be worth almost nothing in purchasing power.
oldbrown

Sparks, NV

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#588
Sep 26, 2011
 
You claim that the pension of "Firefighter" is completely unfunded. You don't even know what entity he works for so how would you know anything about his pension fund?

Regarding your claim that "you and me" are promised S.S. benefits; safety members (for the most part) don't pay into S.S., therefore they don't receive S.S. benefits. You're the one that needs to worry about receiving S.S. benefits, not safety members.
Anamouse

Manhattan Beach, CA

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#589
Sep 26, 2011
 
oldbrown wrote:
You claim that the pension of "Firefighter" is completely unfunded. You don't even know what entity he works for so how would you know anything about his pension fund?
Regarding your claim that "you and me" are promised S.S. benefits; safety members (for the most part) don't pay into S.S., therefore they don't receive S.S. benefits. You're the one that needs to worry about receiving S.S. benefits, not safety members.
Yes I have said in earlier posts, I am very aware that my SS is in a very similar position, and no I'm not counting on it. How could I; it's not tough to do the math and too many people just like me will be retiring at a time when there will be too few workers to pay for their benefits.

You're right I don't know "his" pension intimately" but so far I haven't heard of a firefighter's penson that is fully funded, and so far no firefighters have said, "the one I have with XXX is fully funded".

So far every one I have heard of is counting on future taxes to pay for the whole bananna and the reason why is because that was a promise politicians could make to pacify their union, without taking any money out of their current budget.

"I can't pay you more now, but I promise that after I'm out of office, and you retire, future taxpayers will pay you more".

Oh and if they still believe that, I bet someone will sell them a bridge to go along with that very generous pension.

However there's no reason to worry now, everyone who retires in the next few years will enjoy their full benefits, for a while. But just like with Madoff, where it took years for the bottom to fall out, one day it will, and then they will just have to learn to leve with what's left.
Firefighter

Los Angeles, CA

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#590
Sep 27, 2011
 
Anamouse wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure you know that for the rest of us the retirement benefits we were promised via Social Security and Medicare are both being cut back in response to the anticipated lack of future workers, per retired person, and those were promises too.
So if our government is so willing and able to cut those promised benefits back, just why do you think they would make an excepton and keep their promises to you guys?
And I know you were promised those benefits, but please explain where you believe their going to get all the money it would take to pay all your benefits when about 1 person is trying to collect retirement benifit money from 2 eople who are still working,(oh and also trying to feed themselves)?
In 1940 there were 149 workers per SS retiree, easy to collect enough from 149 people to retire one.
In 1950 there were 16 per retired person, still not so bad, and they had alot of money saved up to help
In 2010 it was less than 3 workers per retired person, and they can see that their running out of the money they saved real fast. They were already taking 15% from the employee and another 15% from the employeer, so at 3 to 1 workers lost 30% of their pay right off the top, to pay for benifits at the existing ratio, it isn't enough.
EVEN WORSE, and what directly effects your retirement is the fact that without a bankaccount to take money out of, the only way to keep all these and your retirement benefits going, is to tax the heck out of the people who are working, so they can hand that money to people who are retired.
Your pension is completely unfunded, so it never had a savings account to help fund any of your retirement. It counts 100% on future politicians being able to raise enough taxes to pay for it.
When the ratio is 2 to 1 they would have to take something like 60% of what all workers make, right off the top, just to pay for the retirement benefits the have promised everyone, including you and me. Do you really think they can do that, and pay the interest on the debt, and pay off the debt, and then add on all the taxes they need to add on, to pay for everyting else that taxes pay for today?
You may have a great contract, but get real and do a little math. The only way I can imagine they could keep there promises to you is if they decide your retirement is more important than almost everything else in the budget inlcuding social security and medicare.
Oh and remember, if they drive inflation way up, you might get exactly what they promised but it'll be worth almost nothing in purchasing power.
You are living in a dream world. The richest country on earth will always find a way to pay its obligations, just like it always has. If necessary, future generations will be the ones who will eventually pay to cover today's obligations. No need for you to be upset, because you won't be here to worry about it.
lastoutlaw

Studio City, CA

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#591
Sep 27, 2011
 
Firefighter wrote:
<quoted text> You are living in a dream world. The richest country on earth will always find a way to pay its obligations, just like it always has. If necessary, future generations will be the ones who will eventually pay to cover today's obligations. No need for you to be upset, because you won't be here to worry about it.
Nice guy.
I wonder....
How would you feel if, 100 years ago - 50 years ago, your forebears thought the same as you and YOU were stuck footing the bill? Forget that it didn't happen; what IF?
You'd hate yourself right now. But of course; you wouldn't be there to worry about it.
oldbrown

Sparks, NV

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#592
Sep 28, 2011
 
"forebears"?

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