Tired of paying all of these unlawful...

Tired of paying all of these unlawful taxes!!

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Taxed to death

Jacksonville, FL

#1 Feb 18, 2009
Is anyone else besides me absolutely sick and tired of having to pay these completely unlawful taxes that we pay? We all ( that work) work hard for our money, only to see about half of it dwindle away as taxes for no reason whatsoever. That is our money. We traded a service for it by going to our job, doing a job that they needed done, which we happened to be trained to do, in exchange for our service they trade us money. That is not a profit and is not supposed to be taxed. IN the old days if you went and done work for a person they would pay you by giving you maybe a cow, goat or some other. It was an exchange and it still is an exchange. there is no profit being made to tax. A tax should happen when you go buy let's say a pair of shoes for $25 and sell them for $45. then that profit of $20 that you made should be taxed, not the shole $45. Wake up and be educated people, we're being robbed by the Amendment that never was, the 16th Amendment, look it up. "the amendment that never was"

“Life is good!”

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Ginowan, Okinawa Japan

#2 Feb 18, 2009
Taxed to death wrote:
Is anyone else besides me absolutely sick and tired of having to pay these completely unlawful taxes that we pay? We all ( that work) work hard for our money, only to see about half of it dwindle away as taxes for no reason whatsoever. That is our money. We traded a service for it by going to our job, doing a job that they needed done, which we happened to be trained to do, in exchange for our service they trade us money. That is not a profit and is not supposed to be taxed. IN the old days if you went and done work for a person they would pay you by giving you maybe a cow, goat or some other. It was an exchange and it still is an exchange. there is no profit being made to tax. A tax should happen when you go buy let's say a pair of shoes for $25 and sell them for $45. then that profit of $20 that you made should be taxed, not the shole $45. Wake up and be educated people, we're being robbed by the Amendment that never was, the 16th Amendment, look it up. "the amendment that never was"
Are you freakin stupid or something? Where do you think the money comes from to build schools, bridges, roads, hospitals, military, etc. Do you have any idea what this place would look like if our government did not collect taxes?
Taxed to death

Jacksonville, FL

#3 Feb 18, 2009
butch8879 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you freakin stupid or something? Where do you think the money comes from to build schools, bridges, roads, hospitals, military, etc. Do you have any idea what this place would look like if our government did not collect taxes?
I am only trying to educate you on reality. The problem is this, everytime someone comes and tries to bring something like this to people's attention, everyone immediately thinks that the messenger is some wacko or something. You ask if I'm freakin stupid or something, but I am the one that has spent the time to research the laws and court cases about this topic and how the "law that never was" came to be in the first place. You are the one that is misinformed on the subject. You ask if we don't pay taxes how will all of these things be paid for that you mentioned. Here's an example: The roads are not paid for by the money that comes from our income taxes. The roads are paid for from the money that comes from the sales taxes that we pay on gas. I am not against sales tax. I am against income tax. I have 2 legitimate questions for you now sir. Why are you so "for" paying taxes? Have you ever seen the law that says that we are supposed to pay Income taxes? Heres a challenge for you.....spend a little time trying to find that law! Seriously. After you look for it and try to find it, then come back and call me stupid or something.

“Life is good!”

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Ginowan, Okinawa Japan

#4 Feb 18, 2009
Taxed to death wrote:
<quoted text>
I am only trying to educate you on reality. The problem is this, everytime someone comes and tries to bring something like this to people's attention, everyone immediately thinks that the messenger is some wacko or something. You ask if I'm freakin stupid or something, but I am the one that has spent the time to research the laws and court cases about this topic and how the "law that never was" came to be in the first place. You are the one that is misinformed on the subject. You ask if we don't pay taxes how will all of these things be paid for that you mentioned. Here's an example: The roads are not paid for by the money that comes from our income taxes. The roads are paid for from the money that comes from the sales taxes that we pay on gas. I am not against sales tax. I am against income tax. I have 2 legitimate questions for you now sir. Why are you so "for" paying taxes? Have you ever seen the law that says that we are supposed to pay Income taxes? Heres a challenge for you.....spend a little time trying to find that law! Seriously. After you look for it and try to find it, then come back and call me stupid or something.
Sales tax goes to pay for state roads. Interstate Highways are payed for out of the general fund, which is the money from income tax. Also income tax pays for medicare, medicaid, military spending, and the national debt. Just be thankful you aren't in the UK and paying nearly 70%.

Oh and by the way the 16th Amendment was passed with more that enough states ratifying it. At the time, there were 42 states. 75% were needed to pass. 42 x .75 = 32 (with rounding). 36 states voted for it. More than enough.
KRAKEE

Huntington, WV

#5 Feb 18, 2009
"The federal government of the United States imposes a progressive tax on the taxable income of individuals, partnerships, companies, corporations, trusts, decedents' estates, and certain bankruptcy estates. Some state and municipal governments also impose income taxes. The first Federal income tax was imposed (under Article I, section 8, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution) during the Civil War, then again in the 1890s, and again after the Sixteenth Amendment was ratified in 1913. Current income taxes are imposed under these constitutional provisions and various sections of Subtitle A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, including 26 U.S.C.§ 1 (imposing income tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates and trusts) and 26 U.S.C.§ 11 (imposing income tax on the taxable income of corporations)."

Wikipedia.

I took the time to research, too. It took all of 1 minute. I say you don't want to pay taxes, then fine. Don't send your kids to public schools. If you are the victim of a crime, don't call the police. If your house is on fire, don't call the fire department. If you're seriously injured, don't call an ambulance.

Don't drive on the interstate highway system. Since everything you buy was brought to you by a truck using these highways, I guess you can't buy anything either. Taxes help, you retard. We need taxes.
what

Saint Louis, MO

#6 Feb 18, 2009
Taxed to death wrote:
Is anyone else besides me absolutely sick and tired of having to pay these completely unlawful taxes that we pay? We all ( that work) work hard for our money, only to see about half of it dwindle away as taxes for no reason whatsoever. That is our money. We traded a service for it by going to our job, doing a job that they needed done, which we happened to be trained to do, in exchange for our service they trade us money. That is not a profit and is not supposed to be taxed. IN the old days if you went and done work for a person they would pay you by giving you maybe a cow, goat or some other. It was an exchange and it still is an exchange. there is no profit being made to tax. A tax should happen when you go buy let's say a pair of shoes for $25 and sell them for $45. then that profit of $20 that you made should be taxed, not the shole $45. Wake up and be educated people, we're being robbed by the Amendment that never was, the 16th Amendment, look it up. "the amendment that never was"
I now feel like a complete dumbass after reading this!
Taxed to death

Marietta, GA

#7 Feb 18, 2009
KRAKEE wrote:
"The federal government of the United States imposes a progressive tax on the taxable income of individuals, partnerships, companies, corporations, trusts, decedents' estates, and certain bankruptcy estates. Some state and municipal governments also impose income taxes. The first Federal income tax was imposed (under Article I, section 8, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution) during the Civil War, then again in the 1890s, and again after the Sixteenth Amendment was ratified in 1913. Current income taxes are imposed under these constitutional provisions and various sections of Subtitle A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, including 26 U.S.C.§ 1 (imposing income tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates and trusts) and 26 U.S.C.§ 11 (imposing income tax on the taxable income of corporations)."
Wikipedia.
I took the time to research, too. It took all of 1 minute. I say you don't want to pay taxes, then fine. Don't send your kids to public schools. If you are the victim of a crime, don't call the police. If your house is on fire, don't call the fire department. If you're seriously injured, don't call an ambulance.
Don't drive on the interstate highway system. Since everything you buy was brought to you by a truck using these highways, I guess you can't buy anything either. Taxes help, you retard. We need taxes.
Krakee, look at what you posted. Look at the first line. It says a progressive tax on taxable income. What is taxable income? If you look at my first post I explain what taxable income is. What you make for going to your job and "exchanging" your trade for a service that they need done is a trade-off. There is no profit being made by anybody. They need something done, you have the skill to do it....This is an exchange. Believe me I am not trying to make this stuff up, this is the truth! If you purchase something an item for one price, then sell it for another price that is higher then the difference in those prices is a profit. That profit is taxable income. You didn't find anything that I didn't already know about. There are many, many court cases where people have been taken to the Supreme Court by the IRS for not paying taxes on their income and the people have beaten the IRS because IRS was not able to prove that that person's income was taxable income, because it wasn't. Your next question is, "then why don't we see this on the news?" You don't see it on the news because a case like this sets a precedent and our government does not want the American public knowing that the IRS is losing court cases like this. What would happen if CNN started airing stories where this happened? How many people would realize that they don't have to pay income taxes and lawfully stop paying them. Please, don't just be a drone that believes everything that is spoon fed to you.
Taxed to death

Marietta, GA

#8 Feb 18, 2009
butch8879 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sales tax goes to pay for state roads. Interstate Highways are payed for out of the general fund, which is the money from income tax. Also income tax pays for medicare, medicaid, military spending, and the national debt. Just be thankful you aren't in the UK and paying nearly 70%.
Oh and by the way the 16th Amendment was passed with more that enough states ratifying it. At the time, there were 42 states. 75% were needed to pass. 42 x .75 = 32 (with rounding). 36 states voted for it. More than enough.
Please, take the time to read this before you respond to what I'm telling you. I copied and pasted it so that I could show you the info without messing up the facts of it.

Article V of the U.S. Constitution specifies the ratification process, and requires 3/4 of the States to ratify any amendment proposed by Congress. There were 48 States in the American Union in 1913, meaning that affirmative action of 36 states was required for ratification. In February, 1913, Secretary of State Philander Knox issued a proclamation claiming that 38 states had ratified the amendment.

In 1984, William J. Benson began a research project, never before performed, to investigate the process of ratification of the 16th Amendment. After traveling to the capitols of the New England states, and reviewing the journals of the state legislative bodies, he saw that many states had not ratified the Amendment. Continuing his research at the National Archives in Washington, DC, Bill Benson discovered his Golden Key. This damning piece of evidence is a 16 page memorandum from the Solicitor of the Department of State, whose duty is the provision of legal opinions for the use of the Secretary of State. In this memorandum sent to the Secretary of State, the Solicitor of the Department of State lists the many errors he found in the ratification process!

The 4 states listed below are among the 38 states that Philander Knox claimed ratification from.

* The Kentucky Senate voted upon the resolution, but rejected it by a vote of 9 in favor and 22 opposed.
* The Oklahoma Senate amended the language of the 16th Amendment to have a precisely opposite meaning.
* The California legislative assembly never recorded any vote upon any proposal to adopt the amendment proposed by Congress.
* The State of Minnesota sent nothing to the Secretary of State in Washington.

When his year long project was finished at the end of 1984, Bill had visited every state capitol and knew that not a single state had actually and legally ratified the proposal to amend the Constitution. 33 states engaged in the unauthorized activity of amending the language of the amendment proposed by congress, a power the states do not possess. Since 36 states were needed for ratification, the failure of 13 to ratify would be fatal to the amendment, and this occurs within the major (first three) defects tabulated in Defects in Ratification of the 16th Amendment. Even if we were to ignore defects of spelling, capitalization, and punctuation, we would still have only 2 states which successfully ratified.

"If you...examined [The 16th Amendment] carefully, you would find that a sufficient number of states never ratified that amendment." - U.S. District Court Judge James C. Fox 2003.
Taxed to death

Marietta, GA

#9 Feb 18, 2009
Butch you are very misinformed about what our taxes pay for. I'm sorry to tell you that. When you get a chance, if you care, check out this website that I found. It shows, along with many other websites, that I am not stupid or something. These are facts.

http://www.libertyforlife.com/constitution/us...
Black Dragon

Pikeville, KY

#10 Feb 18, 2009
Quite honestly I'd prefer not to get taxed as much as we do get taxed. A little tax is necessary and fine, but it's absurd how much they do take and keeps people from ever really making a profit from their work and makes sure all anyone can do is survive and break even.

Personally I think tax-payers should get breaks. If I'm paying for the money to fix up roads, I want to speed without getting a damn ticket for it. I'm paying for law enforcement? Then I should be able to commit a crime every now and then and skate by unpunished. My money is going to welfare? Fine, I should be able to boss those people around and treat them as slaves if I'm paying for them to live. Either give us some perks for our money or cut back on the taxes a little bit.

I honestly don't like paying into programs like medicaid either when I'm skating by without health insurance and can't go to a hospital without having to pay for it for the next decade. It's ridiculous. If the government wants such large chunks of our paychecks then they should start working for us, the tax-paying citizens again and helping out with important things such as health care, insurance, etc.
KRAKEE

Huntington, WV

#11 Feb 18, 2009
Taxed to death wrote:
<quoted text>
Krakee, look at what you posted. Look at the first line. It says a progressive tax on taxable income. What is taxable income? If you look at my first post I explain what taxable income is. What you make for going to your job and "exchanging" your trade for a service that they need done is a trade-off. There is no profit being made by anybody. They need something done, you have the skill to do it....This is an exchange. Believe me I am not trying to make this stuff up, this is the truth! If you purchase something an item for one price, then sell it for another price that is higher then the difference in those prices is a profit. That profit is taxable income. You didn't find anything that I didn't already know about. There are many, many court cases where people have been taken to the Supreme Court by the IRS for not paying taxes on their income and the people have beaten the IRS because IRS was not able to prove that that person's income was taxable income, because it wasn't. Your next question is, "then why don't we see this on the news?" You don't see it on the news because a case like this sets a precedent and our government does not want the American public knowing that the IRS is losing court cases like this. What would happen if CNN started airing stories where this happened? How many people would realize that they don't have to pay income taxes and lawfully stop paying them. Please, don't just be a drone that believes everything that is spoon fed to you.
OK. You got me. Don't pay income tax. See where that gets you. Just tell Old Man Roberts and his eight buddies that you know more than the US gov't about tax law.
Taxed to death

Marietta, GA

#12 Feb 18, 2009
KRAKEE wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. You got me. Don't pay income tax. See where that gets you. Just tell Old Man Roberts and his eight buddies that you know more than the US gov't about tax law.
So instead of being able to come back with an intelligent comment you're just gonna give in like that. Look, I'm not just going to stop paying my taxes just because of the little bit of education that I have obtained since finding out about this. I will find out everything I can about it and slowly start making smart changes. One of the ways to change is this: When you let the government take taxes out of your paycheck, you are essentially giving them an interest free loan for a year. So when tax return time comes and we file for our refunds, the government takes out our money from their account, that has been drawing interest for a year, and gives us our part minus the interest. We can fill out a form to have 0 taxes taken out of our paycheck and we can set up an account, do the math of what we owe them for that month and put that amount in the account. Do that for a year and when tax refund time comes around.....wait til April 14th so that you will get that interest building until the last minute. Write a check to the IRS for what we owe them and we keep the interest that was built over a years time. Thats one way to start.
Henry Treech

United States

#13 Feb 18, 2009
butch8879 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you freakin stupid or something? Where do you think the money comes from to build schools, bridges, roads, hospitals, military, etc. Do you have any idea what this place would look like if our government did not collect taxes?
Meanwhile, back in reality, Man Hospital closed because they could not get the state to cough up one million dollars the same week they blew over 20 million on a ball park for a private owner.
New Route 10 still isn't done. Doesn't do any good to have a military when Liberals don't have the balls to fight a war. For over a decade now statistics have shown that home schooled children outscore public school kids on college entry exams.
Looks like you are wrong about everything dude.

The reality is taxes is just a sleazy way politicians buy votes from welfare addicts to get reelected.
Since the REALLY rich like Teddy Boy Kennedy don't pay them, they don't care.
The entire tax burden is supported on the backs of working class people and the working poor, who are hurt more than anyone by the outrageoius taxes we face...
And nobody in washington has the BALLS to stand up and fight for the working man or woman and demand a reasonable flat tax that the rich can't get out of paying.
The only fair tax is a flat tax.
Taxed to death

Marietta, GA

#14 Feb 18, 2009
Henry Treech wrote:
<quoted text>
Meanwhile, back in reality, Man Hospital closed because they could not get the state to cough up one million dollars the same week they blew over 20 million on a ball park for a private owner.
New Route 10 still isn't done. Doesn't do any good to have a military when Liberals don't have the balls to fight a war. For over a decade now statistics have shown that home schooled children outscore public school kids on college entry exams.
Looks like you are wrong about everything dude.
The reality is taxes is just a sleazy way politicians buy votes from welfare addicts to get reelected.
Since the REALLY rich like Teddy Boy Kennedy don't pay them, they don't care.
The entire tax burden is supported on the backs of working class people and the working poor, who are hurt more than anyone by the outrageoius taxes we face...
And nobody in washington has the BALLS to stand up and fight for the working man or woman and demand a reasonable flat tax that the rich can't get out of paying.
The only fair tax is a flat tax.
I applaud you and agree with what you are saying. It's good to see that somebody else sees exactly what is going on. Why do people not even take a second to even think about things like this when a person brings it to their attention? They automatically just think that you're a crazed person. We do have one person that is fighting to get this entire tax issue taken care of though, Ron Paul. He has been trying to get a bill passed that would get the Federal Reserve and IRS shut down.

“Carpe Omnia”

Since: Feb 09

Broke Pelvis Mountain

#15 Feb 18, 2009
Taxed to death wrote:
<quoted text>
So instead of being able to come back with an intelligent comment you're just gonna give in like that. Look, I'm not just going to stop paying my taxes just because of the little bit of education that I have obtained since finding out about this. I will find out everything I can about it and slowly start making smart changes. One of the ways to change is this: When you let the government take taxes out of your paycheck, you are essentially giving them an interest free loan for a year. So when tax return time comes and we file for our refunds, the government takes out our money from their account, that has been drawing interest for a year, and gives us our part minus the interest. We can fill out a form to have 0 taxes taken out of our paycheck and we can set up an account, do the math of what we owe them for that month and put that amount in the account. Do that for a year and when tax refund time comes around.....wait til April 14th so that you will get that interest building until the last minute. Write a check to the IRS for what we owe them and we keep the interest that was built over a years time. Thats one way to start.
Actually, if you do that you'll get hit by a fine at tax time. The IRS expects you to make estimated quarterly tax payments if you don't pay regular payroll taxes. If you don't have around 90% paid by the time you file your taxes they'll fine you, although you can get away with it for the first year usually.
Taxed to death

Jacksonville, FL

#16 Feb 19, 2009
LeeIa wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, if you do that you'll get hit by a fine at tax time. The IRS expects you to make estimated quarterly tax payments if you don't pay regular payroll taxes. If you don't have around 90% paid by the time you file your taxes they'll fine you, although you can get away with it for the first year usually.
Look in your reply. "payroll taxes" I'm not paying a payroll..... If I had a business with people working for me then I would have a payroll. But I do not have a payroll. So therefore I am not required to pay payroll taxes.
Taxed to death

Jacksonville, FL

#17 Feb 19, 2009
KRAKEE wrote:
"The federal government of the United States imposes a progressive tax on the taxable income of individuals, partnerships, companies, corporations, trusts, decedents' estates, and certain bankruptcy estates. Some state and municipal governments also impose income taxes. The first Federal income tax was imposed (under Article I, section 8, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution) during the Civil War, then again in the 1890s, and again after the Sixteenth Amendment was ratified in 1913. Current income taxes are imposed under these constitutional provisions and various sections of Subtitle A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, including 26 U.S.C.§ 1 (imposing income tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates and trusts) and 26 U.S.C.§ 11 (imposing income tax on the taxable income of corporations)."
Wikipedia.
I took the time to research, too. It took all of 1 minute. I say you don't want to pay taxes, then fine. Don't send your kids to public schools. If you are the victim of a crime, don't call the police. If your house is on fire, don't call the fire department. If you're seriously injured, don't call an ambulance.
Don't drive on the interstate highway system. Since everything you buy was brought to you by a truck using these highways, I guess you can't buy anything either. Taxes help, you retard. We need taxes.
Just going to point out 1 of your statements where you are misinformed. Schools are paid for by property taxes. Since you called me a retard I might as well point out 1 more. Everything that I buy is not brought to me by a truck using interstate highways. A lot of it is brought to me by train using rail. Most of the fruits and vegetables that I buy are grown locally. Don't be mad at the people who are only trying to educate you. Be mad at the ones who have been misleading you, instead of trying so, so hard to rally behind them like you are.
KRAKEE

Huntington, WV

#18 Feb 19, 2009
Taxed to death wrote:
<quoted text>
Just going to point out 1 of your statements where you are misinformed. Schools are paid for by property taxes. Since you called me a retard I might as well point out 1 more. Everything that I buy is not brought to me by a truck using interstate highways. A lot of it is brought to me by train using rail. Most of the fruits and vegetables that I buy are grown locally. Don't be mad at the people who are only trying to educate you. Be mad at the ones who have been misleading you, instead of trying so, so hard to rally behind them like you are.
Ever hear of federal subsidies for school districts? Schools get money through property taxes, true, but they could not survive without federal funding.

As for the choo choo trains, are you that stubborn as to not be able to admit that someone else made a valid point? There's nothing worse than a know-it-all who reads something on a conspiracy theorist's blog and pretends that they are more informed than the rest of the world.

For the sake of arguement, I agree whole-heartedly with you; everything you say, oh enlightened one. My simple brain cannot hold any more of the vast knowledge you have bestowed upon me.
Taxed to death

Jacksonville, FL

#19 Feb 19, 2009
KRAKEE wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever hear of federal subsidies for school districts? Schools get money through property taxes, true, but they could not survive without federal funding.
As for the choo choo trains, are you that stubborn as to not be able to admit that someone else made a valid point? There's nothing worse than a know-it-all who reads something on a conspiracy theorist's blog and pretends that they are more informed than the rest of the world.
For the sake of arguement, I agree whole-heartedly with you; everything you say, oh enlightened one. My simple brain cannot hold any more of the vast knowledge you have bestowed upon me.
I will say this Krakee, up until this comment you haven't said anything that I have agreed with. But within this comment you do say a few things that I am in complete agreement with you on. I do not like when someone reads some blog and all of a sudden knows it all. That is one of the most aggravating things ever. The difference is this, I didn't find out any of this from a blog. I did hear about it on a documentary and decided that I was interested enough to look into on my own to see if it's worth even worrying about.

I also agree with you on the point about the trains that I put out there. I do understand that I buy a lot of stuff that is transported by highway on trucks. It's just that, we're having a healthy conversation here, and when you call me (or anyone) retarded, and other names during a conversation like this....it just makes a person want to not agree with you and say things that are far fetched than they should be. You have to agree though, although maybe not as fun or funny, this conversation is about something that matters a whole lot more than the majority of the topics on here......
Taxed to death

Jacksonville, FL

#20 Feb 19, 2009
Oh yeah Krakee, I agree with you on one other point that you made.....your brain can't hold anymore of this vast knowledge that I have bestowed upon you....lol! that is a joke of course.....

I enjoy this debate/conversation with you....at least you bring intelligent points to the table.

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