Appellate court hears arguments in Lo...

Appellate court hears arguments in Lockport fire pension lawsuit

There are 26 comments on the The Southtown Star story from Oct 22, 2012, titled Appellate court hears arguments in Lockport fire pension lawsuit. In it, The Southtown Star reports that:

A group of Lockport firefighters has appealed the dismissal of their lawsuit claiming the retired chief of the township fire department is double-dipping - drawing a six-figure salary as the department's "administrator" along with a pension.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Southtown Star.

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Chumbalone

Oak Park, IL

#1 Oct 23, 2012
This guy skates due to a technicality...and the taxpayers are on the hook to pay this guy more !! It is "double-dipping" any way you slice it. There are more of these creeps feeding at the pension trough all over the state of Illinois
Double Dippers

Lockport, IL

#2 Oct 23, 2012
This is the same guy that is a Piazza relative. They are kissin cousins. The other one on 4th Street got the bid to do that mansion fire station out in Prairie Bluff, and daddy Chronholm is on the fire board. Now don't you wonder how all these decisions just happened to be? When Piazza ran unsuccessfully his signs were all over with Sally Chronholm. Barbara Chronholm, deceased, was married to Jack McCarthy. Jack McCarthy is a twin brother to Noreen Piazza. Noreen Piazza is the mother of Greg, Pete, etc. Saw Greg the other day flying down 9th St. on his big motorcycle. Story in here about his son that had a drinking problem at a park. Yep, kissin cousins coming out just fine with double dipps everywhere!
liars are always liars

Lockport, IL

#4 Oct 23, 2012
[QUOTE who="????"]Everyone complains of him double dipping but if they were in the same situation they would be trying to collect 2 pension also. So shut the hell up!!!![/QUOTE] It is double dipping anyway you figure it. I am sure that this appeal is going somewhere. It is about time esp. with the amount of money he is collecting, and his relatives stand behind him. It sure is helpful to have his daddy on the fire board and mouth of the year GP fighting for him. Liars are always liars so shut up yourself as most people do not collect two pensions, and in this day and age they are lucky to have one pension and certainly not this amount. Now don't you wonder who this is????
Someone

Lemont, IL

#5 Oct 23, 2012
Chumbalone wrote:
This guy skates due to a technicality...and the taxpayers are on the hook to pay this guy more !! It is "double-dipping" any way you slice it. There are more of these creeps feeding at the pension trough all over the state of Illinois
The fire boad which gave him the new job and title need to do the right thing and remove him. Even with this out in the open they still honor the good ole boy system. Maybe the board needs replacing with people who have morals
Chumbalone

Oak Park, IL

#6 Oct 23, 2012
[QUOTE who="????"]Everyone complains of him double dipping but if they were in the same situation they would be trying to collect 2 pension also. So shut the hell up!!!![/QUOTE] If you don't mind...that's OK....just pay the man yourself...write him a check...pay him out of your old communion money....just don't ask me to pony up a nickel for this clown. Now I'll shut up !
Fair is Fair

Lockport, IL

#7 Oct 23, 2012
He needs to step down. It is most disturbing that a fire district with his dad on the board allows this to happen. The piazzes, his relatives, are probably backing him one hundred percent. It is unfair to the firemen to do that. It is like a Superintendent will retire from a district, AND THEN TURN AROUND AND TAKE A PRINCIPALS JOB THERE. THAT PROBABLY IS NOT A GOOD COMPARISON BUT IT WOULD BE DRAINING THE DISTRICT FOR THE SAME PERSON. HE IS DRAINING THE FIRE DISTRICT AND KNOWS ALL TOO WELL HE IS DOING IT. WHAT IS SO DISGUSTING IS THE FACT THAT SOMEONE LIKE HIM DOES NOT EVEN CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK. I DO NOT WANT THAT KIND OF A PERSON IN CHARGE. IT IS POOR COMMUNICATION AND CERTAINLY POOR MORALE FOR THE FIREMEN. I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR ANY FIRE DEPT. BUT THIS IS A SITUATION THAT IS MOST UNFAIR TO OUR COMMUNITY. FIRST OF ALL, THE GUY ON THE FIRE BOARD SHOULD NOT VOTE. AND I THINK AT LEAST ONE OF THEM IS GREAT FRIENDS WITH THEM. HELLO...HELLO...HELLO...IT IS WHY WE DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE WHEN THIS OCCURS
!
Lockport Opinion

Lockport, IL

#8 Oct 23, 2012
It's amazing that he is paid such a high salary and friends tell me they see him more at the golf course than at the fire station.

It is just wrong that the people on the fire board are a relative of one of the highest paid employees and also past fire department employees. Of course they want the people after them to have something better than they did. It's just not right.

Also, please tell me one township that has as opulent of a fire house than we do on Renwick? It's way too much and not one car in the parking lot is not a late model car or truck. There is too much money being spent there and the pension and payroll systems definitely need to be looked at if this type of abuse is allowed. This is definitely double dipping.
Someone

Lemont, IL

#9 Oct 23, 2012
Fair is Fair wrote:
He needs to step down. It is most disturbing that a fire district with his dad on the board allows this to happen. The piazzes, his relatives, are probably backing him one hundred percent. It is unfair to the firemen to do that. It is like a Superintendent will retire from a district, AND THEN TURN AROUND AND TAKE A PRINCIPALS JOB THERE. THAT PROBABLY IS NOT A GOOD COMPARISON BUT IT WOULD BE DRAINING THE DISTRICT FOR THE SAME PERSON. HE IS DRAINING THE FIRE DISTRICT AND KNOWS ALL TOO WELL HE IS DOING IT. WHAT IS SO DISGUSTING IS THE FACT THAT SOMEONE LIKE HIM DOES NOT EVEN CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK. I DO NOT WANT THAT KIND OF A PERSON IN CHARGE. IT IS POOR COMMUNICATION AND CERTAINLY POOR MORALE FOR THE FIREMEN. I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR ANY FIRE DEPT. BUT THIS IS A SITUATION THAT IS MOST UNFAIR TO OUR COMMUNITY. FIRST OF ALL, THE GUY ON THE FIRE BOARD SHOULD NOT VOTE. AND I THINK AT LEAST ONE OF THEM IS GREAT FRIENDS WITH THEM. HELLO...HELLO...HELLO...IT IS WHY WE DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE WHEN THIS OCCURS
!
He'll only step down whe he's forced to just like Justin.
liars are always liars

Lockport, IL

#10 Oct 23, 2012
Someone wrote:
<quoted text>
He'll only step down whe he's forced to just like Justin.
The story left out the fact that his daddy (I want my daddy) was on the fire board. He needed the votes of his friend and his daddy. What a stacked deck! The rules are put in place to stop this type of double dipping. No shame!
Chumbalone

Sycamore, IL

#11 Oct 24, 2012
liars are always liars wrote:
<quoted text> The story left out the fact that his daddy (I want my daddy) was on the fire board. He needed the votes of his friend and his daddy. What a stacked deck! The rules are put in place to stop this type of double dipping. No shame!
Many of these Board "positions" appear on the ballot at election time. These people count on no one paying attention to who they are and what they do. Firefighters are important...not these "boards" and "administrators" who do nothing and get paid huge amounts of money...then grab more money when they retire...again !! If and when you see one of these familiar names on a ballot....vote for the "other" person and get rid of them....period.
peety

Lockport, IL

#12 Oct 24, 2012
no one complains what these guys make a year working 24 on and 48 off! what a life. this isn't chicago. lots of times the engines don't even leave the station unless they chase the ambulance to a call
Chumbalone

Sacramento, CA

#13 Oct 25, 2012
peety wrote:
no one complains what these guys make a year working 24 on and 48 off! what a life. this isn't chicago. lots of times the engines don't even leave the station unless they chase the ambulance to a call
This topic is about one guy who is "bilking and playing" the system and the "board" that allowed it to happen. This topic is NOT about the every day firefighter and their work rules.
Mickster

Westlake Village, CA

#14 Oct 25, 2012
All pensions should be turned into 401K plans so the taxpayers are not on the hook for overpaying the retirement plans of government employees. This includes fire, police, teachers...
If you receive a pension, and are honest with yourself, you know it is not fair for the taxpayers to shoulder this impossible burden!
Chumbalone

Oak Park, IL

#15 Oct 25, 2012
Mickster wrote:
All pensions should be turned into 401K plans so the taxpayers are not on the hook for overpaying the retirement plans of government employees. This includes fire, police, teachers...
If you receive a pension, and are honest with yourself, you know it is not fair for the taxpayers to shoulder this impossible burden!
No argument here. It happenned to me...but I was employed in the private sector where employers made decisions for their employees. Taxpayers need to pay very close attention attention to who they elect. Those are the folks who could change the "system" from where it is today to where it should be !
Lockport Taxpayer

Lemont, IL

#16 Oct 26, 2012
The taxpayer pays for the services that are provided by Police, Fire, Teachers, Public Works, and all of the other municipal employees. So, yes, we are "on the hook" for those costs. We would still be on the hook for any 401K matching that would be required. This isn't Wisconsin, our Police, Fire, and Teachers pay 10% of their paycheck into the pension fund and haven't missed a payment. The state and some municipalities have screwed the taxpayers and the teachers because they have chosen to "put off" pension payments for years, resulting in the current unfunded liability in some of the state pension programs, mainly the teachers pension.

The Teachers were promised that pension, and are now being told that their benefits are being reduced, they can't retire until they are 67 years old, and that they want to make further cuts or even do away with the pension system entirely. All because some politicians have been robbing the pension system for years.

It is backward reasoning to think that the public sector should move to a 401K or defined contribution plan "because that is what the private sector has already done". Companies have whittled away at employee benefits for years in order to increase quarterly profits. When I was growing up, my friend's fathers worked for places like CAT and other manufacturing jobs whose starting wages are less now than they were in the 1970s and 80s. In the late 1990's I was hired by The Home Depot at a much higher wage than people who get hired there today. The reason that pensions were taken away from the private sector is because of greed, and the employees let it happen.

I think that we have a responsibility to take care of the retirement for the Police, Teachers, Firefighters and Public Works because they have taught our children, answered our 911 calls, and plowed our streets with the understanding that they would be able to retire after they put their time in. If you want to blame anyone, blame any of the Old Guard Illinois Sate Politicians who voted to "reallocate" state pension payments.

If you think that this burden should be placed on the state worker, then you are passing the buck just like the state legislature, and making Teachers the fall guy.
Lockport Taxpayer

Lemont, IL

#17 Oct 26, 2012
And yes, the actions of Rob Cronholm and his friends and family on the board are appalling. And those same things go on with the teachers pension. That means that there should be reform to get rid of abuse and double dipping, not get rid of the pension system entirely.
Jeff

Clarendon Hills, IL

#18 Oct 26, 2012
The first public pensions to be reformed should be the politians, but that will never happen. Then they should look at others. I do have one question why do firefights work a 24 hour shift. I work for a company that has 24-7-365 coverage,we work 12 hour shifts and that is what most companies have found to be most cost effective. Why would you have the expense of providing living quarters for your employee's and pay them to sleep?
Voter

Chicago, IL

#19 Oct 26, 2012
The cost of having three shifts of employees, and paying their benefits would be much more than what it is now. If they did 8hr shifts it would be a 40 hr work week, the shift now comes out to 56hrs a week salary. They would have to make up 16hrs per week per employee. If only people didn't have emergencies at night.
Chumbalone

Oak Park, IL

#20 Oct 30, 2012
Lockport Taxpayer wrote:
The taxpayer pays for the services that are provided by Police, Fire, Teachers, Public Works, and all of the other municipal employees. So, yes, we are "on the hook" for those costs. We would still be on the hook for any 401K matching that would be required. This isn't Wisconsin, our Police, Fire, and Teachers pay 10% of their paycheck into the pension fund and haven't missed a payment. The state and some municipalities have screwed the taxpayers and the teachers because they have chosen to "put off" pension payments for years, resulting in the current unfunded liability in some of the state pension programs, mainly the teachers pension.
The Teachers were promised that pension, and are now being told that their benefits are being reduced, they can't retire until they are 67 years old, and that they want to make further cuts or even do away with the pension system entirely. All because some politicians have been robbing the pension system for years.
It is backward reasoning to think that the public sector should move to a 401K or defined contribution plan "because that is what the private sector has already done". Companies have whittled away at employee benefits for years in order to increase quarterly profits. When I was growing up, my friend's fathers worked for places like CAT and other manufacturing jobs whose starting wages are less now than they were in the 1970s and 80s. In the late 1990's I was hired by The Home Depot at a much higher wage than people who get hired there today. The reason that pensions were taken away from the private sector is because of greed, and the employees let it happen.
I think that we have a responsibility to take care of the retirement for the Police, Teachers, Firefighters and Public Works because they have taught our children, answered our 911 calls, and plowed our streets with the understanding that they would be able to retire after they put their time in. If you want to blame anyone, blame any of the Old Guard Illinois Sate Politicians who voted to "reallocate" state pension payments.
If you think that this burden should be placed on the state worker, then you are passing the buck just like the state legislature, and making Teachers the fall guy.
Bottom line is the State of Illinois HAS NO MONEY....blame whomever you want. Got to start somewhere so let's start with the double dippers likle this guy.....and there are many more. As far as municipal workers and teachers...both have two different retirement plans...one is IMRF and the other TRS...one is more solvent than the other....that being IMRF. Both provide lucrative plans. Look these folks are employees...plain and simple. All are valuable to society....but We the taxpayers are not endless pools of money. You can have all the constitutional guarantees you want...but if there is NO MORE MONEY or these plans become insolvent...nobody gets anything...PERIOD. Blame whomever you want to.....the taxpaying public cannot be taxed into oblivion to fund these plans WITHOUT changes ! Being able to retire at 50 after 20 years of service is nice...but these people can collect pensions for 30 YEARS or more !!! Today...teachers can go out at 55...not 67 as you stated at 75% of their avg. pay for their last four years...and collect for possibly 30 years....with 3% COLA raises compounded annually...and health care....NOT BAD AT ALL!! Sorry....this has got to change....don't care what they do. These folks will defintely collect more than they put in. The school districts and municipalities that grant the lucrative contracts should not be allowed to wash their hands of these deals knowing that the "State" will bail them out on pension payments ! Same goes for TRS managers who made bad investments with their clients money expecting 10% return...when most investments lost money....WRONG AGAIN ! Bottom line...this whole mess MUST be cleaned up. Let's start with the scammers like this Fire Chief !!!
Lockport Taxpayer

Lemont, IL

#21 Oct 30, 2012
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2010/...
That link took me two seconds to google. I know what I am talking about. However, you are right that state is broke. That does not mean that it should not pay the pension system and the teachers what it already owes them. And how effective is a sixty seven year old elementary school teacher?

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