Why do we pay the City of Livermore E...

Why do we pay the City of Livermore Employees so much money?

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mike

San Francisco, CA

#1 Dec 12, 2009
Remember that this is only the top 30 I did not put the Firefighters pay on this list because they always have a way to hide how much they make. I have that list and I will put it on here tonight. If they were on this list they would take up about 20 of the top 30.

Barton Linda M City Manager $272,977
Piper James W Assistant City Manager $219,604
Pomidor John J City Attorney $197,369
Sweeney Stephen G Police Chief $195,051
Gallinger Susan R Director Of Library $193,474
Mcintyre Daniel B Public Works Director$190,720
Potter Monica Director Of Finance $189,356
Roberts Ernest M Community Development $181,934
Hurd John F Police Sergeant $176,900
Trudeau Scott J Police Captain $174,992
Ratcliffe Joshua J Police Sergeant $173,211
Weiss Mark D Police Captain $168,351
Propp Judith J Sr Asst City Attorney $167,868
White M Robert Economic Development $166,748
Sheets Cheri R City Engineer $159,187
Young E Kevin Assistant City Attorney $158,829
Alcala Jason R Assistant City Attorney $155,297
Garavatti Ava Police Lieutenant $153,395
Gallagher Steven V Police Lieutenant $150,471
Conley James M Police Sergeant Police $150,332
Garrison Jr Charles L Police Officer $150,227
Barrozo Lourdes C Senior Civil Engineer $149,019
Sarsfield Matthew J Police Lieutenant $149,000
Calvert Alice L City Clerk $148,849
Pournia Mohammad Transportation Manager $147,694
mike

San Francisco, CA

#2 Dec 12, 2009
Let me add to this and that is Police and Firefighters can retire at the age of 50. The pension that we as tax payers have to pay them is [email protected]
That is 3% of there salary for every year they worked. And they get that for life with a 3% raise every year.
No_Value

San Ramon, CA

#3 Dec 12, 2009
I love that the City Clerk almost makes as much as the City Attorney.
A City Clerk's Educational Requirement:
Equivalent to graduation from a four-year college or university with major coursework in business or public administration or a field related to the work and three years of supervisory, office administrative, related experience, preferably in a public agency or an equivalent combination of education and experience sufficient to successfully perform the essential duties of the job as listed above.
A City Attorney's Educational Requirements:
Graduation from an accredited college of law with an LLB or Juris Doctorate degree.
Five years of practical experience as a licensed attorney, municipal experience and trial litigation experience desired. Experience with municipal law and familiarity with local government is preferred.
Adele

Oakland, CA

#4 Dec 12, 2009
I think the first five on the list should take a voluntary cut in pay to keep our libraries hours the same instead of the cuts made that begin in Jan.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#5 Dec 13, 2009
What's really scary is how many of these figures include overtime pay, or special pay, or some other damned kind of pay which if taken in the "final year" can then be used to determine "final compensation".

Few comments:

I'm not sure why we have need 4 damn attorneys. Maybe there are more that don't appear on the list. Do we get in that much trouble?

Also, the new library is very nice, but nearly 200K a year to be Library Director? I know CEOs of companies that make millions of dollars a year in profits that are barely making that. WTF is so difficult about running our modest library system? Its got three branches, one of which is little more than a doublewide, and another which is little more than a prefab. How hard can it be? I'm sure somewhere in this state, is a librarian with a Masters in Library Science who would do the job for say, half that. Heck, with the recession there are probably 2000 librarians who would do it for that.

Community Development. What is this crap anyway? Sounds like a lot of money for a "behind the scenes" role.

Economic development: sounds like a big waste of money, and a real sinecure of a job since who is developing anything in the midst of a recession/depression? Hopefully this isn't the person behind attracting the bottom feeding businesses like outlet stores, car dealers, and collection agencies, things we don't need and can easily do without.

Are these people, at least the civil servant ones, appointees? I'd love to see some major changes in the "culture" that led to these abusive salaries. They're paying like this is Silicon Valley, and like they're Google. Clearly those "in charge" of such issues have forgotten who we are, where we are, and our financial position.
Billy

Livermore, CA

#6 Dec 13, 2009
Anon wrote:
What's really scary is how many of these figures include overtime pay, or special pay, or some other damned kind of pay which if taken in the "final year" can then be used to determine "final compensation".
Few comments:
I'm not sure why we have need 4 damn attorneys. Maybe there are more that don't appear on the list. Do we get in that much trouble?
Also, the new library is very nice, but nearly 200K a year to be Library Director? I know CEOs of companies that make millions of dollars a year in profits that are barely making that. WTF is so difficult about running our modest library system? Its got three branches, one of which is little more than a doublewide, and another which is little more than a prefab. How hard can it be? I'm sure somewhere in this state, is a librarian with a Masters in Library Science who would do the job for say, half that. Heck, with the recession there are probably 2000 librarians who would do it for that.
Community Development. What is this crap anyway? Sounds like a lot of money for a "behind the scenes" role.
Economic development: sounds like a big waste of money, and a real sinecure of a job since who is developing anything in the midst of a recession/depression? Hopefully this isn't the person behind attracting the bottom feeding businesses like outlet stores, car dealers, and collection agencies, things we don't need and can easily do without.
Are these people, at least the civil servant ones, appointees? I'd love to see some major changes in the "culture" that led to these abusive salaries. They're paying like this is Silicon Valley, and like they're Google. Clearly those "in charge" of such issues have forgotten who we are, where we are, and our financial position.
Get your facts straight, overtime doesn't count for final compensation. It's lies like this that get blown out of proportion.
Why don't you put your pay and job up on this site and we can discuss with you are worth anything.
81 Hater

Modesto, CA

#7 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
<quoted text>
Get your facts straight, overtime doesn't count for final compensation. It's lies like this that get blown out of proportion.
Why don't you put your pay and job up on this site and we can discuss with you are worth anything.
I don't think thats gonna happen Bill. You see, I have two theories, one is comedic, in that ANON is an unemployed governmenal anarchist who is involved in the local militia, spends his "off" time protesting and posting on Topix. He is unmarried, no kids, and has few (if any) friends.

The other option, which is probably more to the point, is that ANON had a high paying job which he lost due to the recession. He has had nothing to do lately other than find a target for his hatred.

Either way, he's not understanding that simple concept of repetition does not create agreement. ANON seems to think if he continuously posts the same thing over and over that someone will agree. Other than Mike, he hasn't gained much headway. I am hoping he realizes that his continuous posts only further drive those away who might even consider siding with him.
mike

San Francisco, CA

#8 Dec 13, 2009
81 Hater wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think thats gonna happen Bill. You see, I have two theories, one is comedic, in that ANON is an unemployed governmenal anarchist who is involved in the local militia, spends his "off" time protesting and posting on Topix. He is unmarried, no kids, and has few (if any) friends.
The other option, which is probably more to the point, is that ANON had a high paying job which he lost due to the recession. He has had nothing to do lately other than find a target for his hatred.
Either way, he's not understanding that simple concept of repetition does not create agreement. ANON seems to think if he continuously posts the same thing over and over that someone will agree. Other than Mike, he hasn't gained much headway. I am hoping he realizes that his continuous posts only further drive those away who might even consider siding with him.
HA HA 81 Hater you are one funny guy. See I think Anon sees it the same way I do, and that is keep this stuff in the headlines and even if only one new person reads it then our job is working. I don't think Anon is trying to get you to see reality. I already think you see the same things that we do, But you don't really care because for what ever reason you have enough money around until you die. And you enjoy Anons comments because it gives you something to do.
mike

San Francisco, CA

#9 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
<quoted text>
Get your facts straight, overtime doesn't count for final compensation. It's lies like this that get blown out of proportion.
Why don't you put your pay and job up on this site and we can discuss with you are worth anything.
I think Anon knows that. But some pensions allow you to convert sick time into vacation time and that can sometimes be allowed. Not all pensions are the same. I think we have something like 70 for state employees
Billy

Livermore, CA

#10 Dec 13, 2009
As a citizen of Livermore, I'm smart enough to realize that paying someone overtime is far less costly than filling more positions with benefits etc. Also, these are 2008 numbers, let's see how much the drop for 2009 because of pay cuts and reduction of overtime. And, according to the web site that breaks these pay numbers down, some of this pay comes from the cash out of accurred time. What do these people really make is the real question here.
Billy

Livermore, CA

#11 Dec 13, 2009
One more thing, if you think that Livermore employees are paid more, compare P-Town, Fremont, or anyone else you care to look at.
mike

San Francisco, CA

#12 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
One more thing, if you think that Livermore employees are paid more, compare P-Town, Fremont, or anyone else you care to look at.
That is not the point. And you are right. Livermore is low when it comes to other city's. There is know reason that they get paid that much. Do you make anything close to that? I would bet nobody that reads any of this stuff makes anything close to this kind of money.
Billy

Livermore, CA

#13 Dec 13, 2009
mike wrote:
<quoted text>That is not the point. And you are right. Livermore is low when it comes to other city's. There is know reason that they get paid that much. Do you make anything close to that? I would bet nobody that reads any of this stuff makes anything close to this kind of money.
I'm not sure how you can say that about public sector pay. Do you want some low level knuckle head running the city or some Paul Blart Mall Cop patroling the streets. It's like any business, you hire talented, well educated people and pay them accordingly. To say they are overpaid suggest that you are discounting education and training.
81 Hater

Modesto, CA

#14 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure how you can say that about public sector pay. Do you want some low level knuckle head running the city or some Paul Blart Mall Cop patroling the streets. It's like any business, you hire talented, well educated people and pay them accordingly. To say they are overpaid suggest that you are discounting education and training.
Your missing the point here Billy. As much as I surmise ANON's reason for posting this drivel, I know that similar terms are actually true for Mike...as he stated as much. Mike is mad. Mike lost significant income as a contractor. He didn't complain before because he made enough to not be on a witch hunt. Now, he is, and he thinks everyone should be in his shoes. Bottom line, Mike is jealous. Had he brought up these concerns when times were good, and before he mentioned losing money... he might have some backing. Instead, I think most see his play for what it is. These aren't hot dog salesmen were talking about. They are educated, highly trained professionals...and I don't think Mike has the authority, education, background, and most importantly, the knowledge, to determine what someone should be paid. He is purely basing his complaint on the fact that he himself is not doing that well...so why should anyone?
Billy

Livermore, CA

#15 Dec 13, 2009
81 Hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Your missing the point here Billy. As much as I surmise ANON's reason for posting this drivel, I know that similar terms are actually true for Mike...as he stated as much. Mike is mad. Mike lost significant income as a contractor. He didn't complain before because he made enough to not be on a witch hunt. Now, he is, and he thinks everyone should be in his shoes. Bottom line, Mike is jealous. Had he brought up these concerns when times were good, and before he mentioned losing money... he might have some backing. Instead, I think most see his play for what it is. These aren't hot dog salesmen were talking about. They are educated, highly trained professionals...and I don't think Mike has the authority, education, background, and most importantly, the knowledge, to determine what someone should be paid. He is purely basing his complaint on the fact that he himself is not doing that well...so why should anyone?
Well said, I can't fathom someone with any education posting something this moronic!
Billy

Livermore, CA

#16 Dec 13, 2009
Anon wrote:
What's really scary is how many of these figures include overtime pay, or special pay, or some other damned kind of pay which if taken in the "final year" can then be used to determine "final compensation".
Few comments:
I'm not sure why we have need 4 damn attorneys. Maybe there are more that don't appear on the list. Do we get in that much trouble?
Also, the new library is very nice, but nearly 200K a year to be Library Director? I know CEOs of companies that make millions of dollars a year in profits that are barely making that. WTF is so difficult about running our modest library system? Its got three branches, one of which is little more than a doublewide, and another which is little more than a prefab. How hard can it be? I'm sure somewhere in this state, is a librarian with a Masters in Library Science who would do the job for say, half that. Heck, with the recession there are probably 2000 librarians who would do it for that.
Community Development. What is this crap anyway? Sounds like a lot of money for a "behind the scenes" role.
Economic development: sounds like a big waste of money, and a real sinecure of a job since who is developing anything in the midst of a recession/depression? Hopefully this isn't the person behind attracting the bottom feeding businesses like outlet stores, car dealers, and collection agencies, things we don't need and can easily do without.
Are these people, at least the civil servant ones, appointees? I'd love to see some major changes in the "culture" that led to these abusive salaries. They're paying like this is Silicon Valley, and like they're Google. Clearly those "in charge" of such issues have forgotten who we are, where we are, and our financial position.
Doing some research here and the "behind the scenes guy" (community development) heads up the Building Dept., Planning Department, Economic Development etc. More shots in the dark Anon!
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#17 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
As a citizen of Livermore, I'm smart enough to realize that paying someone overtime is far less costly than filling more positions with benefits etc. Also, these are 2008 numbers, let's see how much the drop for 2009 because of pay cuts and reduction of overtime. And, according to the web site that breaks these pay numbers down, some of this pay comes from the cash out of accurred time. What do these people really make is the real question here.
It isn't "far less costly" when someone has gotten enough OT to hire an entire new employee. If you have a 100K+ OT payment you surely could have hired another FTE position that would have covered those extra hours, plus some of the OT hours worked by yet another employee, thus saving a good deal of money.

BTW, vacation cashouts are one form of the "pension spiking" abuses detailed in this article: http://calpensions.com/2009/07/27/pension-spi...
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#18 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure how you can say that about public sector pay. Do you want some low level knuckle head running the city or some Paul Blart Mall Cop patroling the streets. It's like any business, you hire talented, well educated people and pay them accordingly. To say they are overpaid suggest that you are discounting education and training.
Sigh. We've been over this before. Education for a public safety employee is a GED and the relevant academy (police or fire). That's it. No college required.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#19 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
One more thing, if you think that Livermore employees are paid more, compare P-Town, Fremont, or anyone else you care to look at.
Nope. That is not the right analysis. Just because public employees literally everywhere in this state are raping the taxpayer doesn't justify the same abusive compensation schemes in our community.

You seem to be using the old kid classic "But all my friends are doing it!"

Do better.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#20 Dec 13, 2009
Billy wrote:
<quoted text>
Get your facts straight, overtime doesn't count for final compensation. It's lies like this that get blown out of proportion.
Why don't you put your pay and job up on this site and we can discuss with you are worth anything.
OT doesn't count for most employees, but there are some agencies and counties not covered by this rule, like the county of Contra Costa and some fire agencies. The rule prohibiting OT as counting in CA was enacted in 1993 when it was put in place as a result of widespread abuse.

see for details: http://www.capitolweekly.net/article.php...

In many other states, OT is used in final compensation and is a widespread problem. http://www.governing.com/column/seeking-fix-%...

But back to CA and the problems at hand: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/public-220...

Here's the deal guys: we need to terminate the entire concept of pensions for government employees. They make excellent salaries. The Federal Government employees average compensation is nearly 80% higher than the average private section salary.

The excuse for gold plated pension benefits has long been that government employees earn less than their counterparts in the private sector. However, that is no longer true. It also ignores the fact that by virtue of imposing a monopoly on certain functions, the government creates positions for which any private sector counterpart is prohibited from existence, thus making a comparison impractical if not outright impossible.

In the private sector, for the most part, there is no such thing as a pension. Only mostly self-funded 401k plans. By law, you can only contribute 16.5K annually to a 401K. So, by law, no private employee of median wage in this country can save anything approaching an entire years salary each year in their retirement plan, which is essentially the bare minimum you'd need to have a shot at investing and getting the types of returns found in government defined benefit plans. And many firms which used to partially match contributions have ceased to do so, in response to the recession. There is no guaranteed or defined benefit plan and there is no COLA or lifetime health insurance plan.

What needs to happen is that government work and private sector work need to be equalized. There are no pensions in the private sector: there should be none in the public sector. There is no COLA in the private sector: there should be none in the public sector. There is no lifetime guaranteed health care premium payment in the private sector, hence there should be none in the public sector.

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