Incredible. Are you sure?? If all this is true, our YMCA is toast.FWIW, Neighbor and I are not the same people.
Question for "Are you kidding me" poster from Herkimer. I hear what you're saying that "renting houses to the poor" & "selling food" are both "their tax-exempt mission."
Can you answer me this, of the 2,600+ YMCA's in the United States, how many run a food cooperative? I've googled, wiki'd and bing'd it do you know how many I found? 1 - Little Falls NY. If "selling food" was truly the YMCA's tax exempt mission do you think more than 1 YMCA would do it?
How many YMCA's own free standing residential homes and rent them out? Don't confuse this question with YMCA's that have dormitory style residences in their buildings...I mean free standing homes? Same result, I can't find any others that do this. In fact - see this from Wiki:
Until the late 1950s, YMCAs in the United States were built with hotel-like rooms called residences or dormitories; These rooms were built with the young men in mind coming from rural America and many foreign born young men arriving to the new cities. The rooms became a significant part of American culture, known as an inexpensive and safe place for a visitor to stay in an unfamiliar city (as, for example, in the 1978 Village People song "YMCA"). In 1940 there were about 100,000 rooms at YMCAs, more than any hotel chain. By 2006, YMCAs with residences had become relatively rare in the US, but many still remain.
If owning and renting homes was a core mission of the YMCA don't you think other YMCA's would do it?
Here is a wild guess for you...maybe other YMCA's DO NOT sell food and DO NOT own and rent out homes because maybe they believe that these are NOT tax exempt activities tied to their core mission?
I will fully expect you to rant & call me names but I'm just asking valid questions. Again for the record, I have no dog in this fight, don't live on Garden Street and don't own a grocery store that competes against the co-op and don't own any rental houses that compete against the Y's rental houses.
#61 Oct 9, 2012
#62 Oct 9, 2012
Hey "Just reporting what I see", there you go again with your "facts" and "research"! This is not what we use to base our opinions on in Little Falls!
#63 Oct 9, 2012
google it, bing it, wiki it on your own...I can't find any. You would think that of the 2600+ YMCA's in the US at least 1 other might be doing something similar? I did find Y's that own free food pantries but no places where food is for sale. I did find Y's that still have dorm rooms for rent on a DAILY or WEEKLY basis in their buildings but none that own houses and rent them out long-term.
So what does this mean? I don't really know but I do question if we taxpayers of Little Falls are paying more than we should be paying because we're subsidizing what MIGHT actually be the Y's fair portion of taxes?
I don't think the YMCA and their true mission is toast at all...the co-op and rental houses seem like they are outside the core mission activities to me but that is just my opinion. Let's face it, if the co-op or the rental homes have to start paying taxes they will do what any other business does when costs go up...they will either cut expenses, raise prices or go out of business. I don't think it is too hard to cut 6k of expense or raise an extra 6k in revenue if you ask me.
#64 Oct 9, 2012
LOL - sorry about that...still getting used to "how things are done around here!" I'll try to do better next time.
#65 Oct 9, 2012
This is fascinating.
Too bad its all on Topix and not in the hands of the YMCA and City lawyers.
#66 Oct 9, 2012
The City Assessor and her allies in this WITCH HUNT against the YMCA should be ASHAMED of themselves for the way they are scurrilously attacking a PILLAR of our community!
By US law, not-for-profit food cooperatives are a legitimate tax-exempt activity.
By US law, low-income housing is a legitimate tax-exempt activity.
I do NOT believe you when you claim that no other YMCA is involved in low income housing or non-profit foo cooperatives. But it does not matter! If our YMCA were the only YMCA in the nation to do those things, I would be PROUD of our Y for being innovative in responding to community needs.
If you seek penalize the Little Falls YMCA for being innovative in meeting the needs of our local community, then you CAN GO TO HELL! The Little Falls City Assessor is GRAVELY DAMAGING our city by seeking to harass its largest non-profit organization.
The Little Falls City Assessor needs to be FIRED immediately! She needs to be fired for the good of the City of Little Falls.
#67 Oct 9, 2012
Exactly! The low-income housing will regain its tax exemptions in court, of that you can be sure, because law and case precedent on that are cut and dried. I fear that the Co-Op might be closed, however, if the judge seeks a compromise. The Co-Op does not make money, and cannot afford to pay $6,000 a year in taxes. It WILL close if they have to pay property taxes! Or maybe they will move to Mohawk, along with those 10 jobs?
The City Assessor is trying to CLOSE the Co-Op. The City Assessor needs to be FIRED immediately for such short-sighted stupidity.
#68 Oct 9, 2012
Blah blah blah blah blah. Got anything new or just this tired old crap?
#69 Oct 9, 2012
Really? There's precedent for organizations getting tax exemptions for things not claimed on their tax returns?
You learn something new every day!
#70 Oct 9, 2012
You feel better now? Do yourself a favor and just for 1 minute stop ranting and raving and consider that you might not be right.
#71 Oct 9, 2012
I'll say it again: if that is the argument the City takes before the judge, then Dave P had better start writing the papers to get the bond to pay for the punitive damages the city owes to the YMCA.
#72 Oct 9, 2012
So you're saying there is precedent for organizations getting tax exemptions for activities not claimed on their tax forms? Please stop with the parrot rhetoric and answer the question. You're the one who made the claim.
#73 Oct 9, 2012
Okay...I didn't quite get the "reply to your post" mechanics right but I think you get the meaning of my responses below:
You: I do NOT believe you when you claim that no other YMCA is involved in low income housing or non-profit foo cooperatives. But it does not matter!
Me: So go look it up yourself...don't believe me.
You: If our YMCA were the only YMCA in the nation to do those things, I would be PROUD of our Y for being innovative in responding to community needs.
Me: Me too...but should these innovative (or in other words, NON CORE) missions be considered tax exempt? I don't know but I don't think you do either.
You: If you seek penalize the Little Falls YMCA for being innovative in meeting the needs of our local community, then you CAN GO TO HELL!
Me: I kinda figured you'd just start ranting instead of trying to engage in constructive debate...we citizens pay taxes and we have a right to know if we're paying too much because JUST MAYBE the Y is not paying when they should.
You: The Little Falls City Assessor is GRAVELY DAMAGING our city by seeking to harass its largest non-profit organization.
Me: Your opinion...I see it the other way...that the assessor is protecting everybody in LF by making sure we all pay our fair share in taxes IF we are supposed to.
You: The Little Falls City Assessor needs to be FIRED immediately!
She needs to be fired for the good of the City of Little Falls.
Me:(New comment) Maybe the board of the Y should be fired for allowing themselves to be put in this controversial situation? If no other Y is doing these 2 activities ((1.) Selling food at co-ops vs. giving it away at food banks or (2.) Renting free-standing houses longterm vs. dormitory rooms by the day or week) then maybe (my OPINION)they played it a little too loose and on the fringe versus sticking to core mission activities?
#74 Oct 9, 2012
FYI I'm a practicing Christian (Catholic) and I don't believe that damning someone to Hell exactly holds true to the Young Men's Christian Association's principles?
"With a mission to put Christian principles into practice through programs that build a healthy spirit, mind and body for all, our impact is felt when an individual makes a healthy choice, when a mentor inspires a child and when a community comes together for the common good."
You know it is still the YMCA and not "The Y" for a reason.
#75 Oct 9, 2012
I still suspect you are willingtotalk, and you taunted me into wasting an hour of my life yesterday reading the damned instructions for that tax form 990. So no thanks.
If the YMCA board of directors approved those missions (Co-Op and low-income housing), then they are a part of the YMCA mission, whether Joy Presta and her friends like it or not. And those are legitimate tax-exempt activities, whether Joy Presta and her friends lie it or not.
And make no mistake: I still firmly believe that this attack on the YMCA has its roots in a thirst for revenge.
#76 Oct 9, 2012
He isn't, and I still laugh at the fact that you're upset at the notion that you actually had to inform yourself.
According to the Y's tax forms, low-income housing is not a part of their mission.
#77 Oct 9, 2012
You can suspect whatever you wish but you would be incorrect.
I see maybe I got this part wrong?:("Me:(New comment) Maybe the board of the Y should be fired for allowing themselves to be put in this controversial situation? If no other Y is doing these 2 activities ((1.) Selling food at co-ops vs. giving it away at food banks or (2.) Renting free-standing houses longterm vs. dormitory rooms by the day or week) then maybe (my OPINION)they played it a little too loose and on the fringe versus sticking to core mission activities?")
Perhaps I should have stated that the board of the Y should be fired for PUTTING themselves (I said allowing) in this controversial situation? Look, the board (I assume they are the "buck stops here" final decision makers) may have made a mistake / maybe didn't do their homework / went a little off the reservation and thought (rightly or wrongly) that the activities in question (selling food at a co-op versus giving it away at food banks and owning and renting free-standing houses on a long-term basis versus renting their own dormitory style rooms on a daily or weekly basis) were part of their core mission? Tell you the truth Herkimer fiery poster...maybe at the time they made the decision(s) it WAS perfectly acceptable / legal / commonplace / the norm whatever you want to call it to do these things...BUT...things change, laws change, community needs change, rules change ALL THE TIME. I can't deduct interest on my automobile loan off my taxes anymore or buy beer at 18 anymore...maybe this is just a change the YMCA needs to make or should have made already? Either way, I'm not on the board...no skin of my nose and I'm sure the board carries directors & officers liability insurance or directors & officers errors and omissions insurance for just such reasons.
#78 Oct 9, 2012
I guess no apology for the above? Oh well, I forgive you and will try my best not to wish the same on anybody
#79 Oct 9, 2012
Well, if you think that food cooperatives and low income housing should no longer be tax-exempt purposes, then please write to Richard Hanna and ask him to sponsor legislation to change the US Tax Code. Rewriting the US Tax Code is the job of Congress; it is NOT the job of the Little Falls City Assessor!
Currently, both food cooperatives and low income housing are legitimate tax-exempt activities. I am sorry that Joy and her YMCA-hating friends don't like that, but it's the LAW.
We need to fire the City Assessor for arbitrarily denying the YMCA the property tax exemptions to which that organization is entitled by US and NY State tax laws.
#80 Oct 9, 2012
This is directly from the IRS regarding 501(c)(3) organizations, which the YMCA is:
"In Sit. 4 of Rev. Rul. 70-585, the [Internal Revenue] Service stated that THE PROVISION OF HOUSING TO MODERATE INCOME FAMILIES IS NOT A CHARITABLE PURPOSE."
This applies directly to the Y. I refer you to the following:
"Everything in my house is new.[...] how are we poor?"
"I am not on social services nor have I been. I have paid my rent every month in cash for the past 5 years."
Does "everything in my house is new" sound like "low-income" to you?
Sounds like the city has a pretty good case.
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