Tax Exemption for 410 Canal Place
LOL

Herkimer, NY

#21 Oct 10, 2012
Regarding posts #2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, all posted within minutes of each other, squealing in protest over this new branch of the conversation on exemptions: is this getting too close to home for comfort? Ouch! LOL!
Waynes World

Little Falls, NY

#22 Oct 10, 2012
this makes me want to hurl!!!!!!!!you people are so rude to each other. Be excellent to each other. wow, man.
Nope

West Hartford, CT

#23 Oct 10, 2012
LOL wrote:
Regarding posts #2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, all posted within minutes of each other, squealing in protest over this new branch of the conversation on exemptions: is this getting too close to home for comfort? Ouch! LOL!
Regarding your comment: Is the call to hold Peters accountable hitting a little too close for you? Is that why you're trying to keep us divided?

Typical of his supporters.
I Am Optimistic

New York, NY

#24 Oct 11, 2012
just me wrote:
<quoted text>
I am really confused. The NY State Tax website says that the "E" exemption group is for "Property of Private Community Service Organizations, Social Organizations, and Professional Societies." What part of 410 Canal Place is used for ANY of those uses? I looked at the ORPTS website, and it says the City of Little Falls has 56 "E" exempt properties. But all the codes for "E" exempt properties are for non-profit or veteran organizations, like the YMCA. What's up with this? I am sure there is a valid reason for that exemption, but I sure as heck cannot figure it out. I would LOVE for someone to explain it!
This also raise the question: why, of all the 56 non-governmental exempt properties in the City of Little Falls, did the City decide to go after just one, the YMCA? This really is a question of fairness, transparency in government, and due process.
I believe that we have fair, transparent government in Little Falls. I really do. That is why I am optimistic that this exemption on 410 Canal Place is on the up and up. I really do.

You see, I believe the NYS ORPTS website when it says that all of the Group E exemptions in Little Falls are for non-profit organizations and veterans organizations. I really do.

And I believe that the City Assessor really reviews each exemption every year, like the City web-site says she does. It's her job, after all. So I really believe that she is perfectly well aware of what all of the Group E exemptions are for, and that she would have corrected the ORPTS if the information were wrong. I really do.

And I believe that the City Assessor really knows that 410 Canal Place is a for-profit business. After all, I have seen her socializing with the owners of that building many times over the past year. So I believe she is aware that 410 Canal Places is not a non-profit or veterans organization. I really do.

So, yes, I believe that the tax exemption on 410 Canal Place is on the up and up. I really do. I just cannot figure out how. Maybe I am just not smart enough?
The Empty Chair

United States

#25 Oct 11, 2012
I Am Optimistic wrote:
<quoted text>

Maybe I am just not smart enough?
I simplified your post to help you get the main theme across more clearly.
just a guess

Ilion, NY

#26 Oct 11, 2012
I Am Optimistic wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that we have fair, transparent government in Little Falls. I really do. That is why I am optimistic that this exemption on 410 Canal Place is on the up and up. I really do.
You see, I believe the NYS ORPTS website when it says that all of the Group E exemptions in Little Falls are for non-profit organizations and veterans organizations. I really do.
And I believe that the City Assessor really reviews each exemption every year, like the City web-site says she does. It's her job, after all. So I really believe that she is perfectly well aware of what all of the Group E exemptions are for, and that she would have corrected the ORPTS if the information were wrong. I really do.
And I believe that the City Assessor really knows that 410 Canal Place is a for-profit business. After all, I have seen her socializing with the owners of that building many times over the past year. So I believe she is aware that 410 Canal Places is not a non-profit or veterans organization. I really do.
So, yes, I believe that the tax exemption on 410 Canal Place is on the up and up. I really do. I just cannot figure out how. Maybe I am just not smart enough?
I'm just guessing but perhaps the "E" exemption on the 410 property is only a partial exemption ($26,910), of the full assessed amount ($82,000), because only part of the building (33%) qualifies for it? This is also assuming that you really know that ALL of the Group E exemptions in Little Falls are for non-profit organizations and veterans organizations?

I think you are letting your emotions cloud your judgment.
just a guess

Ilion, NY

#27 Oct 11, 2012
Here is a list of property tax exemptions in the State of NY...I'm just guessing but perhaps "Optimistic's" statement that ALL "E" exemptions in LF are ONLY for non-profit & vet organizations is "just a guess" on his/her part?

FWIW, I stopped counting after about 100 exemptions...there are A LOT f them available.

http://www.tax.ny.gov/research/property/asses...
just a guess

Ilion, NY

#28 Oct 11, 2012
Just a guess but maybe the partial exemption is for this?

Residential-commercial Properties in Certain Counties

RPTL Section 485-n


Exemption Code(s): 4449_

Year Originally Enacted: 2011

Related Statutes: None

SUMMARY: To the extent allowed by local option, properties on which will exist after completion of commercial construction work a building used for commercial purposes, or after completion of residential construction work or a combination of residential construction work and commercial construction work a building used for both residential and commercial purposes, or where dwellings units are created, modernized, rehabilitated, expanded or otherwise improved in the portion of mixed-use property used for residential purposes, and which are located within benefit areas designated in local law by municipalities in certain counties (see Location Requirements) are partially exempt from city, town, or village purposes, and town special ad valorem levies, but liable for special assessments. The duration of the exemption benefit is 12 years, where the 100 percent of the base amount attributable to the construction work is exempt during the first 8 years of the exemption, 80 percent is exempt in the 9th year, 60 percent is exempt in the 10th year, 40 percent is exempt in the 11th year, and 20 percent is exempt in the 12th year. Upon adoption of a local law, any other municipal corporation in which the designated benefit area is located may likewise offer this exemption from taxation and ad valorem levies in local law, or in resolution by the school district(s).
Prince Vellveeta

Fort Plain, NY

#29 Oct 11, 2012
Sure is wrote:
<quoted text>
It's closed to new business, still exist for grandfather businesses. It's run by the Herkimer County IDA.
http://www.esd.ny.gov/BusinessPrograms/Empire...
Interesting. I wonder why then, canajoharie lost theirs? You'd think they would have kept that to attract someone to take over the Beech Nut factory.
Prince Vellveeta

Fort Plain, NY

#30 Oct 11, 2012
Sure is wrote:
<quoted text>
It's closed to new business, still exist for grandfather businesses. It's run by the Herkimer County IDA.
http://www.esd.ny.gov/BusinessPrograms/Empire...
Think about it, How fair is that? Kind of reenforces the anti competition conspiracy theory.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#31 Oct 11, 2012
just a guess wrote:
<quoted text>

I think you are letting your emotions cloud your judgment.
Your tactfulness is quite admirable.
I Am Optimistic

New York, NY

#32 Oct 11, 2012
just a guess wrote:
Here is a list of property tax exemptions in the State of NY...I'm just guessing but perhaps "Optimistic's" statement that ALL "E" exemptions in LF are ONLY for non-profit & vet organizations is "just a guess" on his/her part?
No, it is not a guess. I took this directly from the ORPTS website, which says there are 56 Group E exemptions in the City of Little Falls. 17 are for churches. 9 are for non-profits with an educational purpose. 3 are for non-profits with a charitable purpose. 9 are for non-profits owned by the hospital. 13 are for non-profits with a purpose of moral/mental improvement (I am guessing HARC accounts for a lot of those). The remaining 5 are for veterans organizations. That is the information that the NY State Office or Real Property Tax Services has published on E Group exemptions for the City of Little Falls.

As I said, I am optimistic there is a good reason for this exemption on 410 Canal Place; I am just confused about why it is listed as an E Group exemption, since those are for non-profits and community service organizations? I will admit that I do not understand all the ins and outs of property tax exemptions, and I would like to get smarter about them. And I am sure that if there is a mistake, the Assessor will correct it.

For what it is worth, neither 25 West Mill Street nor 395 Canal Place have any exemptions on those properties. I wonder if there is something about 410 Canal Place that makes it special? Or maybe taxlookup dot net is incorrect, and listed the exemption in error?

I would like to clear this up.
I Am Optimistic

New York, NY

#33 Oct 11, 2012
just a guess wrote:
Just a guess but maybe the partial exemption is for this?
Residential-commercial Properties in Certain Counties
RPTL Section 485-n
Exemption Code(s): 4449_
That would be a Group F exemption, wouldn't it?

Is there a way to tell when the exemption as first placed on the property, and the reason? That might help clear this up. Perhaps it is just a clerical error? Or we may be misreading the ORPTS guidelines to conclude that the exemption on 410 Canal Place is for non-profits?
I Am LESS Optimistic

New York, NY

#34 Oct 11, 2012
Sunshine Disinfects wrote:
<quoted text>
There are 2,292 parcels in Little Falls. 1,274 of them, or 55.58%, have full or partial exemptions. MOST of those exemptions, 1,456 to be exact, are partial exemptions, primarily STAR exemptions. But 128 parcels are fully exempt, and 59 of those are in private hands while the rest are public properties.
Well, I went back to taxlookup dot net. According to that property tax database, that $29,000+ property tax exemption on 410 Canal Place DID NOT EXIST prior to tax year 2011 (2010 data is missing). There was NO exemption on 410 Canal Place in 2009 or 2007. This APPEARS to be a BRAND NEW tax exemption, folks.

Maybe the city needed to go after the YMCA's tax exemptions to pay for the tax exemption they just gave to the Stone Mill?
no longer a guess

Ilion, NY

#35 Oct 11, 2012
Ok time to call "Optimistic" out on the carpet for a.) not knowing how to do simple math & b.) being a raving lunatic.

You keep yelling that 410 Canal place got a $29,000+ tax break...you sir/madam are an idiot. If you look at the taxlookup page you will notice the following:

Assessed value is $82,000
Tax rate is $92.12 per thousand
Full tax would be $7553.84

Assessed value with the $26,910 exemption =$55090
Tax rate is STILL $92.12 per thousand
Tax is $5074.89

See how that works!!??!!! So, they did NOT get a $29,000+ tax break they got a break of $2,478.95.

Let's go a little further, okay?

The "Y" pays zero.

410 Canal pays
City Tax =$5074.89
Water/ Sewer Tax =$609.67
School Tax =$10768.24
Library Tax =$109.88

TOTAL =$16,562.68 in taxes
Exemption =$2478.95
WITHOUT the exemption it would be $19041.63

TOTAL tax break for 410 Canal = 13%
My total STAR exemption = 23%
YOUR total STAR exemption = close to mine I'm sure

You DO NOT know what the $2,478.95 tax break is for but I for one am glad to give it to them because they are paying a SHEETLOAD in taxes!

The "Y" pays $0.00 (good for them!)
410 Canal pays $16,562.68 (wow that's a lot!)

How much the Y contributes to the police force that has to show up to their slum house so often to arrest people??? NOTHING

How much the 410 Canal property contributes? A lot.

You are nothing but an elitist NIMBY slob who doesn't want to give anyone a tax break in YOUR BACK YARD.
Much Less Optimistic

New York, NY

#36 Oct 11, 2012
no longer a guess wrote:
See how that works!!??!!! So, they did NOT get a $29,000+ tax break they got a break of $2,478.95.
On the exemption: I don't think ANY of us expected to learn 410 Canal Place, of all the properties in Little Falls, got a nice fat tax exemption at roughly the same time the city assessor apparently began planning to attack the YMCA tax exemptions. As I have said, this probably is on the up and up. But two things emerge, in my mind at least:

1.) It looks VERY wrong for this particular commercial property to get a brand new property tax exemption when the City is going broke.

2.) The City really needs to clarify that the Stone Mill did NOT get a Group E non-profit exemption, as the taxlookup dot net database seems to suggest, because that would be a genuine scandal worthy of investigation by the State AG.

A note on your math, since you seem so proud of it: it is a $29,000 exemption, and that produces a cash break of $2,479 if your math is correct. No duh, Captain Obvious! That is how exemptions work. So why doesn't Canal Side get an exemption? Why doesn't 25 West get an exemption? Why don't any of the other retail establishments in Little Falls get an exemption? Do you think THOSE might be fair questions?
What the hey

Liverpool, NY

#37 Oct 11, 2012
Check out the assessments of 2 of the former mayors. That should really get your blood boiling
optimistic caught lying

Ilion, NY

#38 Oct 11, 2012
Much Less Optimistic wrote:
<quoted text>
On the exemption: I don't think ANY of us expected to learn 410 Canal Place, of all the properties in Little Falls, got a nice fat tax exemption at roughly the same time the city assessor apparently began planning to attack the YMCA tax exemptions. As I have said, this probably is on the up and up. But two things emerge, in my mind at least:
1.) It looks VERY wrong for this particular commercial property to get a brand new property tax exemption when the City is going broke.
2.) The City really needs to clarify that the Stone Mill did NOT get a Group E non-profit exemption, as the taxlookup dot net database seems to suggest, because that would be a genuine scandal worthy of investigation by the State AG.
A note on your math, since you seem so proud of it: it is a $29,000 exemption, and that produces a cash break of $2,479 if your math is correct. No duh, Captain Obvious! That is how exemptions work. So why doesn't Canal Side get an exemption? Why doesn't 25 West get an exemption? Why don't any of the other retail establishments in Little Falls get an exemption? Do you think THOSE might be fair questions?
Either you are a complete fool that can't get anything right or you are just a pathological liar...which is it?

A tax exemption for non-profits (like the Y defend or the church you defame when you damn people to Hell) is listed on your favorite taxlookup dot net site as

Exemptions: N/P-M

and NOT "BUS E" like you claimed that you just KNEW was right. You are wrong, again.

I will state again...you do NOT know what you are talking about and you do NOT know what the "BUS E" exemption is for and you do NOT know why 410 Canal is getting it just like you do NOT know why 25 w mill is not getting it.

So instead of trying to do any reasearch and trying to post anything worthwhile you are just fanning these flames with lies, lies, and more lies sprinkled with a liberal does of stupidity.

A Bit More Optimistic

New York, NY

#39 Oct 11, 2012
optimistic caught lying wrote:
Exemptions: N/P-M
and NOT "BUS E" like you claimed that you just KNEW was right. You are wrong, again.
Settle down. Don't be so emotional. This is useful information, so THANK YOU for adding constructively to the conversation. Like I said, there has to be an explanation. Apparently, the City and the ORPTS use different codes, perhaps? I would still like to know what the "BUS E" property tax exemption is based on.

And I don't see why you are accusing me of lying? The facts (not opinions) based on all the evidence introduced so far are:

1.) According to the City tax database on taxlookup dot net, around 2011 the Stone Mill got a property tax exemption from the City of Little Falls for a little over $29,000.

2.) According to the County property tax rolls online, Herkimer County did NOT give the Stone Mill any exemption. So only the City saw fit to give the exemption.

3.) In 2011 or early 2012, the City began the process of taking away the property tax exemptions from the YMCA for a number of properties, finally settling on the Co-Op and two community housing properties.

4.) The YMCA has sued the City of Little Falls for alleged improprieties in taking away the Y's exemptions.

Those are facts. Cold, hard facts. Do you want my *OPINION*? Okay, here is my opinion:

1.) The owners of the Stone Mill have every right in the world to petition he City to intervene in their (I think legitimate) grievance against the YMCA. However, a number of people, myself included, told David that they were going too far to try to goad the City into going after the Y's exemptions. But they did it anyway, and that is their RIGHT as citizens. And I actually admire their pluck and willingness to fight dirty for what they believe in.

2.) It looks really, REALLY bad that the owners of the Stone Mill finagled a property tax exemption from the City at the same time that they were petitioning the City to investigate the propriety of the YMCA's exemptions. Tony is a compromiser more than a street-fighter, but if I were him I would be all over this like white on rice. This situation fails the smell test.
LOL

Herkimer, NY

#40 Oct 11, 2012
Nope wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding your comment: Is the call to hold Peters accountable hitting a little too close for you? Is that why you're trying to keep us divided?
Typical of his supporters.
Now you want to throw Bobby under the bus? After all he did for you? LOL! And yes, I support Bob much of the time. But for the record, if he it turns out to be true that he gave those boys a tax exemption out of friendship, and then chopped the YMCA's exemptions for them out of friendship, then he needs to resign in disgrace tomorrow. If it's true, and that remains to be seen.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Little Falls Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Little Falls promo video 58 min Hahahahaha 45
Really, WHO IS THIS PEZ? 3 hr pez golf 26
pez here!! 3 hr Farewell PEZ 3
PEZ SEZ: Gerina Piller is HOT!, 3 hr Farewell PEZ 6
PEZ SLAMS Coach Jim Boeheim 4 hr Bill Murray aka Carl 36
Blabnic 4 hr Nope 14
the pez is relaxing at heron creek 13 hr John Fogerty 21

Little Falls Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Little Falls Mortgages