What If We Adopted A System Where The Banks Did Not Create Our Money?

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1 - 14 of 14 Comments Last updated Oct 30, 2012
Prince velveeta

Fort Plain, NY

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#1
Oct 23, 2012
 

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I think it's about time we start exploring this idea.

There is a better alternative. National governments can directly issue debt-free currency into circulation. The following is a brief excerpt from the IMF report...

"At the height of the Great Depression a number of leading U.S. economists advanced a proposal for monetary reform that became known as the Chicago Plan. It envisaged the separation of the monetary and credit functions of the banking system, by requiring 100% reserve backing for deposits. Irving Fisher (1936) claimed the following advantages for this plan:(1) Much better control of a major source of business cycle fluctuations, sudden increases and contractions of bank credit and of the supply of bank-created money.(2) Complete elimination of bank runs.(3) Dramatic reduction of the (net) public debt.(4) Dramatic reduction of private debt, as money creation no longer requires simultaneous debt creation. We study these claims by embedding a comprehensive and carefully calibrated model of the banking system in a DSGE model of the U.S. economy. We find support for all four of Fisher's claims. There is a better alternative. National governments can directly issue debt-free currency into circulation. The following is a brief excerpt from the IMF report...

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/w...

“Care Enough To Take Action”

Since: Jan 08

Indian Trail, NC

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#2
Oct 23, 2012
 

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Yes...
I bet it would accomplish THOSE goals.
But WHO would want to accomplish those goals?

I sounds like total foolishness.
PV... you've outdone yourself.
Prince velveeta

Fort Plain, NY

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#3
Oct 25, 2012
 

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DEEP QUESTIONS OF THE DAY:

If a debt backed currency is essentially a negotiable bond, where the person (you) having custody of the bond (in your bank account) is both the main borrower/debtor (your signature via the legislature and currency issuer as agents) of the currency, and are also the collateral of the currency (your future work is pledged as taxes to service the bond) why is it shown as an asset on your company or personal balance sheet? Particularly since a portion of the gross profit on the income statement must go to pay "tax".

What would happen, theoretically, if debt backed currencies were moved to the liability side of the of the balance sheet ?

What would it say about the assumptions that underpin national economies that use this type of currency? Do these currencies have a lien holder behind them?

Is it possible to derive a rational model of human society if the premise upon which the model is built, is irrational on it's face?

How DOES one pay off a negotiable bond with yet another negotiable bond?

Since: Nov 11

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#4
Oct 25, 2012
 

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Salmon Chase actually gave the Chicago Plan a trial run. Ever hear of the greenbacks issued by the government during the Civil War? Paper currency that is not evidence of some enforceable debt obligation is just a worthless piece of paper. The greenbacks were exactly that. Want some more examples of the |Chicago Plan in action? Try the Zimbabwe dollar or the Italian lira while it still existed. Great examples of government issued currencies without any underpinning by real debt. Ever wonder how the Spanish empire went broke so quickly. They kicked all the bankers (jews) out and sent them to Amsterdam in 1492. They abandoned all banking and paper currency in favor of hard metal currency flowing in from the new world. Within a century nearly all of Spain's gold and silver had followed the bankers to Amsterdam and Spain had no metal and no paper. At no time during the ensuing 500 years have the Spanish had any viable economic institutions that weren't forced on the by the Germans or French as a result of their folly.
Prince velveeta

Fort Plain, NY

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#5
Oct 25, 2012
 

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CoffinMaker wrote:
Salmon Chase actually gave the Chicago Plan a trial run. Ever hear of the greenbacks issued by the government during the Civil War? Paper currency that is not evidence of some enforceable debt obligation is just a worthless piece of paper. The greenbacks were exactly that. Want some more examples of the |Chicago Plan in action? Try the Zimbabwe dollar or the Italian lira while it still existed. Great examples of government issued currencies without any underpinning by real debt. Ever wonder how the Spanish empire went broke so quickly. They kicked all the bankers (jews) out and sent them to Amsterdam in 1492. They abandoned all banking and paper currency in favor of hard metal currency flowing in from the new world. Within a century nearly all of Spain's gold and silver had followed the bankers to Amsterdam and Spain had no metal and no paper. At no time during the ensuing 500 years have the Spanish had any viable economic institutions that weren't forced on the by the Germans or French as a result of their folly.
The wealthy have always horded and gravitated to each other, including their money, So it's logical to see why Spain's economy crashed. I'm reluctant to take some historical accounts as accurate. They are almost always written by wealthy interests, like it is today. As today we will always have revisionists circle talk and make strawman arguments against it. Debt-free money: The path back to American independence http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/...

Hey, I'm not saying it works in all cases, But this fiat crap is not working either. Debt is slavery, and our money is pure debt. I'm not say gold is the way because the rich have always controlled gold. Just like diamonds, yes it's rare but in an oligarchs hands (DeBeers) it becomes priceless (sic). But in a emergency, you can still get something for gold.

Since: Nov 11

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#6
Oct 25, 2012
 

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Prince velveeta wrote:
<quoted text> The wealthy have always horded and gravitated to each other, including their money, So it's logical to see why Spain's economy crashed. I'm reluctant to take some historical accounts as accurate. They are almost always written by wealthy interests, like it is today. As today we will always have revisionists circle talk and make strawman arguments against it. Debt-free money: The path back to American independence http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/...
Hey, I'm not saying it works in all cases, But this fiat crap is not working either. Debt is slavery, and our money is pure debt. I'm not say gold is the way because the rich have always controlled gold. Just like diamonds, yes it's rare but in an oligarchs hands (DeBeers) it becomes priceless (sic). But in a emergency, you can still get something for gold.
Money has to be one of two things: a debt instrument such as a federal reserve note or an object with a perceived intrinsic value such as a gold coin. Any other type is worthless.

The debt instrument's value depends on the bearer's trust that the debtor will actually stand behind the debt while the object's value depends on trust that society will always value the object.
Prince velveeta

Fort Plain, NY

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#7
Oct 25, 2012
 

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CoffinMaker wrote:
<quoted text>
Money has to be one of two things: a debt instrument such as a federal reserve note or an object with a perceived intrinsic value such as a gold coin. Any other type is worthless.
The debt instrument's value depends on the bearer's trust that the debtor will actually stand behind the debt while the object's value depends on trust that society will always value the object.
The way I see it, monetary policies taught in universities is what they want students to know. They don't teach economic ulterior motive theories. That's for the elites. That's the problem with this country, we all equate education to honesty, as if the higher the degree, the more honest. Too politically correct and they like it that way.
Prince velveeta

Fort Plain, NY

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#8
Oct 25, 2012
 
Jack Handy

Little Falls, NY

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#9
Oct 25, 2012
 
Prince velveeta wrote:
DEEP QUESTIONS OF THE DAY:
If a debt backed currency is essentially a negotiable bond, where the person (you) having custody of the bond (in your bank account) is both the main borrower/debtor (your signature via the legislature and currency issuer as agents) of the currency, and are also the collateral of the currency (your future work is pledged as taxes to service the bond) why is it shown as an asset on your company or personal balance sheet? Particularly since a portion of the gross profit on the income statement must go to pay "tax".
What would happen, theoretically, if debt backed currencies were moved to the liability side of the of the balance sheet ?
What would it say about the assumptions that underpin national economies that use this type of currency? Do these currencies have a lien holder behind them?
Is it possible to derive a rational model of human society if the premise upon which the model is built, is irrational on it's face?
How DOES one pay off a negotiable bond with yet another negotiable bond?
More deep thoughts for the day:

Why does PV copy and paste everything? Is he devoid of his own thoughts? Why does he let others do his thinking for him?
Prince Shortbus

Little Falls, NY

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#10
Oct 25, 2012
 
CoffinMaker wrote:
<quoted text>
Money has to be one of two things: a debt instrument such as a federal reserve note or an object with a perceived intrinsic value such as a gold coin. Any other type is worthless.
The debt instrument's value depends on the bearer's trust that the debtor will actually stand behind the debt while the object's value depends on trust that society will always value the object.
That's a more elaborate explanation of a point I continually try to make to Ron Paul's stoner followers: gold has no more value than paper money. They are both worth essentially what people think (agree) they are worth. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Prince velveeta

Fort Plain, NY

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#12
Oct 25, 2012
 

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Jack Handy wrote:
<quoted text>
More deep thoughts for the day:
Why does PV copy and paste everything? Is he devoid of his own thoughts? Why does he let others do his thinking for him?

YAWN

Yeah willy, that's what I'll do, spend futile hours typing out stuff to combat your tired collectivist crap. You never had an original thought, you just follow party hyperbole.
Prince Pasty

Little Falls, NY

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#13
Oct 29, 2012
 

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Prince velveeta wrote:
YAWN
Yeah willy, that's what I'll do, spend futile hours typing out stuff to combat your tired collectivist crap. You never had an original thought, you just follow party hyperbole.
Yeah, it's a crazy idea, writing out your own thoughts instead of just mindlessly copying and pasting stuff from the internet. Next thing you know I'll actually expect you to read and understand what you're pasting! Crazy, right?

I actually research the crap you post and respond using firsthand sources. 100% my own thoughts, bud. You don't even bother reading your own links. You're incapable of arguing for yourself.

“Care Enough To Take Action”

Since: Jan 08

Indian Trail, NC

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#14
Oct 29, 2012
 
I think it is time.
PV should right 'the manifesto'.
"Economic Theory In Collectivist Oligarchy Era"

In slight defense of PV...
I'd complained that he'd post links without any explanation.
Just a link.
I think he's trying to accommodate me.
And I appreciate it!
And you are complaining that he copies and pastes an explanation.

Some on Topix never put up any links.
They use pure personal opinion... and nothing more.
YOU?
Prince Grabby

Little Falls, NY

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#15
Oct 30, 2012
 

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UTLT wrote:
I think it is time.
PV should right 'the manifesto'.
"Economic Theory In Collectivist Oligarchy Era"
In slight defense of PV...
I'd complained that he'd post links without any explanation.
Just a link.
I think he's trying to accommodate me.
And I appreciate it!
And you are complaining that he copies and pastes an explanation.
Some on Topix never put up any links.
They use pure personal opinion... and nothing more.
YOU?
All he does is re-post whatever Alex Jones tells him to. He's an intellectual nothing. He has no original thoughts; hell, he doesn't even read (or at least understand) the stuff he pastes. I challenge him on things in the articles and he replies with links to pictures.

He's a lightweight and a nobody.

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