Interesting... some actual FACTS regarding the Y

Posted in the Little Falls Forum

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Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#1 Jan 8, 2013
This is from a story in the Utica OD; let's compare the two arguments...

Joy Presta's argument:

"Presta’s affidavit stated she did research on the properties and found that the claim that the apartments are rented below market value is 'an illusory and disingenuous argument …'

'My research indicates that a typical two-bedroom apartment reasonably comparable to the subject apartments would rent in the $400 to $450 range,' she said in the affidavit.'The subject Furnace Street apartments are rented at $350 to $375 respectively.'

Once a 'correction' is made for the lack of property tax expense, Presta said the apartments aren’t a charitable operation.

Presta also offered a similar argument for the Garden Street housing."

So what she is saying is that if you add a property tax expense, the properties are being rented at fair market values. Say the property tax is 2,500 a year (about average for a rental property in town); that's $200 a month, or $100 more per month per apartment, which clearly puts them in fair market value.

Now let's take a look at the Y's response:

"YMCA Attorney Kathleen Bennett, of Bond, Schoeneck & King law office in Syracuse, said the property uses have not changed and previously they’ve received tax exemption."

SO essentially the Y's response is, "this is the way it's always been". Not exactly a convincing argument.
Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#2 Jan 8, 2013
Soooooooooo

Clinton, NY

#3 Jan 8, 2013
That's sleazy, and the rents are paid by the county sec-8 fund, but it's still NOT a reason to tax a non-profit.



Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#4 Jan 8, 2013
Soooooooooo wrote:
That's sleazy, and the rents are paid by the county sec-8 fund, but it's still NOT a reason to tax a non-profit.
It isn't a non-profit.
fact versus opinion

Little Falls, NY

#5 Jan 8, 2013
Soooooooooo wrote:
That's sleazy, and the rents are paid by the county sec-8 fund, but it's still NOT a reason to tax a non-profit.
Your opinion I presume?
URCrazy

Herkimer, NY

#6 Jan 8, 2013
Serious question wrote:
"Presta’s affidavit stated she did research on the properties and found that the claim that the apartments are rented below market value is 'an illusory and disingenuous argument …'
'My research indicates that a typical two-bedroom apartment reasonably comparable to the subject apartments would rent in the $400 to $450 range,' she said in the affidavit.'The subject Furnace Street apartments are rented at $350 to $375 respectively.'
Once a 'correction' is made for the lack of property tax expense, Presta said the apartments aren’t a charitable operation.
Presta also offered a similar argument for the Garden Street housing."
So what she is saying is that if you add a property tax expense, the properties are being rented at fair market values. Say the property tax is 2,500 a year (about average for a rental property in town); that's $200 a month, or $100 more per month per apartment, which clearly puts them in fair market value.
The Presta is an IDIOT. I can't believe she is spouting such drivel in public in the City's name. The whole POINT of tax exemptions is to allow non-profits to provide service like that. She is comparing apples to oranges.
Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#7 Jan 8, 2013
URCrazy wrote:
The Presta is an IDIOT. I can't believe she is spouting such drivel in public in the City's name. The whole POINT of tax exemptions is to allow non-profits to provide service like that. She is comparing apples to oranges.
The point of tax exemptions is to allow people to rent properties at fair market value? I guess I didn't realize that.
They are exempt

Herkimer, NY

#8 Jan 8, 2013
In my opinion, "My Opinion Only", they should be exempt from taxation.

The line:

The law stipulates that property owned by a corporation or association "organized or conducted exclusively for religious, charitable, hospital, educational, or moral or mental improvement of men, women or children purposes, or for two or more such purposes, and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes … shall be exempt from taxation."

This line states it in itself. The YMCA does provide "educational" and "mental" improvement of men, women, and children. So it shall be Tax Exempt.

I don't see what the issue is?
landlord piping in

Little Falls, NY

#9 Jan 8, 2013
Serious question wrote:
<quoted text>
The point of tax exemptions is to allow people to rent properties at fair market value? I guess I didn't realize that.
I have got to get me one of them tax exemptions like the Y has for its tenement housing! I may sue if I don't get one and cite Y as precedent!
Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#10 Jan 8, 2013
They are exempt wrote:
In my opinion, "My Opinion Only", they should be exempt from taxation.
The line:
The law stipulates that property owned by a corporation or association "organized or conducted exclusively for religious, charitable, hospital, educational, or moral or mental improvement of men, women or children purposes, or for two or more such purposes, and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes … shall be exempt from taxation."
This line states it in itself. The YMCA does provide "educational" and "mental" improvement of men, women, and children. So it shall be Tax Exempt.
I don't see what the issue is?
Interesting that you left out "and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes". The law, in its entirety, states:

"...property owned by a corporation or association "organized or conducted exclusively for religious, charitable, hospital, educational, or moral or mental improvement of men, women or children purposes, or for two or more such purposes, and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes … shall be exempt from taxation."

The rental properties the Y owns and rents out at fair market value are clearly NOT tax-exempt. Nice try though.
are you kidding me

Little Falls, NY

#11 Jan 8, 2013
They are exempt wrote:
In my opinion, "My Opinion Only", they should be exempt from taxation.
The line:
The law stipulates that property owned by a corporation or association "organized or conducted exclusively for religious, charitable, hospital, educational, or moral or mental improvement of men, women or children purposes, or for two or more such purposes, and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes … shall be exempt from taxation."
This line states it in itself. The YMCA does provide "educational" and "mental" improvement of men, women, and children. So it shall be Tax Exempt.
I don't see what the issue is?
Please, please give me ONE INSTANCE where the Y provides "educational" and "mental" improvement to the residents of their rental houses on Garden & Furnace. Do they send tutors, or psychiatrists, or life coaches, or nutritional specialists, or nurses or priests to the Garden & Furnace street houses? I didn't think so...from looking at the crime blotters for those houses it seems like the Y is failing in its mission, hmmm????
They are exempt

Herkimer, NY

#12 Jan 8, 2013
I left out "and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes", because I thought it was implied when I stated that, in my opinion, they covered two examples.

They don't have to do any of those things to those rental houses, they are covered under the umbrella of the YMCA, and then therefore tax exempt.(i.e.- The YMCS owns them, and brings income in from them, to help offset the services it provides).

You take away the rentals houses, and you'll be destroying the YMCA.

I beleive the YMCA qualifies for this with just the basic classes, such as, Swim classes for kids, zumba or whatever workout classes they give for adults, gymnastics for kids, ect.....
They are exempt

Herkimer, NY

#13 Jan 8, 2013
***believe

Damn, you'd think I'd notice the spelling errors when they put the red line under if for me.
Indy

Broomfield, CO

#14 Jan 8, 2013
The whole thing smells of dead fish.
Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#15 Jan 8, 2013
They are exempt wrote:
I left out "and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes", because I thought it was implied when I stated that, in my opinion, they covered two examples.
They don't have to do any of those things to those rental houses, they are covered under the umbrella of the YMCA, and then therefore tax exempt.(i.e.- The YMCS owns them, and brings income in from them, to help offset the services it provides).
Really? So if the Y starts a car dealership, will that be tax-exempt as well? I mean it's under the umbrella of the YMCA, right?
Come to bed honey

Herkimer, NY

#16 Jan 8, 2013
Indy wrote:
The whole thing smells of dead fish.
That's your wife.
Enough

Little Falls, NY

#17 Jan 8, 2013
They are exempt wrote:
I left out "and used exclusively for carrying out thereupon one or more such purposes", because I thought it was implied when I stated that, in my opinion, they covered two examples.
They don't have to do any of those things to those rental houses, they are covered under the umbrella of the YMCA, and then therefore tax exempt.(i.e.- The YMCS owns them, and brings income in from them, to help offset the services it provides).
You take away the rentals houses, and you'll be destroying the YMCA.
I beleive the YMCA qualifies for this with just the basic classes, such as, Swim classes for kids, zumba or whatever workout classes they give for adults, gymnastics for kids, ect.....
The classes that they charge for. What does that income offset?

Since: Jan 10

ishmael.org

#18 Jan 8, 2013
Serious question wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? So if the Y starts a car dealership, will that be tax-exempt as well? I mean it's under the umbrella of the YMCA, right?
If they accepted donated cars for redistribution to needy people...then yes.
Thanks for asking.

Presta's in. Mayor peters broke a 4/4 tie.

But, if Presta can't understand a simple YMCA non-profit issue, how can she be trusted to fairly and accurately assess other properties?

Threatening to Tax a non-profit just because some of their tenants were disturbing the peace is not the right way to go about solving a neighborhood nuisance problem. By even going along with such a plan, I have to wonder if the assessor has integrity issues.

Besides that, a job like assessor should be advertised and interviews should be done. Who else is qualified? Maybe a Vet? Maybe someone with a disability? Maybe someone who understands what a 501 3-C is? Maybe someone who can not be manipulated so easily? A disinterested party is best.

Thank you all who spoke up tonight. Too bad that room isn't a little bigger. It's hard to hear from the stairwell and there were more folks in the stairwell than in the room. Obviously that room is designed to keep people out.

Maybe it's time to move the meetings elsewhere and donate that building to the YMCA.
Serious question

Herkimer, NY

#19 Jan 8, 2013
lshmaeI wrote:
If they accepted donated cars for redistribution to needy people...then yes.
Thanks for asking.
Wow, the disingenuousness reaches new heights.
lshmaeI wrote:
But, if Presta can't understand a simple YMCA non-profit issue, how can she be trusted to fairly and accurately assess other properties?
Threatening to Tax a non-profit just because some of their tenants were disturbing the peace is not the right way to go about solving a neighborhood nuisance problem. By even going along with such a plan, I have to wonder if the assessor has integrity issues.
Again, you make it really hard for people who are trying to agree with you. First of all, this has nothing to do with disturbing the peace issues. Secondly, you can't say any more than I can with certainty if the rental properties are tax-exempt or not. I would argue by the letter of the law they are not. They are renting apartments to people at fair market value. That's not low-income, that's not emergency, and it certainly isn't temporary. However, after the meeting tonight I'm willing to give the Y a pass. They have issues they need to address, but the real problem is Bobby.

Since: Jan 10

ishmael.org

#20 Jan 9, 2013
Serious question wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, the disingenuousness reaches new heights.
<quoted text>
Again, you make it really hard for people who are trying to agree with you. First of all, this has nothing to do with disturbing the peace issues. Secondly, you can't say any more than I can with certainty if the rental properties are tax-exempt or not.
Those properties are as exempt as the rental rooms upstairs in the main building.

But, I'm not getting into it with you.
It's no mystery why the YMCA was targeted.
"As has been amply demonstrated, they have done an absolutely atrocious job of vetting some of the people at the Garden Street property. Aside from the criminality, I don't know what charitable purpose it provides to give a bunch of lowlifes a place to sit out front of and drink and smoke all day."
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/little-falls-...

More
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/little-falls-...

LF Tax Exempt
http://www.taxexemptworld.com/organizations/l...

Donate your car
http://www.donateacar2charity.com/

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