Quit fighting; go to work

Quit fighting; go to work

There are 16 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Aug 4, 2010, titled Quit fighting; go to work. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

I am sick and tired of hearing about the incumbents and all they did that was wrong in candidates' eyes.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

former Ranger

Centuria, WI

#1 Aug 5, 2010
Bill Henry - "I am concerned about Starbuck's. If they are forced to use English, what will become of "Vente" and "Grande"? "
Making English our official language will not force any company to have to use English only. It will also not force any immigrant to learn English. It will save the state money by not having to translate documents into other languages.
Perhaps they should pass a law so no one has two first names!
Former Ranger

Centuria, WI

#2 Aug 5, 2010
"The last thing we need in this interminable economic recession is to get stuck with another publicly funded stadium for a zillionaire."
Wouldn't that be similar to a stimulus? Wouldn't that put people to work and employ local construction workers?

I guess we could always sink that money into education and watch it disappear!
Eddie

Saint Paul, MN

#3 Aug 5, 2010
former Ranger wrote:
It will save the state money by not having to translate documents into other languages.
Prove that, with actual budget facts, and then also calculate the costs of not doing any translations (you know, needing actual human beings to deal with people who don't have excellent English skills trying to communicate without knowing their language).

I await your factual proof.

Lino Lakes has spent $0.
Eddie

Saint Paul, MN

#4 Aug 5, 2010
Former Ranger wrote:
I guess we could always sink that money into education and watch it disappear!
Exactly! The richest and strongest societies are the ones with an ignorant, illiterate population!

Great thinking!
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#5 Aug 5, 2010
Eddie wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove that, with actual budget facts, and then also calculate the costs of not doing any translations (you know, needing actual human beings to deal with people who don't have excellent English skills trying to communicate without knowing their language).
I await your factual proof.
Lino Lakes has spent $0.
C'mon, Eddie, think about it. Think about the documents a city produces and how much they cost and then multiply it by 10 or so. Right now, my water bill comes on a post card that the city mails for $0.28 each. If that bill is to be produced in 10 different languages, it will take two sheets of paper, an envelope, and $0.44 in postage.

Instead of one sign in the city park that gives the rules and ordinances about park usage, there will have to be ten of them lined up like a wall. Now put that on a state level and think about the highway signs that direct us here, there, and everywhere.

Instead of a one page property tax statement, there will be ten pages and nine of them will get thrown away. Then push that concept to the state level and think of all the paper they publish (tax statements, rules and regulations, licensing, driver's manuals, etc.) and realize that any one individual will throw 90% of it away. Have you no concern about the environment?

Why do I say 10 languages? That may be a conservative estimate. Check out your city and start counting all the languages of the current residents and not just Latin American but Euorpean (Norwegian, Swedish, German, Italian, Polish, etc), Asian (Hmong, Chinese, Japanese, etc), and African as well. It is likely to go far beyond that on a state level. Individuals need to be self-sufficient and take responsibility for themselves which is why legal immigration requires a sponsor and it would be the sponsor's responsibility to translate government documents and help the immigrant through government regulations (which is why less is better) for however long it takes until the immigrant learns English and can function on their own. The government, at any level, is not supposed to be all things to all people. They are not your babysitter.

It's possible, Eddie, that I missed your point entirely. Were you suggesting that Lino Lakes (and potentially, the state of Minnesota) should not take any preventative action to ward off expenses but wait until the money is gone and then try to figure out how to get it back? Isn't that like suggesting the city shouldn't buy a firetruck until after something burns down?
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#6 Aug 5, 2010
A private corporation like Starbucks will never be forced to use English only unless the government takes over Starbucks and everybody knows that that can never ...(wait a minute - General Motors? Health Insurance? Financial institutions?)... never mind.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#7 Aug 5, 2010
" ... Pawlenty probably doesn't know of any other "fast-pencil" tactics to take money from one place and put it in another .." - Diane Masloski, Hastings

If a family had to take money from their vacation fund to buy groceries, would you call that "fast-pencil" tactics?
Really

Avon, CO

#8 Aug 5, 2010
"I await your factual proof.

Lino Lakes has spent $0."

It'd be really neat if you could prove this....
George

Saint Paul, MN

#9 Aug 5, 2010
Diane - you are wrong. We should never listen to Arnie Carlson. After all, he was the one who told us that the Twins were going to move to North Carolina.
dick

Ivins, UT

#10 Aug 5, 2010
Lower wages so illegal people without citizenship can work.

Meanwhile many actual citizens are without jobs.

Proof enough for me.

Remember, lower wages make the rich richer. If you believe they charge less for lower wages, you are probably also looking to buy a government bridge.
George

Saint Paul, MN

#11 Aug 5, 2010
Gndydncr wrote:
<quoted text>
C'mon, Eddie, think about it. Think about the documents a city produces and how much they cost and then multiply it by 10 or so. Right now, my water bill comes on a post card that the city mails for $0.28 each. If that bill is to be produced in 10 different languages, it will take two sheets of paper, an envelope, and $0.44 in postage.
Instead of one sign in the city park that gives the rules and ordinances about park usage, there will have to be ten of them lined up like a wall. Now put that on a state level and think about the highway signs that direct us here, there, and everywhere.
Instead of a one page property tax statement, there will be ten pages and nine of them will get thrown away. Then push that concept to the state level and think of all the paper they publish (tax statements, rules and regulations, licensing, driver's manuals, etc.) and realize that any one individual will throw 90% of it away. Have you no concern about the environment?
Why do I say 10 languages? That may be a conservative estimate. Check out your city and start counting all the languages of the current residents and not just Latin American but Euorpean (Norwegian, Swedish, German, Italian, Polish, etc), Asian (Hmong, Chinese, Japanese, etc), and African as well. It is likely to go far beyond that on a state level. Individuals need to be self-sufficient and take responsibility for themselves which is why legal immigration requires a sponsor and it would be the sponsor's responsibility to translate government documents and help the immigrant through government regulations (which is why less is better) for however long it takes until the immigrant learns English and can function on their own. The government, at any level, is not supposed to be all things to all people. They are not your babysitter.
It's possible, Eddie, that I missed your point entirely. Were you suggesting that Lino Lakes (and potentially, the state of Minnesota) should not take any preventative action to ward off expenses but wait until the money is gone and then try to figure out how to get it back? Isn't that like suggesting the city shouldn't buy a firetruck until after something burns down?
You will also need the time of a computer programmer to make the system determine which language to use and make the necessary changes. A business analyst will design the documents in the different languages amoung many other people involved. From a data processing standpoint, this will be a multi-million dollar project. Multiply this by each govermental unit (also include every state agency)in the state. I am a systems design engineer with over 30 years in the industry.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#12 Aug 6, 2010
Eddie wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove that, with actual budget facts, and then also calculate the costs of not doing any translations (you know, needing actual human beings to deal with people who don't have excellent English skills trying to communicate without knowing their language).
I await your factual proof.
Lino Lakes has spent $0.
You actually need facts to understand that NOT having to hire someone to translate papers would save money? I await your factual proof that hiring translators saves money!

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#13 Aug 6, 2010
Eddie wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly! The richest and strongest societies are the ones with an ignorant, illiterate population!
Great thinking!
Let's see, I constantly read about how poor the students are doing, while we spend more on education than ever before. I got news for you, more money does not translate into better students, if it did they'd all be getting A's.
Urban Chick

Circle Pines, MN

#14 Aug 6, 2010
dick wrote:
Lower wages so illegal people without citizenship can work.
Meanwhile many actual citizens are without jobs.
Proof enough for me.
Remember, lower wages make the rich richer. If you believe they charge less for lower wages, you are probably also looking to buy a government bridge.
I've said this before and I'll say it again-every year I visit my mom in Texas out in those hot fields there are never white folks laboring to pick vegtables. I don't know if the folks are legal or not. Several years ago after a major Northwest lay off I called my brother to see if any of his laid off friends wanted to roof my house for $20.00 and hour and was told they'd take no less than the wages they had been making, I called a well known contractor the next day several non-english (again don't know if they were legal or not) were on my roof in 90 degree weather from sun up to sun down.

I grew up being told an honest days labor, no matter what it was is my responsibility to my family. People who point fingers at illegals are part of the problem. Face it most legal are just plain lazy and would rather complain than actually pick fiels, wash dishes, roof houses or anything else that require hard physical work.
We have to keep up

Minneapolis, MN

#15 Aug 12, 2010
Former Ranger: "Let's see, I constantly read about how poor the students are doing, while we spend more on education than ever before. I got news for you, more money does not translate into better students, if it did they'd all be getting A's."

Our students in MN do quite well nationally. The success of our schools are because we spend the money on our schools, don't kid yourself. If spending less on public education is the answer for better schools, why aren't Florida and Texas leading the nation?

Education is like anything else, you get what you pay for. School districts in Eden Prairie, Edina, Minnetonka, and Orono nearly ALWAYS pass their school levies for increased funding. Funny, their schools rank at or near the top year after year.

Education is a matter of national security. Countries like China and India are DUMPING money into their schools and public universities, focusing on math and science. We have to keep up. They undertand what's at stake, but here, we prefer no new taxes.... how shortsighted.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#16 Aug 12, 2010
We have to keep up wrote:
Former Ranger: "Let's see, I constantly read about how poor the students are doing, while we spend more on education than ever before. I got news for you, more money does not translate into better students, if it did they'd all be getting A's."
Our students in MN do quite well nationally. The success of our schools are because we spend the money on our schools, don't kid yourself. If spending less on public education is the answer for better schools, why aren't Florida and Texas leading the nation?
Education is like anything else, you get what you pay for. School districts in Eden Prairie, Edina, Minnetonka, and Orono nearly ALWAYS pass their school levies for increased funding. Funny, their schools rank at or near the top year after year.
Education is a matter of national security. Countries like China and India are DUMPING money into their schools and public universities, focusing on math and science. We have to keep up. They undertand what's at stake, but here, we prefer no new taxes.... how shortsighted.
Maybe if we dump more money into education, our students would have to fail a test at least four times before giving them a pass.

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