Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,623

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
curious

Ocoee, FL

#132056 Jun 6, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
That's "Gordian Knot"
As cleaved in two by Alexander.
The same way we use the blade of Occam's Razor to remove all superfluous deities. That includes yours.
Well,you are no Alexander, you are still tied up in a Gordian knot and YOUR Occam's razor is dull,rusty and made of paper mache

You have not removed myGod. By what you have recently posted all you have done is contradict your recent beliefs.
You now believe that energy is eternal? Why did you change your mind? Because you had no choice.
Energy can not be created by natural means, therefore,it can only be created by Supernatural means ,, But you claim not to believe in the supernatural, that it is magic and delusional.
As an atheist , you are now confronted with a dilema,,, Was energy created by a supernatural Being? you can't admit to that so , you now are forced to believe that energy is eternal , needs no creator and has the power to exist within itself,, That is supernatural.
Invention is the mother of necessity and you found it necessary to contradict yourself and invent some lame excuse in order to defend your faith

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132057 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have on no blinders regarding this topic.
As well, what I believe and what terrorists believe will never be the same....unless they repent to the one whose true nature is God, accepts Jesus Christ and the life he freely gives. There is more to this...
What took place in the OT is not people killing because they thought God wanted them to. Events that took place did so according to that time. Our history, during the western years, didn't people pull out guns, shot and kill alot. It was that time, not a good one but it was the state in which people were (so to speak).{Interruptions-sorry, I lost my train of thought but hope you get the gist}
I did not express my feelings about the Moses account, I shared "little" of the circumstances that surrounded what took place.
I feel innocent people should not suffer and be killed but to obtain this, the guilty must be sentenced.
Example: A man lived in one city and killed close to 100 people. Unfortunately, he escaped. The man made it to another city on the other side of the USA. In this new city, something happened that brought about a true change in the man's heart and in his life. He killed no one since he fled from the former city. In fact, his co-workers all held him in high esteem. He was kind to his neighbors, helpful and displayed genuine compassion for others. The police from the former city received tips on his location in the new city. When the man was at his workplace, a large number of police officers surrounded the building, to include SWAT teams. The man was apprehended and arrested without incident. Though, the people in this new city was stunned that the police would have so many officers present for this very gentle man. The people in this new city verbally defended this, as many were still in shock at the number of officers present at the man's arrest. They knew of the man's present but they did not know his past. It was made known that this man killed close to 100 people in his former city. Many people immediately turned against him and demanded his execution, while others still doubted whether or not the man could really do such horrible acts. Regardless of what the people may have knew or felt, the man committed these crimes. It was mandatory that this man face sentencing, otherwise it is not justice to the ones that were killed by this man.
The point is that we can only see and speak to a certain moment in time...God sees from the beginning to the end. What looks one way to us is not necessarily the way that it truly is.
So again you seem to think the three thousand people Moses had killed were surely guilty of something worth the death penalty, but the bible leaves that part out? It states why they were killed. You simply cannot believe your main prophet would have people killed for the simple act of worshipping another god.

By your reasoning, I can see how the terrorists justified 9/11.

BTW I did not get the gist of that one paragraph. It made no sense at all.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132058 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Look where your atheism has gotten you...You are now contradicting what you previously claimed were your beliefs. Your faith leaves you no other choice.
We know that energy can not be created by natural laws..
If energy is eternal,it needs no creator,meaning it has life within itself ,making it supernatural.
That is what I claimed about my God, which you called magic and superstition.
You always wanted to know, Who created God?
So,if energy lies outside the bounds of natural law,if it existed before the universe came into being, then it needs be supernatural or created by a supernatural power....
That cordian knot your faith has tied on you has you all tied up with no place to go other than contradicting yourself
BTW , I only now hear you claim that energy is eternal.. You never made that claim before.
Necessity is the mother of invention and out of necessity you had to invent that excuse.
The idea of eternal energy defies no scientific principles. It is why it thought to be likely.

Energy is not supernatural. Just because it is not fully known how life came to be, it does not mean the energy was magic. Again you simply insert magic to anything that is not known. It is surely how your god was invented. The ancients did not know much science, so they invented gods to put into the gaps. You are doing the same.
spaceship

Roseville, CA

#132059 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The article is entitled, "10 Scientists Who Claim to Have Proof about the Existence of God".
It is only the article I am reading...the lewd advertisements or any other article, I paid no attention. I apologize to you and all if offended.
I'm reading some bad stuff about the NTCC. Do you agree with the claims?

The strength of NTCC lies not in their inspiration, nor with the power of their message, but with their exclusive claim to the truth. Those who buy in to this claim are prevented from thinking that escape is possible without leaving God. Such thinking would create a vulnerability, a weakness in the armor with which the organization equips itself. Such an unhealthy spiritual environment should not be tolerated, nor should it exist in the first place. The best thing to do for your own personal well-being and that of your family is to part ways with this group. If you think that by remaining involved you will eventually help other people come to their senses, you are entertaining a self-destructive fantasy based upon false hope.

But be informed: nobody is allowed to leave under favorable circumstances. You risk the loss of friends, sometimes even your spouse, because the church believes in the preeminent importance of its own cohesion above all other considerations. Do not think it will be easy. We will not attempt to deceive you into thinking there will be no exit trauma. But here are a few things you can keep in mind in order to make the transition to the real world just a bit more smooth.

NTCC considers disloyalty to the organization as grounds for divorce, and will encourage your spouse to leave you and remarry someone within the organizational fold. They have their members duped into believing that they cannot be saved if they leave, and your spouse will very likely be inclined to view your newfound insights as a symptom of spiritual death. Do not allow the organization to play this game with you. If you cannot convince your spouse to see the truth, do not be overly forceful. Stay close to the situation, and as time passes, you will find opportunities to impart eyesight to them.

Sounds like the NTCC has the makings of a cult. Does any NTCC members have the courage to refute these claims. If not maybe you're order not to refute them, that would be very cult like of the NTCC.

http://ntcc.livejournal.com/

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132060 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a book which gives a list of how scientific evidence reveals God's existence...problem is I do not have it with me. I only recall about the earth's position, and if it was forward more than it is to the sun, the earth would burn up; and if we were back further than it is, the earth would freeze. In addition, there were many things that cannot be explained medically or scientifically but are. In trying to locate the information online, I came across this link. I will continue going through this link as time permits...what is your view?
http://www.oddee.com/item_98822.aspx
Statistically, a planet existing in the sweet spot in relation to the sun is high, in relation to the number of suns and planets in the universe. There could be billions of planets with life.
If there was real evidence of a god, it would be front page news. Gaps of knowledge are not evidence. Any real scientist knows this. Many ignorant religious persons are fooled by con artists.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132061 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I have always maintained that something always existed" eternal" ,that something being God . You now think that energy always existed
You have no choice ,if somethind did not always exist , that WOULD MEAN THAT NOTHING CREATED THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING.
I fully understand the reasons why you evaded the differences I pointed out , the properties I attribute to God vs energy's only property being that it can be converted..
The universe came into existence and something brought it into existence
Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make. When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said that he wanted “to know how God created the world.”
Further, it should be understood that every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have. That being the case, how can one believe that an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.
In conclusion, we find that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning, just as the Bible states, and that a Cause must exist that resembles all we know today. As Lord Kelvin, a British scientist once said, "If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God."
I do not follow superstition , calling it that is one of your many excuses for distorting what I state.
You , who are an expert of the double standard are very quick at accusing others of that which only you are guilty
When you cut and paste with no credit to the actual author, you are plagiarizing.

Nothing said here shows me as wrong. You have still failed to show what I said that is of a double standard. What am I guilty of? Try backing up your accusations for a change.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132062 Jun 6, 2014
SNYB wrote:
<quoted text>
But ....we share so much of the same environment as so many others in the animal/mammal kingdom....so umm..no. no that is just not quite 100 percent logical.
By your reasoning, all animals in the same environment should be identical.
You are showing a very poor understanding of evolution.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132063 Jun 6, 2014
SNYB wrote:
<quoted text>
Except for those communication And levels of logic and rationality type things......
So they had a bit smaller brain. Ours evolved larger, thus we gained logic. Is it such a stretch to evolve a larger brain?
Oh, and other animals can communicate. Much of it is body language reading, but it is a form of communication.
Many animals can make complex sounds, but lack the brain size to make the sounds relay highly specific meanings. Yet some do have meanings and are communications.
Again, I see so many similarities with humans and other animals, it is astonishing some feel we are not related.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132064 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
See how quickly you intentionally attribute to me claims I did not make. When did I claim that energy must be created supernaturally?
Your attempt to distort what I stated in order to buttress your irrational argument is evident.
You are noted for using that tactic.
I have already adrressed many times why I believe my position is more plausible.
, it should be understood that every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have.
That being the case, how can one believe that nonlivig ,nonconscious and nonintelligent matter an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are alive , conscious and intelligent full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.
Your supposed logic and reasoning abilities have not persuaded you to think that energy is eternal ,it has forced you to think that because your faith provides you no other choice...
In the meanwhile you must continue conjuring up and inventing nonsensical excuses in order to buttress your irrational and illogical beliefs..
BTW... I see where Pre K failed to respong to this post and elected to respond to what I posted witchetty , which she in turn refused to respond to......
That seems to be the plan ,send some other moniker out to take the heat for what you can't handle and in the process distort the meaning of what was originally posted...
Deceitful,cowardly and conniving behaviour..........
We are energy and matter that can come from energy. We do resemble energy.

You are claiming we now believe in the supernatural if we believe energy is eternal. So it seems to me you are claiming energy must be supernatural. If not, then explain.
And rambling on and on is not helping you at all.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#132065 Jun 6, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Jews don't understand Judaism? That's a funny claim.
<quoted text>
You provided 3 references. They were all junk.
Proverbs 30:4 is a rhetorical question.
Zechariah 2 has the angel talking. There aren't two deities.
Anything from the NT is obvious irrelevant to Judaism.
It is simply undeniable that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not part of Judaism and never have been. If they were, they would have been explicitly mentioned, don't you think?
Not true the OT mentions the Spirit of God hovered above the waters,does not say God ,says his Spirit.... Clear that up for me if you will....
Explain the meaning of this
"Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name if you know?”"
And this one ,which you were not able to manufacture an excuse for, since the Pharisees them selves were not able to answer.

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

“The son of David,” they replied.

43 He said to them,“How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[a]

45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”

46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Don't dismiss with simplistic excuses , show evidence to support your claim

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132066 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't say how many god there are but you rightly expressed a very high number. People try to make many things their gods like...wood, metal, concrete, gold, silver, money, status quo, actor/actresses, position, people's approval, musicians, sex, drugs, SELF, etc. But are any of these things naturally God?
If everyone was assigned a god at birth, complicated wouldn't begin to describe it. God is not the author of confusion and that scenario would be sheer chaos and confusion. To me, it is not about one God being better than the other. If one has something good, sharing it is just the caring thing to do. The relationship between best-friends is unique. In looking for someone I would consider as a best-friend, I would need to know that the person has my best interest at heart, not just their interest alone. We would be able to talk about everything with no judgment but opinions, advice, experience. When I mess up my best-friend would tell me, not to be mean but so I can make corrections because I am accountable for my own actions. The direction of life my best-friend wants to share with me should not include death or anything that can kill, steal or destroy me. A relationship with God reveals who He really is and His intentions; just as a relationship with a best-friend reveals who they are and their intentions. I know without doubt that many things people make into their gods can not offer what is basically good them or their life because the end result is not good.
So in a nutshell, you are claiming your god is better than theirs. Ironic your post is in response to that accusation. You just proved Q. right on target.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132067 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
In heaven, we will not be as we are now.
Presently, we are mind, body (plus spirit for those who have accepted Jesus Christ). After death, one remains in an incorruptible body.
OK, now can you answer my question? Can a person change his mind in heaven. You can just say yes or no.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#132068 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true the OT mentions the Spirit of God hovered above the waters,does not say God ,says his Spirit.... Clear that up for me if you will....
The phrase is translated as 'great wind'. It's merely an element of god. What is there to suggest it is a separate incarnation?
curious wrote:
Explain the meaning of this
"Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name if you know?”"
I just did. It's a rhetorical question.
curious wrote:
And this one ,which you were not able to manufacture an excuse for, since the Pharisees them selves were not able to answer.
I already told you that any NT verses are irrelevant to Judaism.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#132069 Jun 6, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>When you cut and paste with no credit to the actual author, you are plagiarizing.
Nothing said here shows me as wrong. You have still failed to show what I said that is of a double standard. What am I guilty of? Try backing up your accusations for a change.
You are back to your tactic of being evasive.
Your double standard emanates from the fact that whenever I stated that God was eternal and needed no creator you aways wanted to know who created God?
My beliefs were said to be Magic, superstition and delusional.. Now,like " preK" you have been forced to think that energy is eternal for the simple reason that energy can not be created by natural means...
So you are left with 2 choices , either energy was created by a supernatural power, which you have described as magic and superstition Or that energy is a supernatural power and needs no creator.
So , that which you mocked you now have to accept as valid...
Of course you will conjure up an irrational excuse in orderf to justify your illconceived beliefs ,, However the facts and your postings confirm your double standard.
To you,supernatural exists as a matter of convenience....
Since you have claimed that God needs a creator , then maybe you can explain who created energy,,,,Or better yet, why does energy not need a creator?
Does energy posses the ability to self exist and create , is it alive ,conscious and intelligent.
And if it isn't, how was it able to bring life, intelligence and consciousness into existence?
Reemember , the effect can not be greater than the cause.
Since you are a Science addict , please explain yourself in Scientific terms , not ill conceived excuses and STRAWMAN arguments
curious

Ocoee, FL

#132070 Jun 6, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>The idea of eternal energy defies no scientific principles. It is why it thought to be likely.
Energy is not supernatural. Just because it is not fully known how life came to be, it does not mean the energy was magic. Again you simply insert magic to anything that is not known. It is surely how your god was invented. The ancients did not know much science, so they invented gods to put into the gaps. You are doing the same.
You are dancing aroud like a chiucken with his head cut off and conjecturing up ill conceived and irrational arguments
A reasonable person who knows that energy can not be created by natural means is left with only 2 conclusions , It was either created bu supernatural means or it posseses the power to exist of it's own accord ., has life within itself,,,,That is not supernatural ?
I did not insert magic , YOU did... So it is not known how energy came to be, yet you claim it to be eternal and not needing a creator.
So, mindless ,nonintelligent ,nonliving and nonconscious energy can only convert itself into matter..However , according to your beliefs, once converted to nonliving,nonintelligent and nonconscious matter, it has the ability to convert/create this matter into living,intelligent and conscious matter....
However ,it has been established that energy can ONLY be converted, it has no ability to create.....
That is the Science fiction that holds your faith together, for which you must conjure up irrational excuses in an attempt to hold it together.....You must have seasons tickets to Walt Disneys magical kingdom.....

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#132071 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
Hell or the lake of fire was not created for mankind...it is was created for satan, his demons, death, etc.
Revelation tells us that "the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters" will be thrown into the lake of fire. Sounds like plenty of mankind are going to be tortured.
chinwendu1 wrote:
I would ask, how can someone tell another they love them, without dealing with what is killing them?
Yet it was God himself who introduced sin into the world of Adam and Eve by putting the greatest supervillain in the universe into the Garden of Eden.
chinwendu1 wrote:
God has dealt with it through Jesus Christ...and life is free to all.
If sin needed to be dealt with then why deal with it by plotting and scheming to have your son killed? An omnipotent god could eradicate sin by snapping his fingers.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#132072 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No deceptions regarding God....the good, bad and the ugly were shared in the accounts of the Bible.
If one wanted to deceive, why not just tell the good stories and ditch all the bad ones...?
The Bible itself tells us how God deceived people.

Deception is usually associated with the devil, but no less a person than Jeremiah, one of the great biblical prophets, attributes deception to God.

" Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul."

Jeremiah 4:10

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#132073 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
You been posting that pig slop for quite a while ..Your opinions are worthless and invalid.
You now claim that energy is eternal, you had no choice as your faith has you contradicting your self ..You now believe in the supernatural , which you once claimed was Magic and superstition....
The fruits of atheism, contradiction of your faith..........
Much like your " British Heritage" where Tea is King and you claim to be a coffee drinker.
I am not going to ask you for the time , instead I will tell you what time it is.
It is time you got lost and take your gibberish with you...
As they say in London ; Good riddance to bad rubbish
It's plain to see that it annoys you.

That's why I saved it to make it easy to just paste it in everytime you try and elevate the biblical creation myth above any of the many other creation myths.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#132074 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The article is entitled, "10 Scientists Who Claim to Have Proof about the Existence of God".
It is only the article I am reading...the lewd advertisements or any other article, I paid no attention. I apologize to you and all if offended.
No offence taken.

Truth be told, I found it amusing.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#132075 Jun 6, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Over half of the "Theories" on Big bang... require an outside source...
Something from an alternate universe....
YES! there is an alternate universe... the One God Lives in!
Over half?

How many different Big Bang theories are there?

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